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Nope actually it should be copy and paste everything so everyone is driving same car, then we can separate the men from the boys.
But that's called F2...
Yes but why cant we have the same races as F2 with cars 6 seconds faster? I can't recall an F2 season where one team and driver is expected to be on podium by default
I'm fully on board with Renault's protest, F1 should be battleground of ideas and concepts not a copy paste championship.
Nope actually it should be copy and paste everything so everyone is driving same car, then we can separate the men from the boys.
FIA should give the Merc design from last year to all teams so they can close the gap.
No, if you want this you can watch other series, F1 is always a battle of ideas and concepts and the drive to create the ultimate synergy between man and machine on the race track.
bauc wrote:I'm fully on board with Renault's protest, F1 should be battleground of ideas and concepts not a copy paste championship.
Renault has a right to protest it, but I personally don’t feel that their strategy is bad or illegal... As long as they are within the regulations, everything is fair game
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It might be within the regulation book, but my point is more towards the spirit of the sport which always has been the battle of different ideas/concepts and strategies in order to win.
bauc wrote:I'm fully on board with Renault's protest, F1 should be battleground of ideas and concepts not a copy paste championship.
Renault has a right to protest it, but I personally don’t feel that their strategy is bad or illegal... As long as they are within the regulations, everything is fair game
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It might be within the regulation book, but my point is more towards the spirit of the sport which always has been the battle of different ideas/concepts and strategies in order to win.
Well... Racing Point copying the W10 was actual a novel idea, wasn’t it?... Other teams could have done it too (Williams, I’m looking at you) and get out of their slumps in performance faster and be competitive... I agree that one of the things that I love about Formula 1 is the Technological Battle that goes behind the scenes and enjoy looking at how their developing their cars as much as I do the racing.
Let’s just wait to see what happens... RP’s response to the protest doesn’t scream “confidence”
I just get the feeling Renault have them in a corner. I read the remarks from Renault’s ED, Marcin Budkowski, who ironically, worked with the FIA. He is probably well equipped more than most to interprete the rules. It may appear like a novel idea, but maybe it hasn’t been done before because it isn’t possible to do what RP claim they have done.
Carlos Sainz Jr: "I asked my engineers 'Why don't we copy Mercedes too?' and they told me it's impossible. F1 is in the detail, and it's impossible to copy those details," he said.
"I believe them and I'm not going to say any more."
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously.
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.
Renault have been very clever in their approach here because they’ve been specific rather than allow a bit of theological debate to happen. Budkowski is the best placed guy to know the ins and outs and it would take a brave man to bet against that knowledge.
Renault probably had their protest ready for a while and last race was perfect timing for them... Since if it goes in their favor, RP will lose the points of the Styrian GP (not the Austrian one, where they only scored with Perez)... They can get both RP’s to lose their points and gain both positions for Ric for the race (it will also play nicely for McLaren since Carlos would be promoted to 7th)
Renault's executive director Marcin Budkowski, who previously was Formula 1’s Technical and Sporting Coordinator and then Head of the Formula One Technical Department:
To be honest, we were planning to do it in Melbourne, and didn't really have the opportunity to do it in Melbourne.
And the reasons why we didn't do it last week were more related to the fact took a lot of a lot of good work from the FIA and F1 to reconvene everybody at a race. And I think we wanted to respect this, and we applaud the work that they've done.
And I think we know a lot of teams have contributed to it. And we just thought it wasn't the right thing to do. But we did it at the second race because again, there was the opportunity to do it. That's really the reason for waiting, but it's something we spotted in Barcelona in testing.
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Basically we contend that the brake ducts front and rear that are used on the Racing Point are effectively a Mercedes design, and so have been designed by another competitor
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First of all brake ducts are a listed part, because they are a performance differentiator as they're an aerodynamically sensitive component. And they are also pretty crucial in controlling tyre temperatures, which we know is a fairly major performance differentiator in F1.
And they are regulated by Appendix 6, so we believe that these geometries in use in the Racing Point are effectively the exact design of Mercedes from last year, potentially with some minor modifications to adapt them to the Racing Point, or some minor evolutions, but nevertheless it's not a Racing Point design. So it's not their intellectual property. And that's explicitly banned in the regulations.
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It's not us that have to prove it, it's Racing Point. In the F1 regulations, it's the duty of the competitor to prove that your car is legal at all times. So it will be it will be Racing Point's duty to prove the legality of their car.
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What we contend is that the design is not their design, and there's similarity of geometry, which I think is obvious to be seen, but there's external geometry and internal geometry.
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You can copy external geometry from pictures, but it's going to be difficult to copy internal geometry from pictures. We don't know, but it's for the FIA to determine the similarities there.
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Furthermore has there been an exchange of designs and of parts potentially? We believe there has been. Potentially, in the legal way, but nevertheless, if it was legal to exchange them last year, it's not legal to race them this year.
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So I think the FIA will need to look at not only the geometries, but also whether there has been any exchange of information between the competitors that has led to this design.
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What we're saying is, we accept it's possible to copy external geometries from pictures. We don't think it's possible to copy internal geometries. Furthermore, we know that transfers of information on brake ducts were allowed last year. But it's not allowed to use this information on your race car this year.
