[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[JordanMugen]

If Perez is being dropped by Aston Martin as rumoured, surely Red Bull have to pounce and secure Perez's services for 2021?

He is the perfect second driver -- fast (enough), very consistent, rarely gets into team-mate scuffles (apart from with Ocon, lol)... Perez ticks some boxes that Hulkenberg and even Vettel didn't quite tick. Surely Red Bull have to consider Perez?

[ME4ME]

To be fair Mercedes said during the winter they were going to be bold with the engine. Then around pre-season testing all kind of questions appeared regarding their reliability. Luckily for them the season started only months later. But what ever way you put it they are doing a mighty impressive job.

They are good at this formula from the begining and have good experience about this pu. When others trying to find power they were trying to make it perfect. Maybe they knew there is a better concept but wanted to squeeze everything from current one as long as they are ahead.

Thinking a bit further back, already last summer there were rumors that Mercedes would make the biggest step since 2014 with their power unit. We obviously don't have the exact numbers, but I'm very very impressed so far. Also strategically it's a masterstroke to be able to deliver such competitive unit this year. Soon the power units' specification will be frozen. Honda really needs to work increadibly hard the coming six to twelve months to make as much gains as possible. They are in a good state so I'm sure they can do that. What they do not need right now is the Honda board reducing funds to the project because of Covid and uncertainty right now though, that would be bad timing. Hopefully they'll commit to extent their stay in F1 and further increase their partnership with the Red Bull teams pretty soon. That would be good.

[epo]

If Perez is being dropped by Aston Martin as rumoured, surely Red Bull have to pounce and secure Perez's services for 2021?

He is the perfect second driver -- fast (enough), very consistent, rarely gets into team-mate scuffles (apart from with Ocon, lol)... Perez ticks some boxes that Hulkenberg and even Vettel didn't quite tick. Surely Red Bull have to consider Perez?

TBH Perez makes the same mistakes as Vettel these days, and even Max on his worse days. Doubt they will take him, also don't see why. With Perez overtaking I'm never sure if he will succeed or crash
This season might already be lost so I'm sure they will give Albon more time to adjust, the car is just very sensitive to drive well.

[Bill]

In hot conditions the Redbull Honda had great pace even without new updates brought on second race i think people are overstating Mercedes pu performance.if we assume hypothetical case that Honda is down by 20 hp that the the minimum requirement Redbull demanded from Honda.they got what they wanted they supposed to cover the shortfall with their great chassis.

Last year Mercedes won both championship with significant power deficit to Ferrari of more than just a mere 20 hp which gives about 0.2 tenth in quali and less in the race.

[etusch]

In hot conditions the Redbull Honda had great pace even without new updates brought on second race i think people are overstating Mercedes pu performance.if we assume hypothetical case that Honda is down by 20 hp that the the minimum requirement Redbull demanded from Honda.they got what they wanted they supposed to cover the shortfall with their great chassis.

Last year Mercedes won both championship with significant power deficit to Ferrari of more than just a mere 20 hp which gives about 0.2 tenth in quali and less in the race.

agree with you. But I want to see Honda as best Pu out there.

[Starscreamer]

If Perez is being dropped by Aston Martin as rumoured, surely Red Bull have to pounce and secure Perez's services for 2021?

He is the perfect second driver -- fast (enough), very consistent, rarely gets into team-mate scuffles (apart from with Ocon, lol)... Perez ticks some boxes that Hulkenberg and even Vettel didn't quite tick. Surely Red Bull have to consider Perez?

Normally I will say yes... but why didn't Red Bull choose for Vettel instead of Perez?
I think the choose there own Red Bull junior pool (Albon, Gasly, Kvyat)

[etusch]

After two races at the same circuit, are you looking forward to going to a new track?
Max: “Yes, I think two weeks driving on the same track is enough but Red Bull did make a great event for us. It was nice to have the opportunity to drive at the same track twice and be able to test different set-ups on the cars and correlate the data from back to back races, but I think we are all ready for a new track now. After such a tough first weekend it was good to be on the podium on Sunday and it was nice to have some sort of reward for the Team. Now I’m just looking ahead to this weekend as Hungary is a really fun track to drive with these high downforce cars so let’s see what we can do.”

Looking ahead, what are your main focuses for the race this weekend?
“I will of course try to do the best that I can and see how competitive we are again against Mercedes, and of course the others. The track is more technical than Austria. There are more corners and if you get one corner wrong, you are not well positioned for the next one, especially in sector two. So you really have to work hard on the car set-up, that is always key. We need a really stable balance, but of course a car that responds well going into corners.”

Aston Martin Red Bull Racing have won the fastest pit stop twice now, is it good to see the crew come back so strong?
“Yes, it is great to see, it’s always nice when the guys can give me such a fast pit stop. I mean I like to see the guys during the race but of course I want to get away from them as fast as possible in the pit stop! They all work super hard and I think that shows every Sunday.”

https://www.verstappen.com/en/article/4 ... Em4WIuj13Y

[Wynters]

This season might already be lost so I'm sure they will give Albon more time to adjust, the car is just very sensitive to drive well.

