[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[mafeotul]

On every team thread, there are a few posters (not many, just one or two) who have this insane, illogical thought process that, somehow things have been done to help Mercedes, by FIA and Pirelli. While here the talk is about how Pirelli helped Mercedes and the talk on Red Bull team thread is about how the simplified front wing was brought to damage Red Bull. On Mercedes team thread, there are a few who constantly peddle the conspiracy theory of how Mercedes is favoring Lewis and undermining the other guy. No one wants to believe that Mercedes has been doing a better job of building cars that works well on any given regulations since 2014 and they are driving the team better than anyone else.

No matter how logical you want to argue, these guys aren't going to believe, because their thought process is like the substance that keeps them happy. Red Bull and Ferrari teams themselves would feel ashamed from such conspiracies. Both of these teams know they haven't done a 100% job and would be happy to focus on building better cars.

Cannot agree more,

On every platform of conversation, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, here and on every forum, you find the same inane arguments. Devoid of all logic, devoid of reason, spat out by people whom have little to no experience with F1 and its history. I have lost hours arguing with such people, until i am now completely disgusted with such individuals. The Valtteri is second man arguments, the FIA loves Mercedes, Pirelli loves Mercedes, stewards love Mercedes, GOD loves Mercedes etc. Everything else is a conspiracy, everyone is secretly sabotaging every team, the FIA wants all teams to do bad appart from Mercedes.

It is appalling, and i am shocked fans are so self obsessed with their teams as to not see the utter incompetence displayed by Ferrari and RedBull for many years, some with nearly the same amount of money, some with more.

It's "Proportionality bias". Mercedes has had an amazing string of seasons and so there must be something amazing happening behind the scenes to let that happen. Because there is no way my favorite team would be this far behind for these number of seasons if Mercedes was playing fair. Then enters confirmation bias when Bottas doesn't get penalized for his start, or Lewis doesn't get penalized for x action.

It's the same concept on how people believe in a flat earth among other things.

Unfortunately, it is hard to get through to people who hold such beliefs. Any evidence you present will only make them dig deeper into their belief that there is some conspiracy to make Mercedes rule F1. If only people thought about the simplest reasons first, such as, maybe Ferrari simply got it wrong? Or maybe the mistakes made by Ferrari in 2017/18 cost them titles that would have been within their reach? Maybe Mercedes is simply operating at a higher level than everyone else on the grid at the moment?

What really grinds my gear is the constant, please neuter them, take the performance away, allow mediocrity to rule F1 again, ban this, ban that, ban Racing Point, ban DAS, change rules every 5 minutes so that the Maranello Disaster can cheat themselves again to pole positions. I wonder how Horner hasn’t popped a vein this week without protesting something.

F1 is dying, not because of Mercedes, because of Ferrari and the rest being unable to operate within acceptable parameters. Since we are on the Scuderia’s page.

2017 - equal car. Failed

2018 - better car. Failed.

2019- best engine ( however it was ) Failed.

Money spent - around 1.5 - 2 billion. Titles 0.

Still Mercs fault i assume.

[basti313]

If you keep blaming others, you’re never going to improve

After all this "Mercedes is just better" and "Mercedes is helped by FIA" yin yang...ok mostly it was yang here not much yin...
The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.
We know it since years and I do not know why someone still asks the question "why is Mercedes better?".
Honda made an engine that does not explode every race. Ferrari without the cheat is behind Renault....and they are miles behind Mercedes, a blunt copy of last year with mediocre drivers is fighting for podiums in races with changing conditions...

For me it is cleat that in an engine performance based formula it is difficult to fight one of the best engine constructors. In pure road car engines I would rate BMW higher, but with the truck knowledge and the target to exploit every drop of petrol, I thing Mercedes has the most knowledge in the company. Some mediocre engine builders like Fiat or Renault can not compete with this, Honda is still years behind in the development. With the V8 Merc also had the best engine, Renault was only competitive by luck once they could exploit the exhaust gas. RedBull would have won against Brawn with the same engine.

