[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[Darth-Piekus]

Mclaren has more resources than RP, larger budger, bigger R&D department, better aerodynamists, better drivers and one of the fastest development in F1 if not the best. Racing Point is in reality only 0.3 seconds in front on a car that is probably maxed out in development while ours is at 0% development. We have the capabilities to close that gap and surpass it by the first large upgrade package we bring in Silverstone not to mention the fact that RP may as well be deemed illegal so I wouldn't call the final positions and who is faster just yet.

I don't know that to be true. McLaren had to let some people go, RP didn't. Even then, there probably isn't a huge difference between the two. RP have a good team over there, no guarantee the upgrades McLaren bring will out perform RPs.

I base my assumptions on the fact that the car they copied has little left to give and a fully developed car while our car is just a base with huge strides to gain and huge potential to bring out. Remember last year where we were behind Haas, Renaults and Racing Points by 0.2 seconds at the start of the Championship and after 4 Races in Spain we were faster by 0.3 seconds due to sheer outdevelopment and the Racing Points last year had a base car unlike this year so I expect to reach them even faster this year.

That is if the FIA deems them legal as I refuse to believe they were able to copy outside and inside a Championship Winning Car just by photos and made it work immediately without any outside help.

We might not agree on those comments but you have to agree on one thing. Mclaren is targeting their throne which is the first place and should not care what RP or other midfield teams do. They should care how to surpass Mercedes.

[diffuser]

Mclaren has more resources than RP, larger budger, bigger R&D department, better aerodynamists, better drivers and one of the fastest development in F1 if not the best. Racing Point is in reality only 0.3 seconds in front on a car that is probably maxed out in development while ours is at 0% development. We have the capabilities to close that gap and surpass it by the first large upgrade package we bring in Silverstone not to mention the fact that RP may as well be deemed illegal so I wouldn't call the final positions and who is faster just yet.

I don't know that to be true. McLaren had to let some people go, RP didn't. Even then, there probably isn't a huge difference between the two. RP have a good team over there, no guarantee the upgrades McLaren bring will out perform RPs.

I base my assumptions on the fact that the car they copied has little left to give and a fully developed car while our car is just a base with huge strides to gain and huge potential to bring out. Remember last year where we were behind Haas, Renaults and Racing Points by 0.2 seconds at the start of the Championship and after 4 Races in Spain we were faster by 0.3 seconds due to sheer outdevelopment and the Racing Points last year had a base car unlike this year so I expect to reach them even faster this year.

That is if the FIA deems them legal as I refuse to believe they were able to copy outside and inside a Championship Winning Car just by photos and made it work immediately without any outside help.

We might not agree on those comments but you have to agree on one thing. Mclaren is targeting their throne which is the first place and should not care what RP or other midfield teams do. They should care how to surpass Mercedes.

It's not that I don't agree...I want it too happen too. I think you're taking what you want to happen as fact. Yes it is possible, maybe even slightly more likely but FAR from a given.

[SmallSoldier]

Why don’t we just enjoy the season for now? I mean... After several years where the team was constantly fighting internal issues, whether it was a bad engine or issues on their chassis, we finally have had a couple of seasons where we are watching them progress... The MCL34 was a good race car, between some good races, good operations and a mix of good and bad luck, it allowed the team to finish 4th in 2019.

This year, we are lucky to have a season at all based on how the world looked a few months ago (and I don’t want to be a pessimist, but there is always a lingering feeling that it could end sooner than expected if a second wave forces countries to get into lockdown again)... The MCL35 is so far a step forward compared to the MCL34 and just as we are having a different challenge in the form of Racing Point, it is also true that so far Ferrari and Red Bull seem to be within reach if they don’t fix their own issues... So, they still have a lot to play for on what remains of the season... Hopefully the team keeps developing and improving and who knows, we may be in a position to fight Racing Point, Ferrari and Red Bull a little closer in the following months/races.

Whether that will happen or not depends on factors outside of McLaren, the other teams may solve their issues and disappear into the distance, so far the Renault engine has been reliable, but it has also only been 2 races so far... Or, we will learn more about the MCL35, unlock more potential from the current chassis and add performance to that through development and dream of a P2 at the end of the season... All of that is really a big unknown at the moment... At least myself, I’m enjoying every minute of it so far.