People want instant success and seem to forget that Albon has had only 11 races in the car (and with the team as a whole), so barely even half a season at Red Bull. He's only just completed his rookie season, which he started at the last minute so limiting his prep time even more. If Hamilton hadn't punted him in Brazil, he'd have scored the same number of points as Verstappen over those last 9 races. I consider matching Verstappen across nearly half a season to be at least 'acceptable' for an under prepared rookie with barely any prep time for F1 and absolutely no prep time in the Red Bull (how many laps do people do in testing and the sims over the winter to prepare for the season?).

If we compare Verstappen dropping into the team 'mid-season', he'd already had two full pre-seasons and a full F1 season under his belt, was only up against Ricciardo and was still outscored by nearly 30 points. It takes time to adjust. To F1, to a new team and to a new car.

On top of that, Albon doesn't bring any bad publicity (obviously at fault for crashing into people / starting fights) and doesn't even mention to the media that he's effectively driving a spare parts car for Verstappen (can't take risks that might damage parts Max needs and will always be the one to go without if there aren't sufficient upgrades). The car has not and will not be designed to take his preferences into account if they are contrary to Verstappen's and Albon also won't complain when he's sacrificed to increase Verstappen's result (if the Red Bulls were running 1-2 in Austria, with Albon in the lead, do any of us believe they'd have finished the race in that order)?

This season Ferrari are nowhere. Mercedes seem to be out in front (two races at the same track is a pretty small sample size, but it doesn't look good), so what's to be gained by changing the drivers, again, especially for someone old enough to actually make waves? Does anyone fondly remember the 'banter' between Webber and Vettel/Horner? RBR will finish second in the WCC regardless of who they had in the cars. Give Albon some time.

[nzjrs]

Great post Wynters!

[ENGINE TUNER]

I don't understand Fia reason for cutting floor why can't they just play around with the size or angle of rear wing.Pirelli has proven multiple times that they are not upto the task the opportunity to bring Michelin was there but for some reason still stuck with Pirelli.does Fia really want to improve the show because for some reason they always shoot themself in the foot.

Ever since the advent of f1 overtaking group men with magic recipe that going to make f1 great against f1 have been jumping from one rule change to another looking for that holy grail of entertainment perfection.Rules are supposed to last for 5 years,but top brass are getting restless.i think it's time they give and stop wasting everyone's money.

It is physically easier and much cheaper to just trim a bit off the floor rather than make a whole new rear wing. I'm not saying that I agree with the move, but the move was done in a way to the cheapest way possible to cut down downforce for the sake of the poor teams at the back of the grid.

Pirelli and what the supply to F1 are garbage, but they send fat checks to FIA and FOzm, so the tenders are made to suit them. Quid pro quo.

[ENGINE TUNER]

It's sad really, that every measure to 'bring the field closer' and 'make driving more exiting' has consistently screwed non Mercedes... eh, sorry, high rake cars, thereby making the competition in front less attractive.

Red Bull has had every opportunity to change concepts and go to a “low rake” car... With the amount of resources they have, I’m sure that they investigated the possibility and they stuck with their high rake because they saw more potential... If not, it would mean that they didn’t want to change their concept knowing that it was the inferior one, which I wouldn’t expect them to do.


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Well, aside from difficulties, it just doesn't make sense that when one team is dominating, you alter the regulations such that it's even more difficult for competitors to catch up.

Is that what the 2017 aero rule changes were about(some of the biggest in F1 history, and the first designed towards faster cars)? Or is it that Merc just did a better job? Regardless of the direction of the rule changes, some of which(like the 2017 changes) lead by Red Bull themselves, Merc are just doing a better job. Did everyone forget the early 2017 aero correlation problems at Red bull?

[ENGINE TUNER]

I don't understand Fia reason for cutting floor why can't they just play around with the size or angle of rear wing.Pirelli has proven multiple times that they are not upto the task the opportunity to bring Michelin was there but for some reason still stuck with Pirelli.does Fia really want to improve the show because for some reason they always shoot themself in the foot.

Ever since the advent of f1 overtaking group men with magic recipe that going to make f1 great against f1 have been jumping from one rule change to another looking for that holy grail of entertainment perfection.Rules are supposed to last for 5 years,but top brass are getting restless.i think it's time they give and stop wasting everyone's money.

they say that but I think those word are only in their mouth and pocket. In reality they don't have an intention to bring close fight to the sport. If they were sincere with that they would immediately left token system when they realise that Mercedes pu is much better than others. They would ban oil burn because of 1 second qualification difference before waiting someone find out the trick. But they didn't. For sure they have zero intention to bring competition.
I give same example everytime. When Marquez dominates the motogp season Rossi talked about Honda bike's braking ability. That times there was a rule about front brake, allowing bigger diameter discs for some track and smaller diameter for remained ones. With smaller diameter Honda was better than yamaha but with bigger yamaha was as fast as Honda.
Rossi said that Iwould like to brake like Honda but we can't when we use smaller discs. Maybe one race later, maybe right away dorna allowed bigger diameter discs for whole season. Then Yamaha were close.to Honda every race.
when dorna introduced open ecu they give open ecu users + 5 lt gasoline and a softer compound tyre which is not usable for others. By this way Ducati is there in competition.
Those are good examples if someone tries to make it competitive and formula administration is good example for lier.