The big problem for Ferrari now is that they have a worse engine and have to live with it...also for the next rules and as aero is more limited, it will be an even bigger difference. This is not Mercs fault. But on the long run I think F1 will not survive this if they do not apply a BOP on the engines. The V8s were quite similar and we had 4 engines competing which were at least once P1 or P2 in the WCC. We had the stupid RedBull domination, but as the budget is limited, CFD and wind tunnel is limited, there is some sort of BOP in aero. We need the same for engines.

[mafeotul]

If you keep blaming others, you’re never going to improve

After all this "Mercedes is just better" and "Mercedes is helped by FIA" yin yang...ok mostly it was yang here not much yin...
The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.
We know it since years and I do not know why someone still asks the question "why is Mercedes better?".
Honda made an engine that does not explode every race. Ferrari without the cheat is behind Renault....and they are miles behind Mercedes, a blunt copy of last year with mediocre drivers is fighting for podiums in races with changing conditions...

For me it is cleat that in an engine performance based formula it is difficult to fight one of the best engine constructors. In pure road car engines I would rate BMW higher, but with the truck knowledge and the target to exploit every drop of petrol, I thing Mercedes has the most knowledge in the company. Some mediocre engine builders like Fiat or Renault can not compete with this, Honda is still years behind in the development. With the V8 Merc also had the best engine, Renault was only competitive by luck once they could exploit the exhaust gas. RedBull would have won against Brawn with the same engine.

The big problem for Ferrari now is that they have a worse engine and have to live with it...also for the next rules and as aero is more limited, it will be an even bigger difference. This is not Mercs fault. But on the long run I think F1 will not survive this if they do not apply a BOP on the engines. The V8s were quite similar and we had 4 engines competing which were at least once P1 or P2 in the WCC. We had the stupid RedBull domination, but as the budget is limited, CFD and wind tunnel is limited, there is some sort of BOP in aero. We need the same for engines.

At this stage, if i were Ferrari i would take a serious look into Engine development above all else for at least three years. Certainly they have the funds, and the customer teams for information and benchmarking.

I highly doubt Mercedes PU will slow down in development. With that much advantage, this will more than likely cross-over into 2022, and that will be a massive blow everyone in the paddock.

[basti313]

If you keep blaming others, you’re never going to improve

After all this "Mercedes is just better" and "Mercedes is helped by FIA" yin yang...ok mostly it was yang here not much yin...
The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.
We know it since years and I do not know why someone still asks the question "why is Mercedes better?".
Honda made an engine that does not explode every race. Ferrari without the cheat is behind Renault....and they are miles behind Mercedes, a blunt copy of last year with mediocre drivers is fighting for podiums in races with changing conditions...

For me it is cleat that in an engine performance based formula it is difficult to fight one of the best engine constructors. In pure road car engines I would rate BMW higher, but with the truck knowledge and the target to exploit every drop of petrol, I thing Mercedes has the most knowledge in the company. Some mediocre engine builders like Fiat or Renault can not compete with this, Honda is still years behind in the development. With the V8 Merc also had the best engine, Renault was only competitive by luck once they could exploit the exhaust gas. RedBull would have won against Brawn with the same engine.

The big problem for Ferrari now is that they have a worse engine and have to live with it...also for the next rules and as aero is more limited, it will be an even bigger difference. This is not Mercs fault. But on the long run I think F1 will not survive this if they do not apply a BOP on the engines. The V8s were quite similar and we had 4 engines competing which were at least once P1 or P2 in the WCC. We had the stupid RedBull domination, but as the budget is limited, CFD and wind tunnel is limited, there is some sort of BOP in aero. We need the same for engines.

At this stage, if i were Ferrari i would take a serious look into Engine development above all else for at least three years. Certainly they have the funds, and the customer teams for information and benchmarking.

I highly doubt Mercedes PU will slow down in development. With that much advantage, this will more than likely cross-over into 2022, and that will be a massive blow everyone in the paddock.

I totally agree with the conclusion for 2022.

