Racing Point F1 Team has announced an expansion of its long-standing partnership with Austrian water technology specialist, BWT - Best Water Technology.
This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
for me the biggest question in this debate is - why should mercedes risk anything in that case and make something illegal with nearly no outcome besides a strong RP?
This make no sense for me.
This probably saved RP a lot of wind tunnel time. Merc could use it for testing their designs for new rules. With their resources and extra wind tunnel time, they could get a head start and cement their domination for another 4-5 years.
Also the money, though I think it’s not a very big consideration.
Besides, Toto has a share in RP, doesn’t he? And he reportedly has a close relationship with stroll. Honestly, if it were anything other than F1, we would’ve had a proper investigation 4 months ago.
I don't buy it. Toto would be risking being banned from the sport. Would ruin any chances of holding a senior position in any team/body involved in motorsports and possibly even civil proceedings from Mercedes parent company to recover damages into the hundreds of millions.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren
Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻♂️
for me the biggest question in this debate is - why should mercedes risk anything in that case and make something illegal with nearly no outcome besides a strong RP?
This make no sense for me.
This probably saved RP a lot of wind tunnel time. Merc could use it for testing their designs for new rules. With their resources and extra wind tunnel time, they could get a head start and cement their domination for another 4-5 years.
Also the money, though I think it’s not a very big consideration.
Besides, Toto has a share in RP, doesn’t he? And he reportedly has a close relationship with stroll. Honestly, if it were anything other than F1, we would’ve had a proper investigation 4 months ago.
I don't buy it. Toto would be risking being banned from the sport. Would ruin any chances of holding a senior position in any team/body involved in motorsports and possibly even civil proceedings from Mercedes parent company to recover damages into the hundreds of millions.
I’m not saying he’s done it or he’d do it for personal reasons. Was just listing out probable motives.
But, the idea of another era of dominance is juicy enough to help RP, especially if they thought they could get away with it. And they actually look like they’d get away with it, if they had done something under handed.
If we know one thing, it is that Mercedes is very clever. They have a good organization and they know what they do. So IF they helped RP than they also know how to hide it very well. Otherwise they would not do something like that. I don't think that we ever find out what has been going on.
Doesn't Toto own some Mercedes shares (from the F1 team, not the road car division)? He also bought stakes in Aston Martin not so long ago, which really spices things up for people who smell controversy.
What if, and it is a pretty big if, Toto secretly shared Mercedes information with RP in order to give them a boost for when Aston Martin joins the party. And when the new regulations come, he will own shares on two of the potentially strongest teams in Formula 1. There's huge financial benefits in it for him.
It's no worse than when other teams copied/used a year old car/concept
Sauber with Ferrari
Super Aguri with Honda
STR with RBR
Haas with Ferrari
But you have to be a fool and dull to support and argue for teams that do this. RP are not a supportable team right now. They have lost nearly everything that made them affable throughout all the previous owner history. It may be a smart move, that has yet to be seen, we will see at the end of the season. Not next race or the race after.
No need for personal attack; guy just quoted view on team performance.
If F1 is a place of innovation & Intellect; it's also place of jugaad & survival. They took the opportunity of 'Gap Year' to bridge the gap with top teams with this approach. It’s a two way sword & RP has to live with it.
Now stop moaning & get on with it
I am getting on with it, I see you did notice that by the fact you are trying to start an argument. Quit your whining and pointless conjecture and take a sip of your BWT water.
It's no worse than when other teams copied/used a year old car/concept
Sauber with Ferrari
Super Aguri with Honda
STR with RBR
Haas with Ferrari
But you have to be a fool and dull to support and argue for teams that do this. RP are not a supportable team right now. They have lost nearly everything that made them affable throughout all the previous owner history. It may be a smart move, that has yet to be seen, we will see at the end of the season. Not next race or the race after.
No need for personal attack; guy just quoted view on team performance.
If F1 is a place of innovation & Intellect; it's also place of jugaad & survival. They took the opportunity of 'Gap Year' to bridge the gap with top teams with this approach. It’s a two way sword & RP has to live with it.
Now stop moaning & get on with it
I am getting on with it, I see you did notice that by the fact you are trying to start an argument. Quit your whining and pointless conjecture and take a sip of your BWT water.
No need for personal attack; guy just quoted view on team performance.
If F1 is a place of innovation & Intellect; it's also place of jugaad & survival. They took the opportunity of 'Gap Year' to bridge the gap with top teams with this approach. It’s a two way sword & RP has to live with it.
Now stop moaning & get on with it
I am getting on with it, I see you did notice that by the fact you are trying to start an argument. Quit your whining and pointless conjecture and take a sip of your BWT water.
Sip some 'Orange' juice & cool down.
Seriously guys, the trash talk is embarrassing — Joey Tribbiani
Scarabs has provided his opinion on the protest via Peter Windsor's Youtube channel.
@f1elvis on youtube talks about it not beeing a violation from Mercedes sharing drawings, they would have no interest in doing that. But RP violating British patent law because the parts are so similar that they could not have designed it themselves. I thing this is very interesting because aparently you can copy things to almost excactly match the original just from photos and modern software. It is brilliantly done by RP, but not the intention of ruling in F1. If so they shuld just make it a spec series.
I do not belive that Toro Rosso, Haas or Sauber have ever been even close to be so similar to a last years model as RP this year. It is scary if you merge the 2 cars on pictures
But RP violating British patent law because the parts are so similar that they could not have designed it themselves.
The aero surfaces we see are not patented so that's a red herring. They might be a straight copy but only Mercedes can choose to take legal action for breach of copyright and I really don't see them being interested in doing that.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Scarabs has provided his opinion on the protest via Peter Windsor's Youtube channel.
