[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[Bill]

At these point is debatable Austria is high Altitude and Hungary is pu doesn't play a major role and silverstone Rbr will still have that dog of chassis

We will have to wait for spa to true understand the pu pecking order by then I assume Redbull would have got on top their problems.from limited info I saw Mercedes pu is nothing special relative to the Honda in fact Rbr performed significant better pace wise in power track Austria than in Hungary.

[godlameroso]

You need a powerful engine and good ERS to have good pace around Silverstone, not just downforce.

[tangodjango]

At these point is debatable Austria is high Altitude and Hungary is pu doesn't play a major role and silverstone Rbr will still have that dog of chassis

We will have to wait for spa to true understand the pu pecking order by then I assume Redbull would have got on top their problems.from limited info I saw Mercedes pu is nothing special relative to the Honda in fact Rbr performed significant better pace wise in power track Austria than in Hungary.

Marko/Horner have said Mercedes turn down their engine after the first pit stops. I think Honda is now the second best race engine with Renault maybe slightly higher in peak power during quali. It's clear that Mercedes have a great PU with atleast 25-30 BHP advantage during quali mode. Race mode is debatable because I think the Mercedes works team is running very conservatively during the race due to the uncertainty over length of the season. Honda have done a great job though and maybe the spec 4 they were targeting this year end can be developed into an engine close to Mercedes for next season. If I were RBR I would be very careful about any criticism, even slight or implied about Honda. They have done a sterling job in 3 years and RBR have got the works engine they wanted at the expense of McLaren, it suits no one who wants close competition in F1 if Honda walks away and RBR are sent crawling back to Renault. They would be better off refining their aero correlation and drag/downforce ratio instead of the McLaren style best chassis bullshitting, when this season it's clear Mercedes have their (and every other teams) measure in Engine+Chassis+Suspension+Aero+Tyre Management.

[Juzh]

Were the hell have you been they blamed the pu after Austria race Marko specifically said they were fast in corners and lacking in the straights even Max said that during interview after the race. What Marko said has influenced what journalists wrote and numbers have been flying around about the "Gap "to Merc pu

Rbr maybe now retracting their past words but it doesn't change the fact.

But it's true, merc is ahead on power front. Engine deficit is being dwarfed by chassis shortcomings though, so at this time it's kinda beside the point.

Difference is nowhere near like what it used to be during their time with renault or god forbid that steaming pile of sh*t ferrari currently calls engine, that's why there's not much fuss being made about it.

Exactly. Back in the Renault days, they got away with blaming the engine and everyone believed them. "Great chassis and aero, terrible engine. If only we had a good engine". Now they've got a decent engine and the non-engine stuff is being showed up. Egg on Horner's face.

Tables have turned but it doesn't change the fact Red bull as a car was the best on several occasions. Renault engine back then (until 2019 really) was weak and costing them dearly. Everyone knew that back then. If you don't/didn't then I guess you've got a bit of selective memory going on.

In renault days you really could just glance at speed trap numbers and see instantly how much grunt it was missing, now difference is much smaller and much more nuance is required to differentiate PU perfromance (again, except ferrari).

[Sieper]

Even last year we had a lot of on track stoppage for Renault engine teams. I am not vindictive but surely that was a problem to them. Good that it is going better now. I have had my fair share of frustration with RBR drivers having to stop the car. Hope never to have to see that level of technical issues again.

[Hkbruin2]

Albon will have former trackside race engineer Simon Rennie from this week on. He previously had roles with Danny Ric and Mark Webber. Here’s to hoping this will improve his form and confidence within himself.

https://f1i.com/news/378562-albon-gets- ... -team.html

[Wouter]

Albon will have former trackside race engineer Simon Rennie from this week on. He previously had roles with Danny Ric and Mark Webber. Here’s to hoping this will improve his form and confidence within himself.

https://f1i.com/news/378562-albon-gets- ... -team.html

Thank you @Hkbruin, that is good news!!

Simon Rennie a few years ago.

