[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[kimmmykim]

If they would have been smart they would have put dirty drag on the car once they could release some extra power from the engine. Like this no one would have seen this extra power, no one would have protested and on the long run they could have switched to a aero concept that works without overdoing it on the straights.

But wouldn't that mean continuing what they were doing? Illegal or not.

[hape]

Ferrari lost the political game for quite some time. I am not convinced that their PU advantage was solely on fuel flow cheating. I think theyn found a loophole in the deployment department that FIA could not prove it was illegal immediately and for sure did not like. So Ferrari decided to accept in a way liability and made a deal. FIA would need a long court procedure that could take time in order to prove that Ferrari cheated and maybe both parties did not want that. The problem is that the result of such arrangement in the end is not bad for Ferrari only. it's bad for F1. 2020 championship is over. All the things FIA cannot understand should not penalise them...just because of the benefit of the doubt. In the end fuel flow cheating leads to having to use more fuel so carry a weight penalty or having to lift and coast. So maybe for qualifying it could be useful but during the race not so much. In the end Ferrari by going on a deal with FIA accepted that it was guilty of something. The Team needs a leader in the managing and political aspect of the sport. Not sure Binotto can be successful on that end. By not giving Vettel even a paycut contract and getting a driver like Sainz proves that he does not want to have too many headaches. he could not manage the situatio between Leclerc and Vettel. Ferrari would have way more success if they had given to Ross Brawn the position of Jean Todt...They seem lost not only in terms of engineering and building a fast car but in many other aspects of the sport.

I guess you are right. With being nice and gentle you don’t win F1 championships.
First of all, the FiA, after 4 months of studying, was unable to proof what trickery was going on so the secret agreement came. Why did Ferrari have to stop immediately what was going on, being left with a castrated engine? Mercedes trickery on “oil” burning was slowly reduced over years at a time when Ferrari started the same. And let’s not say it was so difficult to redesign the engine for that.

Knowing the engine was a pussy back in 2020 winter testing, the aero was a mess.... how on earth could Binotto commit to this token system and the budget cap?

That the FIA couldn't find any proof is one theory. Another one is that they did find proof but didn't want to exclude one of Liberies main assets to the F1 brand; Ferrari. That Ferrari didn't use their veto right to block the sudden freeze of development points to the FIA holding Ferrari's balls at the moment, they are on very thin ice. The agrement between FIA and Ferrari, the timing, the drop in pace and the secrecy around it looks more like a coverup then a "we couldn't prove anything'.

Looking back what Todt did from 1993 onwards, building Ferrari: Getting the best assets from every successful team on the grid. PMI from McLaren, with their whole marketing power, Shell resurrected from Honda/PMI, Brawn, Byrne from Benneton and the best driver on the grid, Senna and after his death Schumacher. And still it took six years before the first WCC came.

As all new era champions (after Chapman, Dennis, Williams and Brawn) Wolff set new standards in F1. The way he and his team structured Mercedes is next level, just like every great driver champion added something extra to the pallet of a champion. Wolff made a organization that is not dependable of a single person or big names, but where those talents do feel at home and are able to deliver their best work. Just imagine what would happen to RedBull if Newey really left (well, look at where McLaren and Williams are now) or Benneton and Ferrari after Brawn or Mercedes after Brawn.

While I do agree with a lot of what you write above, it is Jean Todt stating "our technicians say 'we cannot for sure demonstrate as much as we should that they [Ferrari] were not legal." This to me is either we can not demonstrate that they were illegal or we know they were illegal but we can not demonstrate they were.
If the FiA did find prove (demonstrate they were illegal) me thinks even Ferrari would have had its WC team points from last year lost.

[Jolle]

I guess you are right. With being nice and gentle you don’t win F1 championships.
First of all, the FiA, after 4 months of studying, was unable to proof what trickery was going on so the secret agreement came. Why did Ferrari have to stop immediately what was going on, being left with a castrated engine? Mercedes trickery on “oil” burning was slowly reduced over years at a time when Ferrari started the same. And let’s not say it was so difficult to redesign the engine for that.

Knowing the engine was a pussy back in 2020 winter testing, the aero was a mess.... how on earth could Binotto commit to this token system and the budget cap?

That the FIA couldn't find any proof is one theory. Another one is that they did find proof but didn't want to exclude one of Liberies main assets to the F1 brand; Ferrari. That Ferrari didn't use their veto right to block the sudden freeze of development points to the FIA holding Ferrari's balls at the moment, they are on very thin ice. The agrement between FIA and Ferrari, the timing, the drop in pace and the secrecy around it looks more like a coverup then a "we couldn't prove anything'.

Looking back what Todt did from 1993 onwards, building Ferrari: Getting the best assets from every successful team on the grid. PMI from McLaren, with their whole marketing power, Shell resurrected from Honda/PMI, Brawn, Byrne from Benneton and the best driver on the grid, Senna and after his death Schumacher. And still it took six years before the first WCC came.

