To quote Austin Powers ‘Oh no...I’ve gone cross-eyed’.Big Tea wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020, 23:18If they bought a 'set' in 2019 to use as was legal, they owned them, but they were made and designed by Merc.Restomaniac wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020, 22:56Its depends surely.SmallSoldier wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020, 22:27
The way I understand the rule the teams can’t use someone else’s design or buy the brake ducts in 2020 due to them been listed parts, therefore forced to design them themselves... Even if RP “legally”
bought them as parts in 2019 or copy the design of Mercedes 2019 last year, it would be against the rules to use them in 2020
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Can they show clear evidence that they started their plans before the end of the Abu Dhabi Race weekend even if they did acquire the plans directly from Mercedes. Surely then they are under 2019 rules? In fact when do the rules change, is it at the end of the year?
This could very easily end up being a fight based around dates and grey areas.
31/12/19> and it’s fine.
31/12/19< and it’s not.
If that same 'set' were copied to use in 2020, and made by RP, they were then not made by a competitor and were copied from, not designed by another competitor. Legal ?
I can’t find the article now, but I read that Haas struggles with their brakes in Austria were due to the fact that they had to “design” them and couldn’t just use the brake ducts they bought in 2019 from Ferrari due to the new rules.zibby43 wrote:That's what I was thinking, too, based solely on Budkowski's argument in his interview earlier this week.SmallSoldier wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020, 22:27The way I understand the rule the teams can’t use someone else’s design or buy the brake ducts in 2020 due to them been listed parts, therefore forced to design them themselves... Even if RP “legally”zibby43 wrote: Oh okay, you're going the opposite way (more lenient for RP), arguing that if they were legal to purchase/receive info. about in '19, they should be legal in '20.
That's what I was curious about. I'd actually tend to agree with your interpretation. That is Budkowski's opinion (that it would be illegal to race legally obtained information/parts).
But like you said, there is no precedent.
bought them as parts in 2019 or copy the design of Mercedes 2019 last year, it would be against the rules to use them in 2020
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However, even the FIA is unclear on this. It's a bit of a gray area that needs clarifying:
Actually, you'll find that he doesn't disagree with me at all.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020, 19:43Christian Horner disagrees with you. It is all about if documents were exchanged.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020, 18:02They are protected because they are intellectual property.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020, 17:28F1 aero parts are not copy protected.
A brake duct is no different that T-wing, no different than the high top side pod, or the floor slits.
The key is that only Mercedes can act to protect the design as it is theirs. If Mercedes choose not to take action to protect their IP then that's up to them.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/christian ... t-copycat/
“I’ve always stood by the fact it is easier to sell a car than to copy it,” Horner told Sky Sports F1.
“You can see the closeness of those two cars but I’m sure it is probably within the rules because they is no copyright within Formula 1.
“They can photograph, they can scan them and can recreate that shape but it depends how they have had access to those components which is what Renault is complaining about.
“But it’s the fastest route to competitiveness as Racing Point has demonstrated.”
I sat down again this afternoon , and looked at the sporting/technical regulations, and i didn't see anything that definitively says one way or the other what you can and can't do with items and knowledge that you previously obtained legally. Honestly, I think that's the reason why we see the comments coming from Tombazis. They have screwed up writing the rules again and don't know how to handle the issue.SmallSoldier wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 00:24I can’t find the article now, but I read that Haas struggles with their brakes in Austria were due to the fact that they had to “design” them and couldn’t just use the brake ducts they bought in 2019 from Ferrari due to the new rules.
I don’t know if I’d say they screwed it up, but it’s a difference in the way the rule on parts has been interpreted by different teams. RP think it means you can run something in 2020 you obtained in 2019 when it was ok to obtain it, Renault think it’s not.dans79 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 04:02I sat down again this afternoon , and looked at the sporting/technical regulations, and i didn't see anything that definitively says one way or the other what you can and can't do with items and knowledge that you previously obtained legally. Honestly, I think that's the reason why we see the comments coming from Tombazis. They have screwed up writing the rules again and don't know how to handle the issue.SmallSoldier wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 00:24I can’t find the article now, but I read that Haas struggles with their brakes in Austria were due to the fact that they had to “design” them and couldn’t just use the brake ducts they bought in 2019 from Ferrari due to the new rules.
What a fabulous picture that is. WonderfulHoffman900 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020, 04:53Mark Sutton shared this today:
28 years apart.
For the photog buffs, he shot Fuji Velvia 50 (pushed 1 stop to 100iso) then. Darren Heath and Clive Mason did too. Schlegelmilch and Paul Henry Cahier shot on Kodachrome. Darren Heath shot film until 2006. PHC made the switch in 2002.
As a friend said, you can "see the safety".