But I doubt that development can solve anything. Even if Ferrari would have the power to just do engine testing with Alfa...or even call off the season and do it themselves, the current rules would not allow them to make the necessary jumps.

[mafeotul]

After all this "Mercedes is just better" and "Mercedes is helped by FIA" yin yang...ok mostly it was yang here not much yin...
The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.
We know it since years and I do not know why someone still asks the question "why is Mercedes better?".
Honda made an engine that does not explode every race. Ferrari without the cheat is behind Renault....and they are miles behind Mercedes, a blunt copy of last year with mediocre drivers is fighting for podiums in races with changing conditions...

For me it is cleat that in an engine performance based formula it is difficult to fight one of the best engine constructors. In pure road car engines I would rate BMW higher, but with the truck knowledge and the target to exploit every drop of petrol, I thing Mercedes has the most knowledge in the company. Some mediocre engine builders like Fiat or Renault can not compete with this, Honda is still years behind in the development. With the V8 Merc also had the best engine, Renault was only competitive by luck once they could exploit the exhaust gas. RedBull would have won against Brawn with the same engine.

The big problem for Ferrari now is that they have a worse engine and have to live with it...also for the next rules and as aero is more limited, it will be an even bigger difference. This is not Mercs fault. But on the long run I think F1 will not survive this if they do not apply a BOP on the engines. The V8s were quite similar and we had 4 engines competing which were at least once P1 or P2 in the WCC. We had the stupid RedBull domination, but as the budget is limited, CFD and wind tunnel is limited, there is some sort of BOP in aero. We need the same for engines.

At this stage, if i were Ferrari i would take a serious look into Engine development above all else for at least three years. Certainly they have the funds, and the customer teams for information and benchmarking.

I highly doubt Mercedes PU will slow down in development. With that much advantage, this will more than likely cross-over into 2022, and that will be a massive blow everyone in the paddock.

I totally agree with the conclusion for 2022.

But I doubt that development can solve anything. Even if Ferrari would have the power to just do engine testing with Alfa...or even call off the season and do it themselves, the current rules would not allow them to make the necessary jumps.

Realistically, 2022 remains their only hope to bridge the gap. I have seen reports saying 100BHP at least down on raw output. The true question remains, not if they can, or cannot, but simply when. I mean, i know they are not Renault, or Honda so i still trust Ferrari as a competitor to get at least this deficit down by 2022.

[Jolle]

If you keep blaming others, you’re never going to improve

After all this "Mercedes is just better" and "Mercedes is helped by FIA" yin yang...ok mostly it was yang here not much yin...
The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.
We know it since years and I do not know why someone still asks the question "why is Mercedes better?".
Honda made an engine that does not explode every race. Ferrari without the cheat is behind Renault....and they are miles behind Mercedes, a blunt copy of last year with mediocre drivers is fighting for podiums in races with changing conditions...

For me it is cleat that in an engine performance based formula it is difficult to fight one of the best engine constructors. In pure road car engines I would rate BMW higher, but with the truck knowledge and the target to exploit every drop of petrol, I thing Mercedes has the most knowledge in the company. Some mediocre engine builders like Fiat or Renault can not compete with this, Honda is still years behind in the development. With the V8 Merc also had the best engine, Renault was only competitive by luck once they could exploit the exhaust gas. RedBull would have won against Brawn with the same engine.

The big problem for Ferrari now is that they have a worse engine and have to live with it...also for the next rules and as aero is more limited, it will be an even bigger difference. This is not Mercs fault. But on the long run I think F1 will not survive this if they do not apply a BOP on the engines. The V8s were quite similar and we had 4 engines competing which were at least once P1 or P2 in the WCC. We had the stupid RedBull domination, but as the budget is limited, CFD and wind tunnel is limited, there is some sort of BOP in aero. We need the same for engines.

The last years of the V8's was kinda unworthy of F1 for me, the rev limit and the engine freeze basically gave everybody about the same amount of power. Good for equality but.. hey... this is Formula 1, it's about building the best car for the best drivers, not a spec series.