As all new era champions (after Chapman, Dennis, Williams and Brawn) Wolff set new standards in F1. The way he and his team structured Mercedes is next level, just like every great driver champion added something extra to the pallet of a champion. Wolff made a organization that is not dependable of a single person or big names, but where those talents do feel at home and are able to deliver their best work. Just imagine what would happen to RedBull if Newey really left (well, look at where McLaren and Williams are now) or Benneton and Ferrari after Brawn or Mercedes after Brawn.

While I do agree with a lot of what you write above, it is Jean Todt stating "our technicians say 'we cannot for sure demonstrate as much as we should that they [Ferrari] were not legal." This to me is either we can not demonstrate that they were illegal or we know they were illegal but we can not demonstrate they were.
If the FiA did find prove (demonstrate they were illegal) me thinks even Ferrari would have had its WC team points from last year lost.

There is a precedent from 1994, where there is somehow a loophole that even if you find illegal software and hardware, you have to prove that they have used it. So, it’s quite clear that Ferrari either had some flex in their 2 litre supply after the fuel flow meter or could trick the meter, but the FIA has to prove that they pushed that button.

[hape]

That the FIA couldn't find any proof is one theory. Another one is that they did find proof but didn't want to exclude one of Liberies main assets to the F1 brand; Ferrari. That Ferrari didn't use their veto right to block the sudden freeze of development points to the FIA holding Ferrari's balls at the moment, they are on very thin ice. The agrement between FIA and Ferrari, the timing, the drop in pace and the secrecy around it looks more like a coverup then a "we couldn't prove anything'.

Looking back what Todt did from 1993 onwards, building Ferrari: Getting the best assets from every successful team on the grid. PMI from McLaren, with their whole marketing power, Shell resurrected from Honda/PMI, Brawn, Byrne from Benneton and the best driver on the grid, Senna and after his death Schumacher. And still it took six years before the first WCC came.

As all new era champions (after Chapman, Dennis, Williams and Brawn) Wolff set new standards in F1. The way he and his team structured Mercedes is next level, just like every great driver champion added something extra to the pallet of a champion. Wolff made a organization that is not dependable of a single person or big names, but where those talents do feel at home and are able to deliver their best work. Just imagine what would happen to RedBull if Newey really left (well, look at where McLaren and Williams are now) or Benneton and Ferrari after Brawn or Mercedes after Brawn.

While I do agree with a lot of what you write above, it is Jean Todt stating "our technicians say 'we cannot for sure demonstrate as much as we should that they [Ferrari] were not legal." This to me is either we can not demonstrate that they were illegal or we know they were illegal but we can not demonstrate they were.
If the FiA did find prove (demonstrate they were illegal) me thinks even Ferrari would have had its WC team points from last year lost.

There is a precedent from 1994, where there is somehow a loophole that even if you find illegal software and hardware, you have to prove that they have used it. So, it’s quite clear that Ferrari either had some flex in their 2 litre supply after the fuel flow meter or could trick the meter, but the FIA has to prove that they pushed that button.

But I meant, the phrase “ Another one is that they did find proof but didn't want to exclude one of Liberies main assets to the F1 brand; Ferrari.” is not what Jean Todt is telling us

[zokipirlo]

First I have to say that Mercedes success hasn't started since hybrid era. They probably had the fastest car even before. It just ate tires. Then working from that they worked hard to fix that and keep their speed, including political games in pushing tire development in direction it suited them. Also all rule changes since then suited their car. And then they also had the best engine and it was all over for other teams. Ferrari after Marchione took over recovered and had decent seasons but Mercedes was simply too good

They stopped having problems with tires when Pirelli changed them.

[MtthsMlw]

A new department has been established called "Performance Development Department" run by Enrico Cardile who used to be head of aerodynamics.
https://www.ferrari.com/en-DE/formula1/ ... ia-ferrari

Scuderia Ferrari has restructured its technical department to render it more effective and assure a more holistic emphasis on performance development. This has been achieved by instituting a chain of command that is more focused and simplified and provides the heads of each department the necessary powers to achieve their objectives.

To this end, it has also established a new Performance Development department, headed up by Enrico Cardile.

The other main areas are unchanged with Enrico Gualtieri in charge of the Power Unit, Laurent Mekies as Sporting Director and in charge of trackside activities, while Simone Resta will continue to lead the Chassis Engineering department.

[Manfer]

Article is vague and sounds clickbaity, but might have a hint of truth to it. Someone should ask Binotto at the next TP press conference.

https://www.corriere.it/sport/formula-1 ... 4e25.shtml

[Jolle]

First I have to say that Mercedes success hasn't started since hybrid era. They probably had the fastest car even before. It just ate tires. Then working from that they worked hard to fix that and keep their speed, including political games in pushing tire development in direction it suited them. Also all rule changes since then suited their car. And then they also had the best engine and it was all over for other teams. Ferrari after Marchione took over recovered and had decent seasons but Mercedes was simply too good

They stopped having problems with tires when Pirelli changed them.

