[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[JordanMugen]

Now starting to say Honda will leave?

I'm a Honda fan, I've had 4 Civics and an Integra... No EF3 for me, but I have a nice EG4 swapped with K20A engine.

I see you prefer the ZC engine according to your profile pic Marti! I notice that the Honda RA168E 1.5T from 1988 has the same style of valve cover.

I was just noting that Honda are only confirmed until the end of 2021, and have not extended yet. In that case, Renault would be obliged to supply Red Bull & AlphaTauri.

[JordanMugen]

This is I don't expect from Redbull and Newey

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with RB16 IMO. It just has some issues that need to be corrected... it's a bit unclear if they are aerodynamic or mechanical or both, either way the car handling is obviously very poor with a combination of steady-state understeer and snap oversteer. Unfortunately these issues appeared during race weekend and not during the limited allocation of pre-season testing.

I'm sure RB16 will be very fast when it's corrected! However it's quite true that even in Austria it didn't make a huge gain compared to RB15, perhaps the concept is quite maximised already (pardon the pun)?

[Marti_EF3]

Now starting to say Honda will leave? Well, it's like old times. All blame to the PU, and keep being blind with your own problems. Renault have also reliability problems. Maybe Honda should go more agressively, but we know how they deal with new spec engines... But right now, I think 75% is on the car and 25% on the PU. No point of having reliability if your car have a poor handling not being able to match even a Williams time or last year car times...

We all admit that the car is a disaster, neither the updated car nor the BCN-test car are suitable now. It need to be fixed as soon as possible. But again the driver push with an engine, the engine is the core of the car. If that core is no more reliable, then the car won't move. It's basics ,mate. But every run and every lap we hear just complain and checking the engine. You can't even hope or dream for a competition for championship.

to the people blaming the engine top speed was the exact same as Mercedes

It doesn't matter the top speed on that circuit with reliability issues.

Yeah, I don't say Honda is perfect. But what I see is that everyone seems more focused on complaining about the PU and not giving the importance it's needed on the handling. Also, we will see if reliability is a real problem, or it's only software issues. Gasly changed the ECU, so maybe that's where the problem is with the PU. Basics it's also if you have the better engine, but a dog of a car, you seem an F2 on track (see Williams last year...)

[Marti_EF3]

Now starting to say Honda will leave?

I'm a Honda fan, I've had 4 Civics and an Integra... No EF3 for me, but I have a nice EG4 swapped with K20A engine.

I was just noting that Honda are only confirmed until the end of 2021, and have not extended yet. In that case, Renault would be obliged to supply Red Bull & AlphaTauri.

That would be enough to stop watching F1 for me.

P.D : I also have an EK with a B16b swap

[Karim28]

To whom saying Renault engines, Renault hybrid era was just a disastrous era, although sometimes the team built a slow car like the beginning in 2017. But totally there were problems with reliability as now. We just hoped better from Honda based on the statements from the team and them too. We understood that the first season would be not good in concerns of reliability, however, the performance was quite enough. 2020 is supposed to be the season of hitting the top again.
We should always seek to have better both performance and reliability. Not just one of them.

[epo]

Now starting to say Honda will leave? Well, it's like old times. All blame to the PU, and keep being blind with your own problems. Renault have also reliability problems. Maybe Honda should go more agressively, but we know how they deal with new spec engines... But right now, I think 75% is on the car and 25% on the PU. No point of having reliability if your car have a poor handling not being able to match even a Williams time or last year car times...

We all admit that the car is a disaster, neither the updated car nor the BCN-test car are suitable now. It need to be fixed as soon as possible. But again the driver push with an engine, the engine is the core of the car. If that core is no more reliable, then the car won't move. It's basics ,mate. But every run and every lap we hear just complain and checking the engine. You can't even hope or dream for a competition for championship.

to the people blaming the engine top speed was the exact same as Mercedes

It doesn't matter the top speed on that circuit with reliability issues.