[McMika98]

Great news for Albon, he will benefit a lot with an experienced engineer. Most of his comms with engineer was limited to BBal 3 BBal 3.
Rennie also worked with Kimi, Alonso and Khbica to name a few.

[TNTHead]

Already posted in the silverstone 1 race thread, but may be worth to repost it here:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... -f1-rivals

Basically saying that the high rake concept is doomed because of the simplified front wing rules leading to unstable aero. Didn't we discuss this here already? Don't want to recycle same ideas, but a new part of the picture may be that the RB16 seems to be designed to beat the slow speed corner advantage Merc had last year which would lead to the unstable aero problems they have right now.

To combine two things:
Could the cape under the nose in any way help slow speed cornering?

[TNTHead]

Already posted in the silverstone 1 race thread, but may be worth to repost it here:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... -f1-rivals

Basically saying that the high rake concept is doomed because of the simplified front wing rules leading to unstable aero. Didn't we discuss this here already? Don't want to recycle same ideas, but a new part of the picture may be that the RB16 seems to be designed to beat the slow speed corner advantage Merc had last year which would lead to the unstable aero problems they have right now.

To combine two things:
Could the cape under the nose in any way help slow speed cornering?

[godlameroso]

It's not doomed. It's just going to take a while to get on top of. The nose, bargeboards, and side pod end fences can help, but there's also the way the floor flexes at speed, along with platform control. Lots of items to sort, but there's real potential there, if the car becomes more confidence inspiring while maintaining the good parts, who knows how much pace they can extract from the package.

[McMika98]

Expecting the car to be more competitive here as it is mostly fast flowing cornwrs and very little slow speed corners.
Pink Merc will be a nightmare though.

[GPR-A]

Already posted in the silverstone 1 race thread, but may be worth to repost it here:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... -f1-rivals

Basically saying that the high rake concept is doomed because of the simplified front wing rules leading to unstable aero. Didn't we discuss this here already? Don't want to recycle same ideas, but a new part of the picture may be that the RB16 seems to be designed to beat the slow speed corner advantage Merc had last year which would lead to the unstable aero problems they have right now.

To combine two things:
Could the cape under the nose in any way help slow speed cornering?

These so called experts are so pathetically predictable. Whoever is winning, declare the concept of their car is the best and the ongoing set of regulations hinder others' concepts. Mercedes struggled in 2017 to get the balance of their car right in 2017 and that car was extremely weak in low speed. All these so called experts blamed their low rake and longer wheel base. They sorted those problems without changing the philosophy.

Now suddenly, the high rake concept is wrong for the current regulations, just because Red Bull is going through challenges.

I have always said that it's about having right people in right places. Capable and Intelligent people can make different concepts work by having innovative solutions and have similarly effective outcomes. Believing that only one concept work at a time is utter rubbish.

[etusch]

These so called experts are so pathetically predictable. Whoever is winning, declare the concept of their car is the best and the ongoing set of regulations hinder others' concepts. Mercedes struggled in 2017 to get the balance of their car right in 2017 and that car was extremely weak in low speed. All these so called experts blamed their low rake and longer wheel base. They sorted those problems without changing the philosophy.

Now suddenly, the high rake concept is wrong for the current regulations, just because Red Bull is going through challenges.

I have always said that it's about having right people in right places. Capable and Intelligent people can make different concepts work by having innovative solutions and have similarly effective outcomes. Believing that only one concept work at a time is utter rubbish.

+100
Agree with you hundred percent. Every concept has their own advantages and disadvantages. They choose it by knowing them and calculating them. Maybe because of they have better ideas with one of them. Redbulls concept is not baseless but proved itself by titles. Mercedes's is same too. They choose and keep it by knowing what they are doing. This simple front wings maybe easy job for mercedes concept and a bit harder for redbull concept. Maybe it is not harder but different. Redbulls need to find what is the problem and then I believe it will not take long time for them to solve it.

[Bill]

To be fair to expects it's Redbull themselves who didn't like the new simplified front wing no need to rehash the past these changes have to go through a voting process.each design philosophy follow the law of physics or aerodynamics so Rbr knew changes would hurt them.