Pirelli changed the tires twice in the last decade, you mean the time that RedBull won the remainder of the races or that time after Ferrari had a double DNF at the British GP due to tires exploding?

[dans79]

More information on the restructuring.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... wgt8K.html

[MtthsMlw]

Rory Byrne is also back - full time now? He was lastly involved in the SF70H and its successor.

[donskar]

Seems like shuffling a deck that has no aces -- or just 51 cards.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Push rod suspension does not explain the 1s or so Merc was pulling on Ferrari. There is evidence that shows Merc started their engine development year before anyone else. It was Toto and Ross Brawn who strong armed FIA into moving to the hybrid formula.

...personal stuff removed... Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault all together, along with the FIA(led by Gilles Simon) made the PU regulations. How could anyone have an unfair advantage when they were all present and participating? Merc were believed to have the best KERS system back in 09, why wouldn't they carry that advantage over? If anyone had an advantage it was Ferrari who forced the switch from the original I4 concept to a V6 at the last moment with the threat of using their veto. This switch actually caused the delay of the implementation of the PUs from 2013 to 2014.

The problem with Ferrari is not political, it is technical, they are not using their development tools(cfd, test rigs, engine dynos, etc) properly and as mentioned earlier they are not working well as a team to bring the best compromised solutions for the car.

[dans79]

Seems like shuffling a deck that has no aces -- or just 51 cards.

You could look at it that way, but i think this quote is more telling.

The team say they have instituted "a chain of command that is more focused and simplified and provides the heads of each department the necessary powers to achieve their objectives"

Sometimes just giving people the power to do their job without having to debate everything in a committee, or deal with a micromanaging manager can pay huge dividends down the road.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Also all rule changes since then suited their car.

Were the rules suited to the car or were they just better at suiting their car to the rules? I seem to remember that a lot of Merc innovations were banned too. They were among the first to pioneer the outwash front wing concept and that was hurt by the last set of rule changes too.

IMO, it's Ferrari and Red Bull who haven't been able to cope with the rules rather than the rules being suited to the Mercs.

Well...there is a lot of luck in the game and always the engine. There is not only a "good management" reason for the long wheelbase, I think the engine stands above everything:
A long wheelbase and refined aero with guiding structures produces more drag. Remember the start of the hybrid time when Newey removed all wings/edges from the car.
If you have enough engine power you can have more drag...this is why Merc could easily go this direction. On the other hand especially RedBull and to some degree Ferrari had to stay on a short wheelbase concept with rake where the floor produces downforce with a good drag ratio.
This is also the reason why Ferrari had such a fast straight line car last season: Suddenly they were on par or above Merc with the engine power, but the drag was clearly lower.
It had its reason why they were talking about putting more drag and downforce on the car all season. This was the clear development target.

Then FIA castrated the engine. This was the point where suddenly the "new" aero concept they developed at least for the last year collapsed.

In my point of view the error of Ferrari was to expose themselves too much. With the new engine power they saw some low hanging fruits to catch. So they combined low drag with engine power. Merc reduced its engine power and the politics killed Ferrari...
If they would have been smart they would have put dirty drag on the car once they could release some extra power from the engine. Like this no one would have seen this extra power, no one would have protested and on the long run they could have switched to a aero concept that works without overdoing it on the straights.

I am no aero expert, but everything I've read says that long wheelbase gives lower drag, not more. Long wheelbase, especially how Mercedes increases the distance between the clutch and the rear axle gives much more floor area , thus producing more downforce(from the underside of the floor) which is generally low drag, allowingthem to lower the angle of attack of the rear wing. Also they increased the wheelbase when the cars were widened for 2017 in order to lower drag. The low drag part of the Ferrari were the high inlet sidepods which Merc have finally adopted for 2020 with great effect.

Ferrari's fuel trick was probably found out because of their far greater acceleration between the traction limited and drag limited regions of the acceleration curve. Not much can be down to hide that other than lower the power in that region.

[ENGINE TUNER]

First I have to say that Mercedes success hasn't started since hybrid era. They probably had the fastest car even before. It just ate tires. Then working from that they worked hard to fix that and keep their speed, including political games in pushing tire development in direction it suited them. Also all rule changes since then suited their car. And then they also had the best engine and it was all over for other teams. Ferrari after Marchione took over recovered and had decent seasons but Mercedes was simply too good

They stopped having problems with tires when Pirelli changed them.

Pirelli had to change them because the PUs were going to be putting much more power and energy thru them and also because the straight line terminal speeds were expected to(and did) increase significantly because of more power and the new for 2014 aero regs. The front tires were beefed up so much that they required a second FUA safety tether to be attached to them.