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[diffuser]

I am enjoying it and I hope I'm not saying anything that's causing Darth-Piekus not to enjoy it.

[mwillems]

I am enjoying it and I hope I'm not saying anything that's causing Darth-Piekus not to enjoy it.

You are right in what you are saying I think. RP have a good team and may offer a full season challenge.

We are in the mix and whilst we might not snatch third or even fourth, to feel like we have dragged ourselves into a position where we can give ourselves the opportunity to fight for 3rd in championship is tremendous.

I think what gives me some confidence is that on occasions when our speed isn't where we want it, our strategy has been able to make us look better than we were over the past year.

[selvam_e2002]

If Mercedes in this level and nearly 1 second different rest of the filed, will 2022 rule change help anything for other teams? I doubt it. If they dominate in 2022 as well then till 2025 whoever drive that car will be Champion. It will make viewers boring.....it will kill the sport.

[M840TR]

I think they’ve operationally out-performed rivals but reality is starting to catch up and Lando even admitted it as much: Austria is a unique track that suited them and the Racing points were still miles faster. At best they matched the Renaults and Ferraris. A 1 sec gap in quali alone is not something you can recover mid-season in ordinary circumstances. Let’s see how the car develops but it’s a tough fight ahead.

1 second to who exactly? Do you expect McLaren to fight Merc for the championship this year?

Their toughest rival are RP, and they were just over 0.5 ahead on a track where they seemingly couldn't set the car up right.

You know there were tracks last year where McLaren were 0.5 ahead of Renault, but they were much closer by the end of the championship.

I won't say that they will close the gap to RP with upgrades, but it is also not impossible.

My bad, I misread the timings. That’s still a 0.6 sec gap however, and that’s when Perez who’s the faster of the two RP had health problems during quali. The Mcl35 is a low-fuel car as well so expect them to be much slower in the race. I wouldn’t be surprised if that gap is in fact 1 sec per lap on Sunday.
The Mcl34 was also a quali car and even when it was more than half a second ahead of Renault like in COTA last year, they were slower in the races.
Point being, it’s going to take a lot of work to overcome the pace deficit to the RP. In one week alone they were able to turn a car that qualified 0.3 second behind to one running ~20 sec ahead after starting p17. Now they’ve locked the second row.

[M840TR]

I think they’ve operationally out-performed rivals but reality is starting to catch up and Lando even admitted it as much: Austria is a unique track that suited them and the Racing points were still miles faster. At best they matched the Renaults and Ferraris. A 1 sec gap in quali alone is not something you can recover mid-season in ordinary circumstances. Let’s see how the car develops but it’s a tough fight ahead.

1 second to who exactly? Do you expect McLaren to fight Merc for the championship this year?

Their toughest rival are RP, and they were just over 0.5 ahead on a track where they seemingly couldn't set the car up right.

You know there were tracks last year where McLaren were 0.5 ahead of Renault, but they were much closer by the end of the championship.

I won't say that they will close the gap to RP with upgrades, but it is also not impossible.

Was gonna say listen to 840TR, he is wise. After rereading the entry, I agree with EMag, that 1 second comment is out of left field.

Thanks diffuser. I’ve corrected my figures and given a more wholistic explanation above.

[Darth-Piekus]

I can't say where we are gonna end up. It could be the second best team or it could be the 5th best team. All I am saying is that people should not underestimate Mclaren or overestimate the opponents cause the differences aren't that great as they present. I have checked last years Qualifications from the start to the end starting being half a second off the pace from Haas and Renaults who were leading the midfield but getting more points than them in the races and in the end we were half a second in front of the midfield competition. Considering Ferrari screwed it up big time this year, Racing Point is controversial and might as well be banned and Red Bull is a selective car I don't see why we can't grab the 2nd best team position if we repeat last years development. Considering the strides they are doing each year and during the season I don't see why we can't repeat it.

[Andres125sx]

Sorry but that´s far from accurate. When Sainz went out of the pit at lap 33, cars and gaps in front of him were:

Grosjean +1.5
Kimi +2.5 (+4)
Giovinazzi +1.4 (+5.4)
Kvyat +1.6 (+7.0)

That's fair. I was stupidly using the end of lap gaps. Thank you for pointing it out and my apologies.

