Racing Point RP20

[Raleigh]

I have a feeling they'll already be lagging after 3-4 races. I just don't see a way they'll be able to develop the car to such extent that they could stay close to Red Bull and/or ahead of the middle field. That Mercedes is not a simple car.

On the contrary, Racing Point (Force India) has always been really good at inseason development and if inspiration runs dry they can almost literally borrow updates from Mercedes. Already did that in fact, Mercedes had a new rear wing in Australia and Racing Point turned up with their own version in Austria.

I'd argue Racing Point is still working out setup on the RP20 and that is their weakness right now, but they were clearly successful in copying and understanding the aero concept because when the RP20 got going properly the car was blindingly fast, Perez carving through the field looked like a Mercedes that started out of position.

[Rodak]

Considering that Bottas and Hamilton left a couple of noses scattered around different circuits (Australia, Mexico, Germany, Austria) I think most teams are pretty much aware of the internal layout by now.

It's not so much the internal layout, it's the things that really affect strength of the laminate such as ply orientation, ply buildup, honeycomb structures, material choice, etc. Pretty difficult to figure that out from looking at a broken nose.

[nacho]

I think they have enough experience to figure out reasonable structure for honeycom and ply layup.

[Sieper]

I have a feeling they'll already be lagging after 3-4 races. I just don't see a way they'll be able to develop the car to such extent that they could stay close to Red Bull and/or ahead of the middle field. That Mercedes is not a simple car.

On the contrary, Racing Point (Force India) has always been really good at inseason development and if inspiration runs dry they can almost literally borrow updates from Mercedes. Already did that in fact, Mercedes had a new rear wing in Australia and Racing Point turned up with their own version in Austria.

I'd argue Racing Point is still working out setup on the RP20 and that is their weakness right now, but they were clearly successful in copying and understanding the aero concept because when the RP20 got going properly the car was blindingly fast, Perez carving through the field looked like a Mercedes that started out of position.

That’s because it is. A carbon copy. Pun intended. I can’t believe we are sitting here debating how well they did it. After redbull turned up with 4 cars we made rules against it and now we have 4 mercedi. Haas went far but even Ferrari didn’t dare to go 99,9%. They at least left some minor variations in there.

RP Will now always have the current engine and driveline as the Merc team already. They even copy the in season development (from all the beautifull pictures the took of the rear wing on thursday in Australia apparently) and they will never be more then a season behind with the car. In fact, tub is frozen for next year.

Apparently the only thing you have to do these days is leave no paper trail and you are good to go. Rules do not exist (sorry, are skillfully avoided).

[erikejw]

Can some mod please merge this and the Mercedes W10(Merc 2019) thread.

It would make it easier to follow the evolution of different concepts over time, understand which areas of the car stay the same and which that has a rapid development pace, and lastly to be able to better understand and compare track specific alterations year to year.

[Just_a_fan]

Can some mod please merge this and the Mercedes W10(Merc 2019) thread.

It's not the W10 so it would be the wrong thing to do.

[PlatinumZealot]

Can some mod please merge this and the Mercedes W10(Merc 2019) thread.

It would make it easier to follow the evolution of different concepts over time, understand which areas of the car stay the same and which that has a rapid development pace, and lastly to be able to better understand and compare track specific alterations year to year.

Lol

[billamend]

Can some mod please merge this and the Mercedes W10(Merc 2019) thread.

It would make it easier to follow the evolution of different concepts over time, understand which areas of the car stay the same and which that has a rapid development pace, and lastly to be able to better understand and compare track specific alterations year to year.

[ScrewCaptain27]

Will we get this s**t over and done with? The RP20 and W10 might look the same on the outside, but are very different on the inside as we can clearly see on this thread. The front suspension internals are very different. Cooling package is different. They are rather important elements if you ask me.

[JordanMugen]

Will we get this s**t over and done with? The RP20 and W10 might look the same on the outside, but are very different on the inside as we can clearly see on this thread. The front suspension internals are very different. Cooling package is different. They are rather important elements if you ask me.

Precisely!

The notion that Racing Point did not engineer the structure of the car, cooling system and kinematics of the suspension is preposterous. Even a smaller team like Toro Rosso had a slim nose in 2017 while Red Bull did not, a slim nose is not impossibly difficult to engineer for the crash test. As an experienced F1 team, Racing Point they are more than capable of these things.