As for engines, I think Mercedes understood the new formula from the get-go the best. "Old school" race engine designers think in revs, getting in more air and maximizing fuel, while the new formula is all about burning as much as the fuel you can in a single stroke, much more indeed like a diesel or a truck. All of the knowlage of how to burn as much fuel as you could in a minute was useless. Many of the features of the W05 engine were aimed at being as efficient as possible, like the log exhaust (less heat loss) and the split turbo. At big red it needed a back marker to show them that wrapping the exhaust would boost horsepower....

By the way, there was some kind of cap, just like CFD in the beginning of the new engine formula... but it was discarded to give Ferrari, Renault and Honda more possibilities to catch up.

As for the rest of the car, it's not all just the engine. The rest is also underwhelming for a team of their stature. The different concepts of noses almost changes as much as team managers, the one they have now looks like it comes from a lego box, while the competition already smoothen them out over the past two seasons, the front end had no feeling from 2011 until 2015 because they had a pull rod suspension that they dropped the wishbones so much in 2014 that it was almost underivable. The whole sidepod concept changed a couple of times and most of the in season updates were send back to the factory because of correlation problems.

Mercedes on the other hand, the whole concept of the W11 is directly relatable for the W05, so every part already has tons of data from every literation. The whole time they have stuck with the concept that air from the side of the nose, goes under the wishbones, around the undercut to the diffuser. While Ferrari tried different aproaches, under... over... and now over again, giving them a disadvantage of about 4 years of development. You could call the W11 the W05G.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Not talking about that, more toward thinner threads. When Mercedes was overheating them, they changed it first for few races in 2018 and keep that for 2019. They had the same problem also when Schumi was driving for them; they were very quick on qualification but destorying them on a race. With such a big gap they had in 2014 and 2015 this were hidden, because they could drive much more sensitive. and become more obvious in 2016 and 2017 and totally obvious in 2018 when Pirelli saved them. How they start to understand tires is just bullshit.

Everybody was overheating them, not just Merc. Observe Kimi's tire after Monza 18

https://images.app.goo.gl/r8ggsf6hBwd4VnP7A

You are posting nonsense, the thinner tires helped everyone, Vettel even said they were necessary. The blistering was leading to delaminations that were unsafe across the grid. And those thinner tires led to much better racing. Thinner tires are not why Ferrari failed. Thinner tread tires are not why VET kept crashing.

[mafeotul]

If you keep blaming others, you’re never going to improve

After all this "Mercedes is just better" and "Mercedes is helped by FIA" yin yang...ok mostly it was yang here not much yin...
The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.
We know it since years and I do not know why someone still asks the question "why is Mercedes better?".
Honda made an engine that does not explode every race. Ferrari without the cheat is behind Renault....and they are miles behind Mercedes, a blunt copy of last year with mediocre drivers is fighting for podiums in races with changing conditions...

For me it is cleat that in an engine performance based formula it is difficult to fight one of the best engine constructors. In pure road car engines I would rate BMW higher, but with the truck knowledge and the target to exploit every drop of petrol, I thing Mercedes has the most knowledge in the company. Some mediocre engine builders like Fiat or Renault can not compete with this, Honda is still years behind in the development. With the V8 Merc also had the best engine, Renault was only competitive by luck once they could exploit the exhaust gas. RedBull would have won against Brawn with the same engine.

The big problem for Ferrari now is that they have a worse engine and have to live with it...also for the next rules and as aero is more limited, it will be an even bigger difference. This is not Mercs fault. But on the long run I think F1 will not survive this if they do not apply a BOP on the engines. The V8s were quite similar and we had 4 engines competing which were at least once P1 or P2 in the WCC. We had the stupid RedBull domination, but as the budget is limited, CFD and wind tunnel is limited, there is some sort of BOP in aero. We need the same for engines.

The last years of the V8's was kinda unworthy of F1 for me, the rev limit and the engine freeze basically gave everybody about the same amount of power. Good for equality but.. hey... this is Formula 1, it's about building the best car for the best drivers, not a spec series.