@f1elvis on youtube talks about it not beeing a violation from Mercedes sharing drawings, they would have no interest in doing that. But RP violating British patent law because the parts are so similar that they could not have designed it themselves. I thing this is very interesting because aparently you can copy things to almost excactly match the original just from photos and modern software. It is brilliantly done by RP, but not the intention of ruling in F1. If so they shuld just make it a spec series.
I do not belive that Toro Rosso, Haas or Sauber have ever been even close to be so similar to a last years model as RP this year. It is scary if you merge the 2 cars on pictures
I am going to point out that 'from photos alone' does not really equal as neccesarily correct.
For example, there are phones or phone software out there that can generate 3D images from using your phone's camera and turning it around an object. So just by using your phone around a car part could actually generate a basic 3D model.
Next, we have the issue of aerodynamics turning things into a 'dime a dozen'. The reason for example that commuter cars nowadays look so much alike has to do with rules, regulations, and demand. From safety reasons to environmental reasons, there is an ever greater demand for cars to be as 'aerodynamic' as possible, and with engine developments reaching the point of 'diminishing returns', or let's say 'the top' - in other words, engines don't make the difference that thay once made since all is more or less the same - and thanks to computer aided design and windtunnels we have reached the 'max' of aerodynamic benefit, then it's only logical that all cars in a certain 'class' (small economy for example) start looking the same.
Now concider the fact that ALL F1 cars in the field look very similar nowadays, compared to let's say the 90's, and it's just a matter of time before stuff gets eerily similar.
Again, i'm not saying that it's not obvious that there is more at play here, but at the same time, it's not all that black and white really.
What i'm also rather surprised off is why on earth the RP has so much backlash over a 2019 Mercedes?
We had the HAAS VF-18 which was a BLATANT COPY of the Ferrari SF70H.
We had/have ToroRosso/AlfaTauri cars as CLEAR COPIES of their RedBull big brethren.
And NOW we're falling over Racing Point?
Yes it might be a bit more on the nose with the RP, but it's no different to the Haas and ToroRosso examples.
If Racing Point had only ever so slightly changed the nose, or changed the sidepod inlets, nobody would be talking.
Since that is not the case, i think that only shows how balanced and as such, sensitive the aero must be.
But in the end, i think there is a much bigger picture nobody is adressing and which quite frankly imho is a facepalm issue.
We're talking about how copycat and similar the RP and Merc look.
When in 2022, we're gonna get NEAR SPEC F1 CARS!!
What are we actually discussing here then? RP essentially did a smart move and is 'ahead of the curve' if you may.
And their move only shows that it's a smart move.
What do we prefer? Racing Point to be like Williams, at the back of the field struggling?
Again, both Alfa Tauri and Haas 'invented' Copycat design. HELL, Haas LITERALLY admits using Ferrari parts from their concept, and were at the position RP is in now when they debuted.
It's a lot of unneccesary hating if you ask me.
I say, kudos to them. I hope this nonsense is done and dusted soon.
If for some shock reason FIA decides it 'illegal' then i'll throw my table out the window, and FIA will NEVER hold any means of credibility in my book.
If Racing Point gets demoted 'Illegal' and then 'punished', then FIA MUST do the same with BOTH Haas and Alfa Tauri.
In the end though, this whole 'protest' probably is nothing more then getting a clear answer on what CAN, and surely it is with the eye on the coming years.
Renault NEEDS a 'sattelite' team (B-team), so what better way to make sure everything is clear as day and then make a deal with Haas or Williams (or another upcoming team) and give them last season's car.
The verdict on the matter will also have impact on how much MORE ToroRosso/AlfaTauri can use from RedBull.
And offcourse, that goes for all the teams.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Doesn't Toto own some Mercedes shares (from the F1 team, not the road car division)? He also bought stakes in Aston Martin not so long ago, which really spices things up for people who smell controversy.
What if, and it is a pretty big if, Toto secretly shared Mercedes information with RP in order to give them a boost for when Aston Martin joins the party. And when the new regulations come, he will own shares on two of the potentially strongest teams in Formula 1. There's huge financial benefits in it for him.
He would be absolutely crazy to do that, considering what the personal cost (financial and reputational) would be to him if found out, which let's face it, would not be difficult for anyone to do if they investigated.
Already a very wealthy man, so I don't think he would even need the money, unless he's got a secret gambling problem
There is some degree of collusion between Mercedes and Racing Point. Racing Point is a useless team.They cant do anything on their own, All they have is big money. They poach and buy technical staff & copy parts. I hope RP get disqualified from the standings so that their points go to Williams.
There is some degree of collusion between Mercedes and Racing Point. Racing Point is a useless team.They cant do anything on their own, All they have is big money. They poach and buy technical staff & copy parts. I hope RP get disqualified from the standings so that their points go to Williams.
I keep seeing reports about Vettel joining Aston Martin next season and Racing Point being able to
"exercise a clause in Checos contract" (they called him Checo)
Im sure these are just your typical rumors and fanboy writing going on from wishful gossip sights.
Because if Aston Martin plan on having Vettel next year. We wont know until after its a done deal
thats the only reason i dont trust those sites. The only man I trust to predict these thing without
it being made official by any team is Eddie Jordan.
However I do have 1 question:
Does anyone know which special clauses exist in Sergio Perez's contract?
Im aware of the one about Sergio can leave the team if he wants
to leave the team early if he gets an offer from one of the big teams.
But does the team have (in a way) the same inverse response clause where say like:
"Yeah okey Sergio but if we(Racing Point) can sign a 'World Champion Driver' then we too can terminate you early"