The tokens held back Merc more than anyone else. What the tokens did was discourage a lot of small changes and favored bigger changes which is what the teams that were far behind in pu performance needed. The thing that held back the trailing pu manufactures were the ever increasing reliability requirements.

No, the FIA aren't really focusing on making the fight closer, that is the responsibility of the teams, the FIAs responsibility is safety first and foremost. Secondly they have been asked by the teams to lower the cost of running a team. It is nobody else's fault that red bull and Ferrari spend just as much as Merc but keep making mistakes.

[Sieper]

Verstappen was never off the pace of Ricciardo by 5-7 tenths though. Albon has been and still is. He is Also outqualified everytime their cars (technical punishments for engine changes) allowed them to be in Q3 (bar Japan, where they were equal but as Verstappen set his time earlier that officially counts as outqualified as well). Also, Albon could have won Austria 2020, true, but Verstappen was way in front of him on P2 already when he was out of contention due to no fault of himselve. That kind of point tallying is not very fair.

I like Albon, very much, To me he always was the better choice then Gasly or Kvyat but might it be that Wynters left these two quite critical points out for a reason. In the 16 season Ricciardo got the newer parts and engine first and Albon too has been using both spec noses. They both used the old spec this last race. It is not like Max gets best only.

[Just_a_fan]

This season might already be lost so I'm sure they will give Albon more time to adjust, the car is just very sensitive to drive well.

People want instant success [...] Give Albon some time.

Very nicely put. Have an upvote on me.

[Wynters]

Verstappen was never off the pace of Ricciardo by 5-7 tenths though. Albon has been and still is.

True. But Verstappen is an outstandingly quick driver. Would we really expect the gap for Ricciardo vs Verstappen to be the benchmark for Verstappen vs Albon? Especially given all the extra disadvantages Albon has compared to Verstappen when he was in a similar position.

He is Also outqualified everytime their cars (technical punishments for engine changes) allowed them to be in Q3 (bar Japan, where they were equal but as Verstappen set his time earlier that officially counts as outqualified as well).

The scenario you are suggesting is that when Albon comes in with:-
1) Barely any F1 prep time,
2) Barely any F1 experience,
3) Dropped into a car he'd never driven before,
4) In a team he doesn't know and that is focussed entirely on his team mate,
5) His team mate is driving a car custom designed for him,
6) Which he has already had 1,000 laps of real experience in plus who-knows-how-many virtual laps,
7) and gets all the best parts and strategies first.

And the benchmark shouldn't be that he brings home as many points as his team leader, but that he puts in the same or better performances across the board?

Name one driver from the last thirty years who could overcome all those handicaps and achieve that?

Verstappen had fewer of those handicaps (only 3, 5&7?) and was up against a slower team mate and didn't manage it. That's not an attack on Verstappen, that's using him to set a realistic bar.

Also, Albon could have won Austria 2020, true, but Verstappen was way in front of him on P2 already when he was out of contention due to no fault of himselve. That kind of point tallying is not very fair.

My apologies, I obviously wasn't very clear. I was trying to present a theoretical scenario.

In this imaginary scenario, it's the first race of the 2020 season and RBR think they've got a competitive car for both WCC and WDC. The teams are just about to enter the final pitstop phase at the Red Bull Ring (Verstappen's and RBR's home GP) and Albon is leading a RBR 1-2. Do any one of us think the team doesn't engineer a position swap*? And, if they do, does anyone think Albon complains on the radio or in the press conference afterwards?

Albon too has been using both spec noses. They both used the old spec this last race. It is not like Max gets best only.

For the first race, RBR clearly thought the new nose was faster. Once Verstappen broke his nose, who used Albon's nose for qualifying and the race?

With so many races back-to-back and the factory working under such pressure that they didn't even have spares for the first race, do we think there are always going to be two copies of each upgrade part produced simultaneously and, if not, who do we think gets the faster version of the car?**

*As Verstappen is the best chance at a WDC and it doesn't diminish WCC points the swap would be the smart thing to do and I would do exactly the same in their shoes.

** Again, this is the smart play. F1 isn't about giving Verstappen and Albon equal cars and seeing how close they are, it's about maximising the finishing position of RBR as a team in WCC and their lead driver in the WDC.

- Edited to reflect Sieper's point below.