As for engines, I think Mercedes understood the new formula from the get-go the best. "Old school" race engine designers think in revs, getting in more air and maximizing fuel, while the new formula is all about burning as much as the fuel you can in a single stroke, much more indeed like a diesel or a truck. All of the knowlage of how to burn as much fuel as you could in a minute was useless. Many of the features of the W05 engine were aimed at being as efficient as possible, like the log exhaust (less heat loss) and the split turbo. At big red it needed a back marker to show them that wrapping the exhaust would boost horsepower....

By the way, there was some kind of cap, just like CFD in the beginning of the new engine formula... but it was discarded to give Ferrari, Renault and Honda more possibilities to catch up.

As for the rest of the car, it's not all just the engine. The rest is also underwhelming for a team of their stature. The different concepts of noses almost changes as much as team managers, the one they have now looks like it comes from a lego box, while the competition already smoothen them out over the past two seasons, the front end had no feeling from 2011 until 2015 because they had a pull rod suspension that they dropped the wishbones so much in 2014 that it was almost underivable. The whole sidepod concept changed a couple of times and most of the in season updates were send back to the factory because of correlation problems.

Mercedes on the other hand, the whole concept of the W11 is directly relatable for the W05, so every part already has tons of data from every literation. The whole time they have stuck with the concept that air from the side of the nose, goes under the wishbones, around the undercut to the diffuser. While Ferrari tried different aproaches, under... over... and now over again, giving them a disadvantage of about 4 years of development. You could call the W11 the W05G.

What made the 2017/2018 cars so good for Ferrari then, and how on earth have they went from the best overall ( 2018 ) car on the grid to the Current car?

[Jolle]

After all this "Mercedes is just better" and "Mercedes is helped by FIA" yin yang...ok mostly it was yang here not much yin...
The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.
We know it since years and I do not know why someone still asks the question "why is Mercedes better?".
Honda made an engine that does not explode every race. Ferrari without the cheat is behind Renault....and they are miles behind Mercedes, a blunt copy of last year with mediocre drivers is fighting for podiums in races with changing conditions...

For me it is cleat that in an engine performance based formula it is difficult to fight one of the best engine constructors. In pure road car engines I would rate BMW higher, but with the truck knowledge and the target to exploit every drop of petrol, I thing Mercedes has the most knowledge in the company. Some mediocre engine builders like Fiat or Renault can not compete with this, Honda is still years behind in the development. With the V8 Merc also had the best engine, Renault was only competitive by luck once they could exploit the exhaust gas. RedBull would have won against Brawn with the same engine.

The big problem for Ferrari now is that they have a worse engine and have to live with it...also for the next rules and as aero is more limited, it will be an even bigger difference. This is not Mercs fault. But on the long run I think F1 will not survive this if they do not apply a BOP on the engines. The V8s were quite similar and we had 4 engines competing which were at least once P1 or P2 in the WCC. We had the stupid RedBull domination, but as the budget is limited, CFD and wind tunnel is limited, there is some sort of BOP in aero. We need the same for engines.

The last years of the V8's was kinda unworthy of F1 for me, the rev limit and the engine freeze basically gave everybody about the same amount of power. Good for equality but.. hey... this is Formula 1, it's about building the best car for the best drivers, not a spec series.

As for engines, I think Mercedes understood the new formula from the get-go the best. "Old school" race engine designers think in revs, getting in more air and maximizing fuel, while the new formula is all about burning as much as the fuel you can in a single stroke, much more indeed like a diesel or a truck. All of the knowlage of how to burn as much fuel as you could in a minute was useless. Many of the features of the W05 engine were aimed at being as efficient as possible, like the log exhaust (less heat loss) and the split turbo. At big red it needed a back marker to show them that wrapping the exhaust would boost horsepower....

By the way, there was some kind of cap, just like CFD in the beginning of the new engine formula... but it was discarded to give Ferrari, Renault and Honda more possibilities to catch up.

