2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

[dans79]

. Potentially, in the legal way, but nevertheless, if it was legal to exchange them last year, it's not legal to race them this year."[/list]

I don't think there's any precedenance for that.

[Moore77]

Fp2 being a washout, the pecking order looks a bit weird on the basis of FP1 long runs. FP1 long run was full of traffic, yet there are some consistent times to look at.

1. Mercedes - Hamilton was doing an average of mid 1:20s on Hard tyre. Bottas was doing similar times on Mediums.
2. Ferrari - Leclerc was doing a low 1:21s on Mediums.
3. Renault - Both Ocon and Ricciardo were doing mid 1:21s on Mediums.
4. McLaren - Both drivers struggled in traffic, but did mostly high 1:21s on Softs.
5. Red Bull - Max was doing a low 1:22s on Softs!
6. Racing Point - Stroll started with mid 1:22s and had fast degrading and was doing 1:24s at the end of the stint. He was the only one who did a very long stint. He was on softs too!
7. Williams - Russell was doing mid 1m22s on Hards.

Could be because of green track, the Softs was a really bad tyre. With rest of the weekend being potentially wet, if the race indeed happens in dry, the Mediums and Hards are probably the tyre for the race. Anyone starting on Softs, could be potentially on for 2 stopper.

[zibby43]

. Potentially, in the legal way, but nevertheless, if it was legal to exchange them last year, it's not legal to race them this year."[/list]

I don't think there's any precedenance for that.

What do you mean? This was from Budkowski himself.

He's referring to the change in the listed part(s) status of the brake duct.

In 2019, it was legal for RP to receive information from Mercedes about this part.

In 2020, because of the change in status, it would be illegal to, for example, race a '19 Merc duct on a '20 RP car. Or, to race a '20 duct that was 100%, exclusively designed based on Merc's drawings of a W10 duct, which were obtained in '19.

As I pointed out in another thread, Merc are in the clear here, and RP just have to prove they have their own drawings for the ultimate design of their '20 duct, and RP wins.

[search]

4. McLaren - Both drivers struggled in traffic, but did mostly high 1:21s on Softs.

thanks for roundup, I just had a look as well, and mostly came up with similar thoughts.

Are you sure it was traffic for McLaren though? As far as I can see, they just did 1-2 quick laps (1:21.x) at the beginning, and then times dropped significantly from lap to lap. Could also be huge problems with tire wear?!

Kvyat and the Haas did longruns on medium as well, by the way. At a more or less similar pace as Latifi (+-0.2s)

[MtthsMlw]

Just a cool shot. Tyre wobble, steering and suspension movement.

from reddit

[dans79]

What do you mean?

That's his opinion at best.

If The ducts/design RP are running in 2020 where purchased legally under the rules is 2019. There would have to be something very specific in the rules that negates them being run in 2020. While I don't know the rules inside and out, I haven't seen anything like that personally. Everything i have read relates to the current season, by that i mean purchasing listed items in 2020 and running them in 2020.

Not to mention, his entire argument is based on then being exact duplicates of what Merc sold in 2019. If they have been modified or altered in any way, then RP is in the clear imo, as they are a new design, or a derivative design at worst.

[Moore77]

4. McLaren - Both drivers struggled in traffic, but did mostly high 1:21s on Softs.

thanks for roundup, I just had a look as well, and mostly came up with similar thoughts.

Are you sure it was traffic for McLaren though? As far as I can see, they just did 1-2 quick laps (1:21.x) at the beginning, and then times dropped significantly from lap to lap. Could also be huge problems with tire wear?!

Kvyat and the Haas did longruns on medium as well, by the way. At a more or less similar pace as Latifi (+-0.2s)

FP1 was a mess as everyone knew it would rain for FP2. So teams wanted to crunch some long running and were interrupting each other. As much as I watched, almost no one could get clear running. McLaren were in the middle of that pack, but because they were on Softs, the tyres were going away faster. Same really applies to RP too. Both of them had steep increase in lap times.

Between, why are people spoiling the race thread with irrelevant topic like the legality discussion of Racing Point car?

[dans79]

Between, why are people spoiling the race thread with irrelevant topic like the legality discussion of Racing Point car?

I assume because its a topic being discussed by the press, the teams and up and down the paddock this weekend.

[zibby43]

What do you mean?

That's his opinion at best.

If The ducts/design RP are running in 2020 where purchased legally under the rules is 2019. There would have to be something very specific in the rules that negates them being run in 2020. While I don't know the rules inside and out, I haven't seen anything like that personally. Everything i have read relates to the current season, by that i mean purchasing listed items in 2020 and running them in 2020.

Not to mention, his entire argument is based on then being exact duplicates of what Merc sold in 2019. If they have been modified or altered in any way, then RP is in the clear imo, as they are a new design, or a derivative design at worst.

Oh okay, you're going the opposite way (more lenient for RP), arguing that if they were legal to purchase/receive info. about in '19, they should be legal in '20.

That's what I was curious about. I'd actually tend to agree with your interpretation. That is Budkowski's opinion (that it would be illegal to race legally obtained information/parts).

But like you said, there is no precedent.

[Big Tea]

What do you mean?

That's his opinion at best.

If The ducts/design RP are running in 2020 where purchased legally under the rules is 2019. There would have to be something very specific in the rules that negates them being run in 2020. While I don't know the rules inside and out, I haven't seen anything like that personally. Everything i have read relates to the current season, by that i mean purchasing listed items in 2020 and running them in 2020.

Not to mention, his entire argument is based on then being exact duplicates of what Merc sold in 2019. If they have been modified or altered in any way, then RP is in the clear imo, as they are a new design, or a derivative design at worst.

