[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[Darth-Piekus]

Personally I dont think we have shown our speed yet. We are probably gonna show it to the Qualifications. However I am curious to see if Racing Point are legal or illegalcause I dont think they are legal if they are a complete copy of last years car.

[Mansell89]

We’ve looked sharper once the quali sims have been done in FP3, certainly Norris’ car anyway. Carlos seems to still be trying to find his sweet spot for this track.

Di Resta impressed with our cars handling in comparison to the Red Bull, although noted that doesn’t mean it’s got more downforce but just behaves as it should.

Very close between Ferrari, McLaren, Renault and Lance Stroll. I think Perez might just be a couple of tenths too far up the road.

[Darth-Piekus]

I don't think Racing Point are legal. Their car is very close to this Mercedes car and it's a complete copy of the 2019 Mercedes Championship winning car. Mercedes hasn't gained much from last year.

[Emag]

They are legal. FIA already looked into it. Copying aero geometry from another team is within the rules. It may be unethical, but I doubt RP cares about that when they will probably be busy drowning in champagne this year. Renault protested the brake ducts specifically and not the whole car because the brake ducts are not listed parts for this year. They are hoping there are internal similarities between Merc's brakes last year and this year's RP. I personally doubt RP would have been so stupid as to completely copy the internals from the Merc brakes because they are aware of the rules too

[mwillems]

We’ve looked sharper once the quali sims have been done in FP3, certainly Norris’ car anyway. Carlos seems to still be trying to find his sweet spot for this track.

Di Resta impressed with our cars handling in comparison to the Red Bull, although noted that doesn’t mean it’s got more downforce but just behaves as it should.

Very close between Ferrari, McLaren, Renault and Lance Stroll. I think Perez might just be a couple of tenths too far up the road.

It seems better now.

I wonder if we are slower in FP1 and FP2 because we run with a higher fuel load typically, which is when we are slowest compared to others in the race.

[Xero]

Car looks really well balanced, just lacking that raw speed. Looks like it could be a scrap over the lower end points this weekend though. Hoping for some wet conditions in qually and race, that's McLaren's best chance at some big points again it seems.

[mwillems]

They are legal. FIA already looked into it. Copying aero geometry from another team is within the rules. It may be unethical, but I doubt RP cares about that when they will probably be busy drowning in champagne this year. The Renault protested the brake ducts specifically and not the whole car because the brake ducts are not listed parts for this year. They are hoping there are internal similarities between Merc's brakes last year and this year's RP. I personally doubt RP would have been so stupid as to completely copy the internals from the Merc brakes because they are aware of the rules too

I agree. If they get penalised on the brake ducts it will be a technicality, they will adapt and move on and I doubt they will get much of a penalty. Rest of the car seems sound according to reports of the FIA checks.

[Darth-Piekus]

Remains to be seen but I find it hard to believe that you can gain so much just be copying the outside appearance of a Championship Winning Car without copying everything inside. Rules next year ban copy cars.

I never understood why they are letting you copy everything else apart from brake ducts.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Lando looks awesome in S2 And S3. Plenty of lap time still to find. Looking at our S1 time I still think MCL run the Renault at a comparatively low power setting. I think Scenario 5 was mentioned on team radio.
Fingers crossed but trend seems to continue that the car looks more lively on lower fuel runs

[McL-H]

Remains to be seen but I find it hard to believe that you can gain so much just be copying the outside appearance of a Championship Winning Car without copying everything inside. Rules next year ban copy cars.

I never understood why they are letting you copy everything else apart from brake ducts.

I don’t believe it either. You can’t copy a whole car based on photographs as the most important are the internals. Either Mercedes have been spied on, or they have willingly supplied RP with their design. RP could possibly take a lot of points away from Mercedes’ rivals this season. FIA should do more than just check the brake ducts.

[Emag]

Remains to be seen but I find it hard to believe that you can gain so much just be copying the outside appearance of a Championship Winning Car without copying everything inside. Rules next year ban copy cars.

I never understood why they are letting you copy everything else apart from brake ducts.

They already have access to most of the internals because they bought them off from Mercedes last year. They probably just recreated some of the ones that are under listed parts for this year based on those designs.

And when we are talking about internals there aren't that many performance differentiators really. Brake Ducts, Suspension and the Power Unit are the most important things. RP can buy two of those things, and the other is probably not that difficult to recreate when you have a team of engineers who have extra time to focus on those things only.

It's not that you can copy everything apart from brake ducts. The thing is you could buy the brake ducts last year from other teams, however you can no longer do that this year. You have to design that yourself. That is the meaning of listed part. A part that you have to design yourself and a part that you can't outsource to other teams.

RP already had access to 2019 Merc brakes because they bought it from them. All they had to do was make some internal changes to call it their own design.

As for the copying bit. Teams copy each other all the time. It's just that RP took it to the next level by copying an entire car instead of copying a concept. Copying has always been within the rules. I guess up until now teams were probably operating under an unofficial "gentlemen agreement" to not copy the entire car from each-other.

RP said screw that, there are a lot of benefits for me in this so I am going to do it. But it's not illegal.

[Darth-Piekus]

Racing Point are gonna struggle next year since the FIA bans full copies. Also until we see what is happening with the internal of the car it remains to be seen if they are legal.

Personally all I see from these last years is Mclaren being the only legal team yet. I haven't heard a single controversy these last few years that they are fighting to go to the top. Meanwhile Mercedes had controversy after controversy like DAS, S Duct and a few others, Red Bull having their wing that bend over the limits under air but strangely not under weights, Ferrari having an illegal engine last year and now Racing Point copying everything from last years Mercedes.

[Emag]

Racing Point are gonna struggle next year since the FIA bans full copies.

They will not. For starters, regulations are kind of frozen for next year so if they ban copies then they have to unfreeze the regulations to allow RP to design another car.

Secondly, you can't completely ban copies because it is very hard to police it. What if two teams turn up in winter testing with the same design (Toro Rosso and Mercedes in 2017 had the same front suspension). Then how do you decide who keeps it (since copies aren't allowed).

And really, in this sport it is nearly impossible not to copy something. You look at what your competitors are doing. You find something interesting that might work on your car, and that's how you get inspiration for other things to find to improve your own car. If you ban copying you are essentially saying that engineers are not allowed to see any of the cars on track.

EDIT -> DAS it's completely legal. It's not a controversy. It's an engineering masterclass. A loophole within the rules. S-Duct it's not something Mercedes has come up with. It was first seen on Ferrari back in 2008. It also completely legal.

[Darth-Piekus]

My apologies. I meant a full copy like it was done this year inside and outside.

[billamend]

I don’t believe it either. You can’t copy a whole car based on photographs as the most important are the internals. Either Mercedes have been spied on, or they have willingly supplied RP with their design. RP could possibly take a lot of points away from Mercedes’ rivals this season. FIA should do more than just check the brake ducts.

The “photographies” story being told is bullshit.