[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[diffuser]

I think some people overcomplicate things when they start talking a gps traces complex tools that only big teams have then you know they are trying to deceive.just look at sector times and speed traps .Beauty in simplicity every one was carrying maximum downforce.in Hungary sector 1 where power is important the top 10 in speed traps where only Honda and Mercedes cars midfield Renault and tail end Ferrari cars same can be said about sector times.you don't need phd to figure these out.

Some people try to over simplify things.

You're presuming that higher top speed means that the PU has more power and that is wrong.

You're presuming full DF means that they all have the same Df and drag, again wrong.

I think your using those numbers because it is kind of a selffulfilling prophicy. You want to be able to say that the Honda PU has more power regardless of what the truth is.

[Bill]

We saw last year with that powerful Ferrari and early days of hybrid Mercedes that top speed in conjunction with sector times is a pretty good and realible indicator were pu manufacturers stuck in the engine pecking order.my point was mainly referring to Hungary were everyone runs maximum downforce with total disregard for drag .ferrari were at tail end in sector 1 because that's what their pu deserve to be and those at the top are there because their pu can deliver the horses.

[Zynerji]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rodynamik/

Thanks for sharing.

One other paragraph is also worth noting:
"In Austria, Red Bull suspected bending in the underbody. According to sports director Helmut Marko, however, this is only part of the truth. "After all the examinations, we can say that the dog is in the aerodynamics. There is something wrong with the inflow. Bending the parts is certainly a point, but the air flow also breaks off for other reasons. For example, because the copied Mercedes nose has been copied poorly."

Last sentence is in German is 'Zum Beispiel weil die kopierte Mercedes-Nase schlecht kopiert wurde'. German is not my native language but I suppose they are indeed pointing to the slim nose and cape, even admitting that their copy concept is not yet working well.

Curious to see if at Silverstone adjustments can be seen in this area!

The cape probably isn't channeling airflow properly to its intended target. I wonder what part of the floor is flexing

We would expect downward flexing of the floor, towards the pavement, due to the extreme low pressure area, correct?

[godlameroso]

Thanks for sharing.

One other paragraph is also worth noting:
"In Austria, Red Bull suspected bending in the underbody. According to sports director Helmut Marko, however, this is only part of the truth. "After all the examinations, we can say that the dog is in the aerodynamics. There is something wrong with the inflow. Bending the parts is certainly a point, but the air flow also breaks off for other reasons. For example, because the copied Mercedes nose has been copied poorly."

Last sentence is in German is 'Zum Beispiel weil die kopierte Mercedes-Nase schlecht kopiert wurde'. German is not my native language but I suppose they are indeed pointing to the slim nose and cape, even admitting that their copy concept is not yet working well.

Curious to see if at Silverstone adjustments can be seen in this area!

The cape probably isn't channeling airflow properly to its intended target. I wonder what part of the floor is flexing

We would expect downward flexing of the floor, towards the pavement, due to the extreme low pressure area, correct?

It could be the floor, it could also be the chassis is causing the floor to flex.

[etusch]

I read a news Marko says their Mercedes like noose didn't worked as they wanted. May be this is not only issue of them but others may related to this one. So which part of car is affected by this kind of noose?

[godlameroso]

All of the car. Everything after the nose. The stupid side pod fences bargeboard and nose work as one.

[ME4ME]

Regarding the nose, I've been thinking over a year now if they aren't trying to be too clever with the ducts at the nose tip. Already last year we saw them experimenting and switching between duct'ed noses and solid/closed ones. In Monaco they raced without the ducts, and did so again at a later venue. They either didn't seem to understand it, or it was only marginally benificial, or it was conditions & track dependent.. It's weird that they continued with that design choice. You'd say as an engineering team you don't need that uncertainty.

[Just_a_fan]

Thanks for sharing.

One other paragraph is also worth noting:
"In Austria, Red Bull suspected bending in the underbody. According to sports director Helmut Marko, however, this is only part of the truth. "After all the examinations, we can say that the dog is in the aerodynamics. There is something wrong with the inflow. Bending the parts is certainly a point, but the air flow also breaks off for other reasons. For example, because the copied Mercedes nose has been copied poorly."

Last sentence is in German is 'Zum Beispiel weil die kopierte Mercedes-Nase schlecht kopiert wurde'. German is not my native language but I suppose they are indeed pointing to the slim nose and cape, even admitting that their copy concept is not yet working well.

Curious to see if at Silverstone adjustments can be seen in this area!

The cape probably isn't channeling airflow properly to its intended target. I wonder what part of the floor is flexing

We would expect downward flexing of the floor, towards the pavement, due to the extreme low pressure area, correct?

The pressure difference isn't "extreme", it's just a small difference applied over a large area. It's more that the floor is thin and relatively flexible. The teams run suspension wires hanging from the gearbox/rear crash structure for this reason. The front wing has a much bigger pressure difference but the structure is reasonably rigid (in comparison to the thin and "floppy" floor).

