[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[zibby43]

I don’t think it’s a mechanical issue at all.

At one of the most aero-sensitive circuits on the calendar, and after another week of back-to-back testing new parts and running different specs from car-to-car, this looks to be an aerodynamic problem.

They actually reverted to pre-season spec today.

[nzjrs]

Alex Albon is in the worst performance wise segment since his short F1 career began. A few more opaque performances and you can be sure that Helmut Markko will push the eject button. It is widely known that Red Bull like to substitute their drivers in the course of a season. Reality is that Red Bull has not been able to find a driver of Max Verstappen's calibre.

He's had what, 12 races? One hopes RB has gotten less trigger happy with the fire button...

Anyway, Albon is the least interesting thing to talk about over the last 3 weekends IMO. They threw out their new aero package and still up 0.3s slower than last year. Thats not good.

[godlameroso]

I don’t think it’s a mechanical issue at all.

At one of the most aero-sensitive circuits on the calendar, and after another week of back-to-back testing new parts and running different specs from car-to-car, this looks to be an aerodynamic problem.

They actually reverted to pre-season spec today.

If that were the case you'd expect them to be slower in the aero dominant part of the lap not the mechanically dominant part.

[Sieper]

That Merc PU, smoking and all, is a beast. Beastier Then Ferrari ever was last year. Even williams is subtop now.

[zibby43]

I don’t think it’s a mechanical issue at all.

At one of the most aero-sensitive circuits on the calendar, and after another week of back-to-back testing new parts and running different specs from car-to-car, this looks to be an aerodynamic problem.

They actually reverted to pre-season spec today.

If that were the case you'd expect them to be slower in the aero dominant part of the lap not the mechanically dominant part.

Haha my friend, anything that’s not a straight is an aero-sensitive part of the lap on this circuit layout.

If you listen to what the drivers are saying and watch the car’s behavior, it’s pretty apparent that it’s an aero imbalance that’s causing stalling and all kinds of unpredictable behavior.

Anyway, if you don’t believe my take, I just saw this piece come out, and they all (i.e., guys like Straw, Hughes, and Anderson) are also of the opinion that it’s a fundamental aero problem.

I tend to agree, as RB keep changing the aero surfaces of the car, front-to-back.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-worr ... r-verdict/

[McMika98]

Max is becoming more and more frustated and riled, refusing team order to collect data in Fp3. Wirrying sign that he might turn into another Fernando. He still thinks he lost out in straights when he could not go after than the Ferrari.
The race will be interesting and won't be suprused if there are incidents.
Merc 1, 2 and Pink Merc 3, 4 for rest of the season.

[Juzh]

That Merc PU, smoking and all, is a beast. Beastier Then Ferrari ever was last year. Even williams is subtop now.

Nah, ferrari's 2019 PU in terms of raw output probably cant ever be matched now that we've had a bunch of new regs introduced. I have laps from both ferraris last year's hungary q3 and compared to 2020 RP they're noticeably faster (5 kmh every straight). 2020 merc is slower than RP on every straight, so difference gets even bigger there.

Verstappen's Q3 Lap 1.14.849:
https://streamable.com/86akl5

[closed1001]

Verstappen's Q3 Lap 1.14.849:
https://streamable.com/86akl5

I remember you had a google drive for the laps from last season. do you still have it? it would be interesting to compare this lap to last year's pole.

[Mansell89]

Forgive me for this question guys but I think it’s worth a small discussion:

Has making Max Verstappen the team leader and the (then) age of 21 hindered the feedback that this team are getting in terms of developing the car?

I mean as fast as Max is, he is on the ragged edge and always has been from day one in F1. We are seeing a car here that seems to now be matching his style- very, very on the edge.

Is Max someone who drives past the limits of a car and hence the feedback is somewhat inaccurate? Couple this with yet another young inexperienced team mate and you have to wonder whether the drivers are pointing the engineers in the right direction.

I’ve said it many times but I do believe Red Bull are missing the right foil for Verstappen. If Perez is forced out of RP for Vettel, would you in Marko’s shoes ask Perez to come in with some really good experience and a solid all round driver to push the car forward with Max?

[Sieper]

Max and his dad, one Jos Verstappen have always built and maintained their karts together. Max Grew up on And alongside the track And knows about set-up and the factors at play in a race car. RBR has also improved the car every season running, the feedback from that over the last 3 seasons have had 1 driver in common.

[godlameroso]

I don’t think it’s a mechanical issue at all.

At one of the most aero-sensitive circuits on the calendar, and after another week of back-to-back testing new parts and running different specs from car-to-car, this looks to be an aerodynamic problem.

They actually reverted to pre-season spec today.

If that were the case you'd expect them to be slower in the aero dominant part of the lap not the mechanically dominant part.

Haha my friend, anything that’s not a straight is an aero-sensitive part of the lap on this circuit layout.