[Emag]

Will we get this s**t over and done with? The RP20 and W10 might look the same on the outside, but are very different on the inside as we can clearly see on this thread. The front suspension internals are very different. Cooling package is different. They are rather important elements if you ask me.

The different parts you mentioned are listed parts and are supposed to be built by them, otherwise the car would be illegal.

The actual truth is that there is barely anything unique on this car. They copied whatever they could from Mercedes. The stuff they couldn't copy, they recreated to match them as closely as possible, and the stuff that mustn't be copied to stay within the rules, they made themselves.

It's as simple as that. I personally don't like this approach at all, but whether people like it or not doesn't matter at all in my opinion. If what they did is fine with the FIA, then they will get away with it even if all of us don't agree, because at the end of the day, it's the FIA decision that matters the most.

They will be racing with an already proven aero concept. With better understanding of the car, they will be able to extract more out of it. They probably still don't know how that car works. What happens to it under load etc. When they figure that out, and match the mechanical setup accordingly, then I don't see any reason why it shouldn't perform nearly as well as the 2019 Mercedes even with those different bits you mentioned.

Edit: And to be honest, being nearly as fast as the 2019 Mercedes is a huge advantage. That car was an absolute beast, especially in the early part of 2019. The 2019 car is probably good enough to win races this year and if you are anywhere near that car in terms of performance as a midfielder, then you are in for a good season.

[billamend]

Will we get this s**t over and done with?

No, we won't. RP is cheating and I hope they are appropriately penalised!

[SiLo]

Will we get this s**t over and done with?

No, we won't. RP is cheating and I hope they are appropriately penalised!

Please provide some evidence that shows they are in fact, cheating.

[JRindt]

Will we get this s**t over and done with? The RP20 and W10 might look the same on the outside, but are very different on the inside as we can clearly see on this thread. The front suspension internals are very different. Cooling package is different. They are rather important elements if you ask me.

Precisely!

The notion that Racing Point did not engineer the structure of the car, cooling system and kinematics of the suspension is preposterous. Even a smaller team like Toro Rosso had a slim nose in 2017 while Red Bull did not, a slim nose is not impossibly difficult to engineer for the crash test. As an experienced F1 team, Racing Point they are more than capable of these things.

What do you mean by front suspension internals? Doesn’t RP buy suspension straight from Mercedes??

[Big Tea]

Will we get this s**t over and done with? The RP20 and W10 might look the same on the outside, but are very different on the inside as we can clearly see on this thread. The front suspension internals are very different. Cooling package is different. They are rather important elements if you ask me.

The different parts you mentioned are listed parts and are supposed to be built by them, otherwise the car would be illegal.

The actual truth is that there is barely anything unique on this car. They copied whatever they could from Mercedes. The stuff they couldn't copy, they recreated to match them as closely as possible, and the stuff that mustn't be copied to stay within the rules, they made themselves.

It's as simple as that. I personally don't like this approach at all, but whether people like it or not doesn't matter at all in my opinion. If what they did is fine with the FIA, then they will get away with it even if all of us don't agree, because at the end of the day, it's the FIA decision that matters the most.

They will be racing with an already proven aero concept. With better understanding of the car, they will be able to extract more out of it. They probably still don't know how that car works. What happens to it under load etc. When they figure that out, and match the mechanical setup accordingly, then I don't see any reason why it shouldn't perform nearly as well as the 2019 Mercedes even with those different bits you mentioned.

Edit: And to be honest, being nearly as fast as the 2019 Mercedes is a huge advantage. That car was an absolute beast, especially in the early part of 2019. The 2019 car is probably good enough to win races this year and if you are anywhere near that car in terms of performance as a midfielder, then you are in for a good season.

Nit picking I agree, but there is nothing that ' mustn't be copied to stay within the rules '. Its that mustn't be designed or manufactured by another competing team. Its not the copying that is the problem its where it was made and designed. Haas have their car built by Dalara and if they completely reverse engineered this years Ferrari and got it built it would be legal. If any of the listed parts actually came from Ferrari, or even were designed by Haas and manufactured by Ferrari that is not allowed.

Not picking on Haas and Ferrari, just using it as a comparison. It could have been Red Bull and STR.