[diffuser]

We saw last year with that powerful Ferrari and early days of hybrid Mercedes that top speed in conjunction with sector times is a pretty good and realible indicator were pu manufacturers stuck in the engine pecking order.my point was mainly referring to Hungary were everyone runs maximum downforce with total disregard for drag .ferrari were at tail end in sector 1 because that's what their pu deserve to be and those at the top are there because their pu can deliver the horses.

Yes but with Ferrari they also got to the end of the sector with the fastest time in that sector. Looking at Albon in Hungry he had the 4th fastest speed but was 11th in the sector. A wopping 9 Km/h faster than vettel but almost 2 tenths slower.

Sometimes you can get to a higher speed because you have lower DF or less draggy DF but it is actually taking you longer to get to 275Km (for example) and the time you spend at higher speed isn't long enough to over come the slower acceleration. Add to that that you're now travelling faster and have to get on the brakes sooner and take longer to brake. That's why they do all that GPS stuff

[Bill]

Albon is not a good benchmark to use Max is that Rbr chassis is a handful to drive.sector 1 in Hungary is not pure straight it has a hairpin and a slow corner .
To quote Marko" The dog is in the aerodynamics " is clear Rbr chassis is lacking all these talk of pu is pointless in the grand scheme of things. Honda invested lots of money last they were expecting a championship fight Redbull should deliver.Redbull mentally doesn't look like a team ready to fight for championship the four champs they won got into their head any slight pace shortfall is immediately blamed on pu without even proper analysis.

[godlameroso]

Albon is not a good benchmark to use Max is that Rbr chassis is a handful to drive.sector 1 in Hungary is not pure straight it has a hairpin and a slow corner .
To quote Marko" The dog is in the aerodynamics " is clear Rbr chassis is lacking all these talk of pu is pointless in the grand scheme of things. Honda invested lots of money last they were expecting a championship fight Redbull should deliver.Redbull mentally doesn't look like a team ready to fight for championship the four champs they won got into their head any slight pace shortfall is immediately blamed on pu without even proper analysis.

What are you talking about? They admitted the problem is the chassis, they're not saying anything about Honda. It's frustrating that the engine spec is essentially frozen. However there is still a chance to add reliability to run at higher engine modes for longer. Also, we don't know how much performance can be unlocked once they get on top of the car.

Perhaps it's a chassis flex issue, not just floor. They're the second fastest car in the race, what's different in race conditions? Drivers have to lift and coast a little, and generally be a bit more gentle driving due to the tires. Because of this forced driving style it masks the issues that are apparent in qualifying where drivers don't have to worry about having a charged ERS. Perhaps getting on top of these issues would improve qualifying performance but have a lesser effect on race pace.

[Bill]

Were the hell have you been they blamed the pu after Austria race Marko specifically said they were fast in corners and lacking in the straights even Max said that during interview after the race. What Marko said has influenced what journalists wrote and numbers have been flying around about the "Gap "to Merc pu

Rbr maybe now retracting their past words but it doesn't change the fact.

[etusch]

Were the hell have you been they blamed the pu after Austria race Marko specifically said they were fast in corners and lacking in the straights even Max said that during interview after the race. What Marko said has influenced what journalists wrote and numbers have been flying around about the "Gap "to Merc pu

Rbr maybe now retracting their past words but it doesn't change the fact.

yes but it is not freezed there. They finally understand that problem is something with the chassis.

[Juzh]

Were the hell have you been they blamed the pu after Austria race Marko specifically said they were fast in corners and lacking in the straights even Max said that during interview after the race. What Marko said has influenced what journalists wrote and numbers have been flying around about the "Gap "to Merc pu

Rbr maybe now retracting their past words but it doesn't change the fact.

But it's true, merc is ahead on power front. Engine deficit is being dwarfed by chassis shortcomings though, so at this time it's kinda beside the point.

Difference is nowhere near like what it used to be during their time with renault or god forbid that steaming pile of sh*t ferrari currently calls engine, that's why there's not much fuss being made about it.

[Just_a_fan]

Were the hell have you been they blamed the pu after Austria race Marko specifically said they were fast in corners and lacking in the straights even Max said that during interview after the race. What Marko said has influenced what journalists wrote and numbers have been flying around about the "Gap "to Merc pu

Rbr maybe now retracting their past words but it doesn't change the fact.

But it's true, merc is ahead on power front. Engine deficit is being dwarfed by chassis shortcomings though, so at this time it's kinda beside the point.

Difference is nowhere near like what it used to be during their time with renault or god forbid that steaming pile of sh*t ferrari currently calls engine, that's why there's not much fuss being made about it.

Exactly. Back in the Renault days, they got away with blaming the engine and everyone believed them. "Great chassis and aero, terrible engine. If only we had a good engine". Now they've got a decent engine and the non-engine stuff is being showed up. Egg on Horner's face.