If you listen to what the drivers are saying and watch the car’s behavior, it’s pretty apparent that it’s an aero imbalance that’s causing stalling and all kinds of unpredictable behavior.

Anyway, if you don’t believe my take, I just saw this piece come out, and they all (i.e., guys like Straw, Hughes, and Anderson) are also of the opinion that it’s a fundamental aero problem.

I tend to agree, as RB keep changing the aero surfaces of the car, front-to-back.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-worr ... r-verdict/

Look at the onboards, where Verstappen has to make sharp stabs at the steering wheel. The slow long corners. That implies mechanical issue. Notice in the higher speed corners he doesn't have that issue. If it's an aero issue why is it not happening on high speed corners?

[GhostF1]

That Merc PU, smoking and all, is a beast. Beastier Then Ferrari ever was last year. Even williams is subtop now.

Nah, ferrari's 2019 PU in terms of raw output probably cant ever be matched now that we've had a bunch of new regs introduced. I have laps from both ferraris last year's hungary q3 and compared to 2020 RP they're noticeably faster (5 kmh every straight). 2020 merc is slower than RP on every straight, so difference gets even bigger there.

Verstappen's Q3 Lap 1.14.849:
https://streamable.com/86akl5

A good way to describe this car watching that is that it looks lethargic... It looks almost heavy through the corners. You can tell they've tried to dial in some rear end stability, we've got a car that's dull reacting to inputs and never actually gets to where the driver wants it, totally opposite some points in practice and last week where the front end was very responsive but "too good for the rear", so the rear would snap. The only way to make this thing vaguely driveable at the moment is to compromise the whole package..

I honestly think this can be traced back to the new rear suspension concept... It's the biggest change on the car. It's possible they just need to learn how get a handle on it, but it's also possible it's just not a step in the right direction.

And just for the typical PU is to blame tragics... Please explain how they have equal top speed to Merc, they have definitely more power than they did at this point last year, the temps are far more accommodating and yet we are 0.245 behind 2019. Grow up.

[ispano6]

If that were the case you'd expect them to be slower in the aero dominant part of the lap not the mechanically dominant part.

Haha my friend, anything that’s not a straight is an aero-sensitive part of the lap on this circuit layout.

If you listen to what the drivers are saying and watch the car’s behavior, it’s pretty apparent that it’s an aero imbalance that’s causing stalling and all kinds of unpredictable behavior.

Anyway, if you don’t believe my take, I just saw this piece come out, and they all (i.e., guys like Straw, Hughes, and Anderson) are also of the opinion that it’s a fundamental aero problem.

I tend to agree, as RB keep changing the aero surfaces of the car, front-to-back.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-worr ... r-verdict/

Look at the onboards, where Verstappen has to make sharp stabs at the steering wheel. The slow long corners. That implies mechanical issue. Notice in the higher speed corners he doesn't have that issue. If it's an aero issue why is it not happening on high speed corners?

Because it has to do with the breaking of the seal to the floor in midspeed corners that change direction. The erraticness is akin to a kite in unstable air or an air hockey puck. A gust of wind can easily unsettle it in different directions. A F1 car doesn't have mechanical control elements to stabilize itself against wind, closest thing is the flexing rear wing and t-wing.

[zibby43]

If that were the case you'd expect them to be slower in the aero dominant part of the lap not the mechanically dominant part.

Haha my friend, anything that’s not a straight is an aero-sensitive part of the lap on this circuit layout.

If you listen to what the drivers are saying and watch the car’s behavior, it’s pretty apparent that it’s an aero imbalance that’s causing stalling and all kinds of unpredictable behavior.

Anyway, if you don’t believe my take, I just saw this piece come out, and they all (i.e., guys like Straw, Hughes, and Anderson) are also of the opinion that it’s a fundamental aero problem.

I tend to agree, as RB keep changing the aero surfaces of the car, front-to-back.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-worr ... r-verdict/

Look at the onboards, where Verstappen has to make sharp stabs at the steering wheel. The slow long corners. That implies mechanical issue. Notice in the higher speed corners he doesn't have that issue. If it's an aero issue why is it not happening on high speed corners?

That’s flawed logic mate. Aero issues aren’t limited in scope by the speed of the corner alone. As such, performance in high-speed corners is nowhere close to being the lone, determinative evaluative factor.

The radius and lengths of the corners matter, too (among other variables). How much lock you have on the steering completely changes how the aero surfaces are interacting with the car, particularly with the flow interacting with the front wing, front wheels, and suspension.

Also, Marko confirmed it’s a flow detachment issue of some kind. Which is what I was suspecting as one of the issues the entire time.

[Bill]

Honda can match Mercedes pu even with all that smoke.they were doing around max 312 the Renault 308 and Ferrari 304.fia should look at Mercedes they look to doing what Ferrari was doing last year with oil burning then Honda will take its rightful place as number 1.