As for the rest of the car, it's not all just the engine. The rest is also underwhelming for a team of their stature. The different concepts of noses almost changes as much as team managers, the one they have now looks like it comes from a lego box, while the competition already smoothen them out over the past two seasons, the front end had no feeling from 2011 until 2015 because they had a pull rod suspension that they dropped the wishbones so much in 2014 that it was almost underivable. The whole sidepod concept changed a couple of times and most of the in season updates were send back to the factory because of correlation problems.

Mercedes on the other hand, the whole concept of the W11 is directly relatable for the W05, so every part already has tons of data from every literation. The whole time they have stuck with the concept that air from the side of the nose, goes under the wishbones, around the undercut to the diffuser. While Ferrari tried different aproaches, under... over... and now over again, giving them a disadvantage of about 4 years of development. You could call the W11 the W05G.

What made the 2017/2018 cars so good for Ferrari then, and how on earth have they went from the best overall ( 2018 ) car on the grid to the Current car?

First, they ditched their pull rod suspension so the car was less horrible in the front, got a small reset because everybody had to change the width of the cars, Renault f-ed up their engine upgrades and the Mercedes was not the best at high downforce tracks. Also. They played with the battery and later with the fuel flow.

[Xwang]

After all this "Mercedes is just better" and "Mercedes is helped by FIA" yin yang...ok mostly it was yang here not much yin...
The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.
We know it since years and I do not know why someone still asks the question "why is Mercedes better?".
Honda made an engine that does not explode every race. Ferrari without the cheat is behind Renault....and they are miles behind Mercedes, a blunt copy of last year with mediocre drivers is fighting for podiums in races with changing conditions...

For me it is cleat that in an engine performance based formula it is difficult to fight one of the best engine constructors. In pure road car engines I would rate BMW higher, but with the truck knowledge and the target to exploit every drop of petrol, I thing Mercedes has the most knowledge in the company. Some mediocre engine builders like Fiat or Renault can not compete with this, Honda is still years behind in the development. With the V8 Merc also had the best engine, Renault was only competitive by luck once they could exploit the exhaust gas. RedBull would have won against Brawn with the same engine.

The big problem for Ferrari now is that they have a worse engine and have to live with it...also for the next rules and as aero is more limited, it will be an even bigger difference. This is not Mercs fault. But on the long run I think F1 will not survive this if they do not apply a BOP on the engines. The V8s were quite similar and we had 4 engines competing which were at least once P1 or P2 in the WCC. We had the stupid RedBull domination, but as the budget is limited, CFD and wind tunnel is limited, there is some sort of BOP in aero. We need the same for engines.

The last years of the V8's was kinda unworthy of F1 for me, the rev limit and the engine freeze basically gave everybody about the same amount of power. Good for equality but.. hey... this is Formula 1, it's about building the best car for the best drivers, not a spec series.

As for engines, I think Mercedes understood the new formula from the get-go the best. "Old school" race engine designers think in revs, getting in more air and maximizing fuel, while the new formula is all about burning as much as the fuel you can in a single stroke, much more indeed like a diesel or a truck. All of the knowlage of how to burn as much fuel as you could in a minute was useless. Many of the features of the W05 engine were aimed at being as efficient as possible, like the log exhaust (less heat loss) and the split turbo. At big red it needed a back marker to show them that wrapping the exhaust would boost horsepower....

By the way, there was some kind of cap, just like CFD in the beginning of the new engine formula... but it was discarded to give Ferrari, Renault and Honda more possibilities to catch up.

As for the rest of the car, it's not all just the engine. The rest is also underwhelming for a team of their stature. The different concepts of noses almost changes as much as team managers, the one they have now looks like it comes from a lego box, while the competition already smoothen them out over the past two seasons, the front end had no feeling from 2011 until 2015 because they had a pull rod suspension that they dropped the wishbones so much in 2014 that it was almost underivable. The whole sidepod concept changed a couple of times and most of the in season updates were send back to the factory because of correlation problems.

Mercedes on the other hand, the whole concept of the W11 is directly relatable for the W05, so every part already has tons of data from every literation. The whole time they have stuck with the concept that air from the side of the nose, goes under the wishbones, around the undercut to the diffuser. While Ferrari tried different aproaches, under... over... and now over again, giving them a disadvantage of about 4 years of development. You could call the W11 the W05G.