Yeah, I don't say Honda is perfect. But what I see is that everyone seems more focused on complaining about the PU and not giving the importance it's needed on the handling. Also, we will see if reliability is a real problem, or it's only software issues. Gasly changed the ECU, so maybe that's where the problem is with the PU. Basics it's also if you have the better engine, but a dog of a car, you seem an F2 on track (see Williams last year...)

Nobody is saying it’s Honda, seems some of the die hard Honda fans or RB haters want to make a point but failing.

[JordanMugen]

P.D : I also have an EK with a B16b swap

I added a comment about ZC engine, I never noticed your EF3 was ZC powered before.

That would be enough to stop watching F1 for me.

Interesting! Honda come and go from F1 and tend to be pretty conservative when there are financial crises.

Nobody is saying it’s Honda, seems some of the die hard Honda fans or RB haters want to make a point but failing.

Red Bull is my favourite F1 team! There is no point panicking, chassis is clearly not working properly, I presume it can be fixed.

Without in-season testing, it makes it more difficult to sort out problems.

We should always seek to have the better both performance and reliability. Not just one of them.

This new 2020 PU concept has some teething problems it seems, unfortunately. I certainly don't get mad at a retirement during the race, "that's motor racing" after all.

The Honda advert says, "Over 50 years of trying, of success, and failure, we have not stopped believing, in the power of dreams. Let the race begin." That's the Honda way.

Failure happens, that's OK! The air-cooled 3.0 V8 Honda RA302 with the magnesium chassis was a complete and total failure (tragically) after all, for example.

[Fulcrum]

It seems as if Red Bull tends to start the year poorly, only to improve by the end of the year, even when the year "begins" in July.

Looking at podiums per year, dividing the years in half:

2015: 0 in first 9 races, 3 in last 10 races.
2016: 5 in first 10 races, 11 in last 11 races.
2017: 6 in first 10 races, 7 in last 10 races.
2018: 6 in first 10 races, 6 in last 11 races.
2019: 3 in first 10 races, 6 in last 11 races.

I.e. 20 podiums in 49 races (1st half of the season), 33 in 53 races (2nd half of the season).

This is an odds ratio of 1.53 in favour of the 2nd half of the season over a 5 year period. Meaning 50% more podiums per race in the 2nd half of a season relative to the 1st half.

Even if you exclude the most skewed result (2016) the odds ratio would be 1.36, 36% more podiums per race in the 2nd half of a season relative to the 1st half.

I suspect this is a combination of Red Bull spending more money and/or gaining more from their car from track time mid-season than everyone (excluding Mercedes), but it does seem like their cars are quite regularly not as good at the beginning of a season as they are ending it. Perfect on the drawing board, but not in real life?

[McMika98]

Saw this coming. Albon has been mentioning the balance issue but the team turned a blind eye because Max didn't have it. Now that he is experiencing the same issue they put a curfew and all resources. The race pace isn't all to write about as well they are same as midfield, Max was using high engine modes and ran out of fuel. They will struggle to keep up with the racing point.

[etusch]

This is I don't expect from Redbull and Newey

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with RB16 IMO. It just has some issues that need to be corrected... it's a bit unclear if they are aerodynamic or mechanical or both, either way the car handling is obviously very poor with a combination of steady-state understeer and snap oversteer. Unfortunately these issues appeared during race weekend and not during the limited allocation of pre-season testing.

I'm sure RB16 will be very fast when it's corrected! However it's quite true that even in Austria it didn't make a huge gain compared to RB15, perhaps the concept is quite maximised already (pardon the pun)?

they are generally developing during season then becoming competitive and can not be good at start of season at recent years. My theory is; their concepts are generally decent but their works of off track is not that good. It looks like they have correlation issues they didn't realise. They need track data to make it work. When situation is that they made update onto an unmature car and it became double unmature. I think if they keep working on winter testing car, they can develop as we saw last years. But this time there is very narrow time between races with short calender. So it is better to work on for next year's car from now on by testing everything on track this season.
I think they also need to develop off track operations to produce a car good enough when meet with track.