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These parts were not listed last year, and they're listed this year, so you could exchange information last year, but you cannot use this information on your race car this year. So if they've used information from the Mercedes '19 car that they received, we contend that this is illegal.
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It's for the FIA to determine this. But what is clear is that any part that is listed needs to be your own proprietary design. The regulations are clear, not only do you have to design it yourself, but you can't outsource it to another competitor.
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And if a competitor designs it, it retains exclusive rights to use it. So there's no way you can base your design on someone else's without breaching the regulations.
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We have strong, strong suspicions, if not conviction, that these parts are a design from another competitor. Whether that's the case for the other parts, again, it's for the FIA to determine.
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If the FIA finds that the brake ducts are the same geometry or the based on the same geometry, then I would hope they would start checking other parts as well, if they haven't done so already.
Ricciardo was saying he was held up by Ocon. Ocon says it was good racing, he always battles with teammates and opponents no differently. Seems that Ricciardo is already playing second fiddle. I wonder how Ocon would get along with Alonso.
Considering the tire strategy Riccardo was on and that he was clearly faster, Renault should have had Ocon let him by as this cost Renault points at the end of the race.
Considering the tire strategy Riccardo was on and that he was clearly faster, Renault should have had Ocon let him by as this cost Renault points at the end of the race.
True, I agree fully. You're not racing your team mate. Holding him behind should not be a strategy.
Considering the tire strategy Riccardo was on and that he was clearly faster, Renault should have had Ocon let him by as this cost Renault points at the end of the race.
Ocon spent his time stuck behind Sainz. Ricciardo then spent 13 laps stuch behind Sainz as well, despite Sainz being stuck on the C4 tyre. Whilst there is a possibility Ricciardo would've been able to pass (whilst the delta between the tyre wear was less), I'm not convinced that it could be presented as a definite.
As for Hungary. I've not had time to delve into Ricciardo and Ocon's race (I will). The only thing I've had a chance to look at closely (in terms of Renault) is the first five laps. Ocon was pretty much the standout driver in those tricky conditions. Like pretty much everyone on that side of the grid, he had a poor get away but made up for it by making overtakes on track whilst things were still treacherous. It's such a shame Renault didn't gamble a lap earlier with at least one of their drivers.
Hmm, not much to say about Renault's race in Hungary.
- Ocon was great in the first few laps in those tricky conditions but it was pretty much undone when Renault double-stacked and cost him 3 seconds.
- He gets stuck behind Kimi and they both cruise around until they get near the pitstop window, at which point Ocon find a second and closes up. Ricciardo is also in clearish air at this point so their pace is comparable. RIC 1:22.6s, OCO 1:22.8s on 18-lap old C3s
- Ocon undercuts Kimi on lap 31 for C2s, (helped by an awful pitstop) and immediately starts chasing down Grosjean (7 seconds ahead). He puts in a string of mid-to-high 1:20s (including 1:20.261) and Grosjean can't even stay in the 1:20s.
- Ocon passes him pretty easily and sets off after Kvyat. At which point Verstappen laps him and costs him 3+ seconds and dirty tyres, which puts Norris right on his tail. It's Lap 48, Kvyat is 7.8 seconds down the road.
- Ocon settles in and puts in a string of 1:20.5s, quickly closing the gap and bringing Norris with him.
- That's how it stays until Norris gets him on the final lap.
- Ricciardo has a fairly similar race. He comes out of the first pitstop just behind Perez and is happy to sit just off his gearbox until Leclerc stops holding everyone up and pits on lap 20. He can't stay with Perez after that though, Perez pulling out 4 seconds in 4 laps and then continuing to slowly build the lead.
- Ricciardo, in clear air, starts posting 1:22.6s on 18-lap old C3s.
- Perez pits on lap 35 for C2s, Ricciardo up his pace to 1:21.5s and goes long, pitting on lap 43. During this period, he also leaves Sainz (who was the kaboose of the Leclerc train) in his dust.
- Perez realises what's happening and starts pushing, slipping into the mid 1:20s and posting a 1:20.090
- Ricciardo (now on C3s) comes out 9.7 seconds behind Perez, with K-Mag in between. He dispatches the Haas quickly, sets a 1:19.532 and starts chasing Perez down.
- It takes Ricciardo 13 laps to close from 9.7 seconds to 1.5 seconds (lap 57) at a pacy 1:20.1 but Perez then holds him at that gap until the end of the race.
Conclusions: What we already knew. Ocon is very good in slippery conditions. Ricciardo is quicker than Ocon in the dry (looked like 2/10ths on this track). The Renault can't match the Racing Point on race pace. If feels like they had the edge on the Mclaren in race pace. If Ocon hadn't been caught behind Kvyat, I suspect he might have held Norris off.
Hmm, not much to say about Renault's race in Hungary.
- Ocon was great in the first few laps in those tricky conditions but it was pretty much undone when Renault double-stacked and cost him 3 seconds.
He claims he was double stacked but the footage clearly shows Daniel was gone well before he got there.