What made the 2017/2018 cars so good for Ferrari then, and how on earth have they went from the best overall ( 2018 ) car on the grid to the Current car?

From the technical side:
Firstly different tyres were introduced in 2019 similar to the special ones used in 3 GPs in 2018.
Secondly Ferrari used front blown axle which was banned in 2019 with a first reduction in the capability to create an outwash flow able to limit the amount of front wheels wakes entering under the floor.
Thirdly front wing rules were changed with another reduction to the outwash.
High rakes cars have more difficulties in sealing the floor than low rake ones and the outwash was, until 2018, very helpful in achieving that.

From the organisation point of view:
the loss of Sergio Marchionne (then President and CEO of Ferrari) for sure has destabilized the working ambient with Marchionne's replacements (Elkan and Cammilleri) not able until now to give a clear direction (both do not seem to be enough involved in the F1 and its racing spirit and whenever they speak it is clear that they do not care at all if Ferrari is competitive or not, they seem only two "beans counting" managers).

[GPR-A]

The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.

Mercedes dumped millions for new hybrid engine? Where did you get that info?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ory?page=1
Mercedes HPP Employees and expenses.
Year - Employees - Spent (Million Pounds)
---------------------------------------------------
2010 - 428 - 23.1
2011 - 463 - 25.4
2012 - 502 - 28.8
2013 - 523 - 31.0
2014 - 538 - 38.3
2015 - 550 - 39.6
2016 - 571 - 42.5
2017 - 637 - 52.4
2018 - 695 - 57.1

[Xwang]

The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.

Mercedes dumped millions for new hybrid engine? Where did you get that info?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ory?page=1
Mercedes HPP Employees and expenses.
Year - Employees - Spent (Million Pounds)
---------------------------------------------------
2010 - 428 - 23.1
2011 - 463 - 25.4
2012 - 502 - 28.8
2013 - 523 - 31.0
2014 - 538 - 38.3
2015 - 550 - 39.6
2016 - 571 - 42.5
2017 - 637 - 52.4
2018 - 695 - 57.1

According to these data in 2010 the average expense for employer was 53900£ and 82158£ in 2018.
IMHO the Spent column does not seem to count all the expenses (I suppose that that column should include all the wages costs but also the costs of hardware and software tools, buildings maintenance, energy, the costs for buying all materials and parts to build and test all the engines including the ones used on dyno benchs, etc).
I'm not an expert of UK's financial rules, but something seems missing.

[Harvester]

On every team thread, there are a few posters (not many, just one or two) who have this insane, illogical thought process that, somehow things have been done to help Mercedes, by FIA and Pirelli. While here the talk is about how Pirelli helped Mercedes and the talk on Red Bull team thread is about how the simplified front wing was brought to damage Red Bull. On Mercedes team thread, there are a few who constantly peddle the conspiracy theory of how Mercedes is favoring Lewis and undermining the other guy. No one wants to believe that Mercedes has been doing a better job of building cars that works well on any given regulations since 2014 and they are driving the team better than anyone else.

No matter how logical you want to argue, these guys aren't going to believe, because their thought process is like the substance that keeps them happy. Red Bull and Ferrari teams themselves would feel ashamed from such conspiracies. Both of these teams know they haven't done a 100% job and would be happy to focus on building better cars.

Cannot agree more,

On every platform of conversation, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, here and on every forum, you find the same inane arguments. Devoid of all logic, devoid of reason, spat out by people whom have little to no experience with F1 and its history. I have lost hours arguing with such people, until i am now completely disgusted with such individuals. The Valtteri is second man arguments, the FIA loves Mercedes, Pirelli loves Mercedes, stewards love Mercedes, GOD loves Mercedes etc. Everything else is a conspiracy, everyone is secretly sabotaging every team, the FIA wants all teams to do bad appart from Mercedes.

It is appalling, and i am shocked fans are so self obsessed with their teams as to not see the utter incompetence displayed by Ferrari and RedBull for many years, some with nearly the same amount of money, some with more.

Yea I understand both of you.

However, if you follow f1 closely there is no doubt that a lot of rule changes and tire changes suited Mercedes better than Red Bull and Ferrari. I don't want to say that there is conspiracy. It can be just that it is the way things happened and that Mercedes did obviously a better job by choosing the right development direction.
On the other hand if you think that there are no political games in f1 you are very naive.
There is no doubt that each team wants the rules to go in direction they want.
Just remember that it was clear that Mercedes would leave f1 if they didn't change to hybrid.

[GPR-A]

The simple point is that Mercedes dumped millions on the new hybrid engine. Additionally years of knowledge in combustion chamber design within the company, half of the design came directly from Stuttgart.

Mercedes dumped millions for new hybrid engine? Where did you get that info?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ory?page=1
Mercedes HPP Employees and expenses.
Year - Employees - Spent (Million Pounds)
---------------------------------------------------
2010 - 428 - 23.1
2011 - 463 - 25.4
2012 - 502 - 28.8
2013 - 523 - 31.0
2014 - 538 - 38.3
2015 - 550 - 39.6
2016 - 571 - 42.5
2017 - 637 - 52.4
2018 - 695 - 57.1

According to these data in 2010 the average expense for employer was 53900£ and 82158£ in 2018.
IMHO the Spent column does not seem to count all the expenses (I suppose that that column should include all the wages costs but also the costs of hardware and software tools, buildings maintenance, energy, the costs for buying all materials and parts to build and test all the engines including the ones used on dyno benchs, etc).
I'm not an expert of UK's financial rules, but something seems missing.

I have posted the link where you would find detailed yearly financial statement. You can go through to get yourself a better understanding of all their expenses. What i have posted is Salaries and Wages. The overall expenses trend is no different. It was easy to look what the spend is for Mercedes HPP as its a separately registered public entity.

At least there is that bit of transparency. Whereas for for all the other manufacturers, Ferrari, Honda and Renault, it rolls up into the parent company's expenses and quite difficult to get the segregation. If someone has the way to know it segregated for other manufacturers, please let me know.

FYI. Mercedes HPP is not just handling F1 project anymore. They also run Formula E project and other Hybrid services for Mercedes road cars from the past couple of years.

[Xwang]

Mercedes dumped millions for new hybrid engine? Where did you get that info?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ory?page=1
Mercedes HPP Employees and expenses.
Year - Employees - Spent (Million Pounds)
---------------------------------------------------
2010 - 428 - 23.1
2011 - 463 - 25.4
2012 - 502 - 28.8
2013 - 523 - 31.0
2014 - 538 - 38.3
2015 - 550 - 39.6
2016 - 571 - 42.5
2017 - 637 - 52.4
2018 - 695 - 57.1

According to these data in 2010 the average expense for employer was 53900£ and 82158£ in 2018.
IMHO the Spent column does not seem to count all the expenses (I suppose that that column should include all the wages costs but also the costs of hardware and software tools, buildings maintenance, energy, the costs for buying all materials and parts to build and test all the engines including the ones used on dyno benchs, etc).
I'm not an expert of UK's financial rules, but something seems missing.

I have posted the link where you would find detailed yearly financial statement. You can go through to get yourself a better understanding of all their expenses. What i have posted is Salaries and Wages. The overall expenses trend is no different. It was easy to look what the spend is for Mercedes HPP as its a separately registered public entity.

At least there is that bit of transparency. Whereas for for all the other manufacturers, Ferrari, Honda and Renault, it rolls up into the parent company's expenses and quite difficult to get the segregation. If someone has the way to know it segregated for other manufacturers, please let me know.

FYI. Mercedes HPP is not just handling F1 project anymore. They also run Formula E project and other Hybrid services for Mercedes road cars from the past couple of years.

Sorry, maybe I've misunderstood you but it seemed as the data was put to demonstrate that Mercedes did not dump millions for new hybrid engine.