[IvailoStefanovBG]

At gained a second a Rb lost, Jesus...

This car is simply a piece of wood....

[godlameroso]

This is I don't expect from Redbull and Newey

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with RB16 IMO. It just has some issues that need to be corrected... it's a bit unclear if they are aerodynamic or mechanical or both, either way the car handling is obviously very poor with a combination of steady-state understeer and snap oversteer. Unfortunately these issues appeared during race weekend and not during the limited allocation of pre-season testing.

I'm sure RB16 will be very fast when it's corrected! However it's quite true that even in Austria it didn't make a huge gain compared to RB15, perhaps the concept is quite maximised already (pardon the pun)?

This type of at the limit instability is usually down to how toe changes as the suspension is loaded/unloaded. If the toe isn't correct it can lead to very inconsistent steering, where the car behaves a certain way on turn in, mid corner, and corner exit.

I wonder how much the pace deficit is down to not being able to use the tires properly.

If that's the issue then we can breathe a sigh of relief because all it takes is suspension geometry changes to get the toe curve in the right window.

It sort of makes sense, the track is green, so grip is naturally low, we saw the RB16 work better when track temperatures are higher, and today they were cool, as it was overcast. Perhaps they just can't turn the tires on with low ambient temperatures, but over a race distance the track rubbers in and the heat builds up in the tires where the pace comes back a bit.

[SmallSoldier]

This is I don't expect from Redbull and Newey

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with RB16 IMO. It just has some issues that need to be corrected... it's a bit unclear if they are aerodynamic or mechanical or both, either way the car handling is obviously very poor with a combination of steady-state understeer and snap oversteer. Unfortunately these issues appeared during race weekend and not during the limited allocation of pre-season testing.

I'm sure RB16 will be very fast when it's corrected! However it's quite true that even in Austria it didn't make a huge gain compared to RB15, perhaps the concept is quite maximised already (pardon the pun)?

This type of at the limit instability is usually down to how toe changes as the suspension is loaded/unloaded. If the toe isn't correct it can lead to very inconsistent steering, where the car behaves a certain way on turn in, mid corner, and corner exit.

I wonder how much the pace deficit is down to not being able to use the tires properly.

If that's the issue then we can breathe a sigh of relief because all it takes is suspension geometry changes to get the toe curve in the right window.

If it would be that simple, don’t you think RBR would have already fixed it? They are one of the best teams in the grid with no lack of resources...


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[godlameroso]

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with RB16 IMO. It just has some issues that need to be corrected... it's a bit unclear if they are aerodynamic or mechanical or both, either way the car handling is obviously very poor with a combination of steady-state understeer and snap oversteer. Unfortunately these issues appeared during race weekend and not during the limited allocation of pre-season testing.

I'm sure RB16 will be very fast when it's corrected! However it's quite true that even in Austria it didn't make a huge gain compared to RB15, perhaps the concept is quite maximised already (pardon the pun)?

This type of at the limit instability is usually down to how toe changes as the suspension is loaded/unloaded. If the toe isn't correct it can lead to very inconsistent steering, where the car behaves a certain way on turn in, mid corner, and corner exit.

I wonder how much the pace deficit is down to not being able to use the tires properly.

If that's the issue then we can breathe a sigh of relief because all it takes is suspension geometry changes to get the toe curve in the right window.

If it would be that simple, don’t you think RBR would have already fixed it? They are one of the best teams in the grid with no lack of resources...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Simple is not easy, a knife is simple, using it ain't. Maybe something on the chassis doesn't let them, which makes a simple fix not so simple.

[Marti_EF3]

It will be too late even to finish 2nd on WDC. Maybe enough to start decently at 2021, but I think Merc have some tenths on the bag if needed. It will be another boring year like 2014