I think your conclusion feeds into the idea that he was at the end of his tyre life in stint 1 then? As even with a world-record pitstop his race is over. Given how far up the grid Sainz started, in hindsight would the medium have been the better call? He might lose places to Bottas and Albon off the start, but that would actually benefit his race as he wouldn't have to damage his tyres fighting them. For example, Ricciardo was able to clear the post-pitstop pack that compromised Sainz.

No, maybe we might discuss if that was a good strategy call to pits or not. Some may argue passing two slow cars on a train is much easier than passing 4 slow cars with a 3 seconds gap in between, so the tires could have been handled much better. Some will say even to pass 2 slow cars his tires would be damaged. But with a normal pitstop he at least would have had a chance to prevent Stroll, Perez and Ricciardo passing him. With a 4 seconds slower than necessary pitstop he didn´t have a chance.

About the medium tire, yes I agree, in hindshight it would have been better

Yes. But it's a choice (often made by the team rather than the driver). You choose to lose time behind slower cars or you chose to burn your tyres.

If Sainz had spent the first six laps not attempting to pass anyone but bringing his tyres up to temperature, he would've been roughly 5.5 seconds further back when Perez exited the pits (I think Sainz was 1.8 to Kimi when Perez came out and Kimi had been 3.5 to Grosjean the had pitted the previous lap). I'm assuming Sainz would cruise at least a second closer to Kimi in that clear air when Grosjean pitted.

Were those 5.5 seconds he gained worth it, knowing that all those cars had to pit in the next few laps? For context, Norris emerged c.8.5 seconds behind Sainz.

I don´t think that was a decision, but a necessity. Once they failed in the pitstop there was no option, he had to pass those slow cars as soon as possible to limit the damage. It was not possible to reduce those 4 seconds lost, but he had to try anycase

[Darth-Piekus]

It's Raining at Hungaroring at the moment. We might have a rainy race and a good chance to get positions 3 and 4 as we are very good in the rain. Did we had yesterday perhaps a wet set up and we get everyone by surprise today?

[101FlyingDutchman]

Don’t think so but Sainz looked very happy with the MCL35 when it was wet during fp2. Anyone got any further info trackside? Is it going to stay wet for the start? At family today so can’t watch it!!!!

[Darth-Piekus]

It might be our best chance to beat the opposition and score lots of points. Fingers crossed for a clear start and hope to gain some places and then attack during the wet race. I hope our drivers are good in the wet.

On another note Mclaren has to make a new vision. How to become the most successful team in F1 history. I am hearing all the time about how every driver wants to drive for Ferrari but why not create our own legacy and make the world want to drive a Mclaren?

[Darth-Piekus]

Oh god. Max Verstappen has damaged his car before the start. He also might have damaged the suspension.

[SmallSoldier]

I think they’ve operationally out-performed rivals but reality is starting to catch up and Lando even admitted it as much: Austria is a unique track that suited them and the Racing points were still miles faster. At best they matched the Renaults and Ferraris. A 1 sec gap in quali alone is not something you can recover mid-season in ordinary circumstances. Let’s see how the car develops but it’s a tough fight ahead.

1 second to who exactly? Do you expect McLaren to fight Merc for the championship this year?

Their toughest rival are RP, and they were just over 0.5 ahead on a track where they seemingly couldn't set the car up right.

You know there were tracks last year where McLaren were 0.5 ahead of Renault, but they were much closer by the end of the championship.

I won't say that they will close the gap to RP with upgrades, but it is also not impossible.

My bad, I misread the timings. That’s still a 0.6 sec gap however, and that’s when Perez who’s the faster of the two RP had health problems during quali. The Mcl35 is a low-fuel car as well so expect them to be much slower in the race. I wouldn’t be surprised if that gap is in fact 1 sec per lap on Sunday.
The Mcl34 was also a quali car and even when it was more than half a second ahead of Renault like in COTA last year, they were slower in the races.
Point being, it’s going to take a lot of work to overcome the pace deficit to the RP. In one week alone they were able to turn a car that qualified 0.3 second behind to one running ~20 sec ahead after starting p17. Now they’ve locked the second row.

It will be hard, there’s no denying that... But I believe that it’s achievable... Also, just like we shouldn’t conclude how the pecking order looks after Austria, we probably shouldn’t do it after Hungary either... If the gap is around half a second, there is a chance to at least catch them by season end.


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