Oh okay, you're going the opposite way (more lenient for RP), arguing that if they were legal to purchase/receive info. about in '19, they should be legal in '20.

That's what I was curious about. I'd actually tend to agree with your interpretation. That is Budkowski's opinion (that it would be illegal to race legally obtained information/parts).

But like you said, there is no precedent.

Could it even eventually come down to when the parts fitted were made? Were they made last year and carried over, not legal, made this year to exactly the same spec purchased last year, legal?

[SmallSoldier]

What do you mean?

That's his opinion at best.

If The ducts/design RP are running in 2020 where purchased legally under the rules is 2019. There would have to be something very specific in the rules that negates them being run in 2020. While I don't know the rules inside and out, I haven't seen anything like that personally. Everything i have read relates to the current season, by that i mean purchasing listed items in 2020 and running them in 2020.

Not to mention, his entire argument is based on then being exact duplicates of what Merc sold in 2019. If they have been modified or altered in any way, then RP is in the clear imo, as they are a new design, or a derivative design at worst.

Oh okay, you're going the opposite way (more lenient for RP), arguing that if they were legal to purchase/receive info. about in '19, they should be legal in '20.

That's what I was curious about. I'd actually tend to agree with your interpretation. That is Budkowski's opinion (that it would be illegal to race legally obtained information/parts).

But like you said, there is no precedent.

The way I understand the rule the teams can’t use someone else’s design or buy the brake ducts in 2020 due to them been listed parts, therefore forced to design them themselves... Even if RP “legally”
bought them as parts in 2019 or copy the design of Mercedes 2019 last year, it would be against the rules to use them in 2020


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[Restomaniac]

That's his opinion at best.

If The ducts/design RP are running in 2020 where purchased legally under the rules is 2019. There would have to be something very specific in the rules that negates them being run in 2020. While I don't know the rules inside and out, I haven't seen anything like that personally. Everything i have read relates to the current season, by that i mean purchasing listed items in 2020 and running them in 2020.

Not to mention, his entire argument is based on then being exact duplicates of what Merc sold in 2019. If they have been modified or altered in any way, then RP is in the clear imo, as they are a new design, or a derivative design at worst.

Oh okay, you're going the opposite way (more lenient for RP), arguing that if they were legal to purchase/receive info. about in '19, they should be legal in '20.

That's what I was curious about. I'd actually tend to agree with your interpretation. That is Budkowski's opinion (that it would be illegal to race legally obtained information/parts).

But like you said, there is no precedent.

The way I understand the rule the teams can’t use someone else’s design or buy the brake ducts in 2020 due to them been listed parts, therefore forced to design them themselves... Even if RP “legally”
bought them as parts in 2019 or copy the design of Mercedes 2019 last year, it would be against the rules to use them in 2020


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Its depends surely.

Can they show clear evidence that they started their plans before the end of the Abu Dhabi Race weekend even if they did acquire the plans directly from Mercedes. Surely then they are under 2019 rules? In fact when do the rules change, is it at the end of the year?

This could very easily end up being a fight based around dates and grey areas.
31/12/19> and it’s fine.
31/12/19< and it’s not.

[El Scorchio]

This is going to be one of those where if it’s passed legal, those who don’t agree will carry on like a dog with a bone over it for weeks if not months, like DAS.

Life’s too short.

[Big Tea]

Oh okay, you're going the opposite way (more lenient for RP), arguing that if they were legal to purchase/receive info. about in '19, they should be legal in '20.

That's what I was curious about. I'd actually tend to agree with your interpretation. That is Budkowski's opinion (that it would be illegal to race legally obtained information/parts).

But like you said, there is no precedent.

The way I understand the rule the teams can’t use someone else’s design or buy the brake ducts in 2020 due to them been listed parts, therefore forced to design them themselves... Even if RP “legally”
bought them as parts in 2019 or copy the design of Mercedes 2019 last year, it would be against the rules to use them in 2020


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its depends surely.

Can they show clear evidence that they started their plans before the end of the Abu Dhabi Race weekend even if they did acquire the plans directly from Mercedes. Surely then they are under 2019 rules? In fact when do the rules change, is it at the end of the year?

This could very easily end up being a fight based around dates and grey areas.
31/12/19> and it’s fine.
31/12/19< and it’s not.

If they bought a 'set' in 2019 to use as was legal, they owned them, but they were made and designed by Merc.
If that same 'set' were copied to use in 2020, and made by RP, they were then not made by a competitor and were copied from, not designed by another competitor. Legal ?

[zibby43]

That's his opinion at best.

If The ducts/design RP are running in 2020 where purchased legally under the rules is 2019. There would have to be something very specific in the rules that negates them being run in 2020. While I don't know the rules inside and out, I haven't seen anything like that personally. Everything i have read relates to the current season, by that i mean purchasing listed items in 2020 and running them in 2020.

Not to mention, his entire argument is based on then being exact duplicates of what Merc sold in 2019. If they have been modified or altered in any way, then RP is in the clear imo, as they are a new design, or a derivative design at worst.

Oh okay, you're going the opposite way (more lenient for RP), arguing that if they were legal to purchase/receive info. about in '19, they should be legal in '20.

That's what I was curious about. I'd actually tend to agree with your interpretation. That is Budkowski's opinion (that it would be illegal to race legally obtained information/parts).

But like you said, there is no precedent.

The way I understand the rule the teams can’t use someone else’s design or buy the brake ducts in 2020 due to them been listed parts, therefore forced to design them themselves... Even if RP “legally”
bought them as parts in 2019 or copy the design of Mercedes 2019 last year, it would be against the rules to use them in 2020


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That's what I was thinking, too, based solely on Budkowski's argument in his interview earlier this week.

However, even the FIA is unclear on this. It's a bit of a gray area that needs clarifying: