[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[mwillems]

I’d have to agree, Carlos is a very good driver, but he’s not a #1 imo. Next year, Lando and Daniel will take McLaren to the next level. They both have the right stuff to battle for championships imo.

I think next year will be a good measuring stick for both those drivers.

Think you better cut back on the edibles, if think has proven his metal as a great driver.

Yeah I wouldn't be describing either Lando or Daniel as great drivers.

I'd put Slick Rick as an average leading driver, if that makes sense. He's a very capable driver in a top team, but not a Max or a Lewis and in my more subjective opinion, not a Leclerc either, who I think will be amazing sooner rather than later. He's doing to that Ferrari what Alonso could do, drag it to another level. He makes Vettel look worse than he is.

Diffuser, where do you rate Lando and Ric compared to drivers around them?

[SmallSoldier]

I’d have to agree, Carlos is a very good driver, but he’s not a #1 imo. Next year, Lando and Daniel will take McLaren to the next level. They both have the right stuff to battle for championships imo.

I think next year will be a good measuring stick for both those drivers.

Think you better cut back on the edibles, if think has proven his metal as a great driver.

Yeah I wouldn't be describing either Lando or Daniel as great drivers.

I'd put Slick Rick as an average leading driver, if that makes sense. He's a very capable driver in a top team, but not a Max or a Lewis and in my more subjective opinion, not a Leclerc either, who I think will be amazing sooner rather than later. He's doing to that Ferrari what Alonso could do, drag it to another level. He makes Vettel look worse than he is.

Diffuser, where do you rate Lando and Ric compared to drivers around them?

I believe that Leclerc is a solid driver, but I don’t think we have enough data on him (a couple of seasons only) to make assessments in regards to how good he is or start comparing him with drivers that have showed a lot during a lengthy F1 career (i.e. Alonso).

I do believe that Lewis and Max are superlative drivers and they show it most weekends, Dani Ric for me is in a similar level to those 2... Lando is also showing to be a solid driver and like with Leclerc is too soon to make assessments... He is learning and developing and time will tell, but so far all the ingredients seem in place to become a very good driver.


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[FittingMechanics]

Yeah I wouldn't be describing either Lando or Daniel as great drivers.

I'd put Slick Rick as an average leading driver, if that makes sense. He's a very capable driver in a top team, but not a Max or a Lewis and in my more subjective opinion, not a Leclerc either, who I think will be amazing sooner rather than later. He's doing to that Ferrari what Alonso could do, drag it to another level. He makes Vettel look worse than he is.

Diffuser, where do you rate Lando and Ric compared to drivers around them?

I think that the fact that Red Bull cannot find anyone to get within half a second of Verstappen says how good Ricciardo actually was. I understand that part of it can be experience, race engineers and other factors but it's been a 20+ races and in almost all Verstappen absolutely destroyed Gasly and Albon with half a second or more in race pace and qualy pace. I am aware that neither Gasly nor Albon set the world on fire, but they weren't seen as slow before they got into that seat.

It will be very interesting to see what Sainz can do against Leclerc. I wouldn't be surprised if it confirmed the idea that Leclerc is a top tier driver.

[mwillems]

I think next year will be a good measuring stick for both those drivers.

Think you better cut back on the edibles, if think has proven his metal as a great driver.

Yeah I wouldn't be describing either Lando or Daniel as great drivers.

I'd put Slick Rick as an average leading driver, if that makes sense. He's a very capable driver in a top team, but not a Max or a Lewis and in my more subjective opinion, not a Leclerc either, who I think will be amazing sooner rather than later. He's doing to that Ferrari what Alonso could do, drag it to another level. He makes Vettel look worse than he is.

Diffuser, where do you rate Lando and Ric compared to drivers around them?

I believe that Leclerc is a solid driver, but I don’t think we have enough data on him (a couple of seasons only) to make assessments in regards to how good he is or start comparing him with drivers that have showed a lot during a lengthy F1 career (i.e. Alonso).

I do believe that Lewis and Max are superlative drivers and they show it most weekends, Dani Ric for me is in a similar level to those 2... Lando is also showing to be a solid driver and like with Leclerc is too soon to make assessments... He is learning and developing and time will tell, but so far all the ingredients seem in place to become a very good driver.


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Sort of agree with Leclerc as we need more evidence, but I can't at the moment see beyond an inevitable march to being one of the best F1 drivers. He seems to learn from every mistake and relentlessly improves from day one, nothing phases him at all, even the politics with Vettel at Ferrari. He takes it, learns from it, deals with it and moves on to the next challenge, usually having come out of the challenge well.

[mwillems]

Yeah I wouldn't be describing either Lando or Daniel as great drivers.

I'd put Slick Rick as an average leading driver, if that makes sense. He's a very capable driver in a top team, but not a Max or a Lewis and in my more subjective opinion, not a Leclerc either, who I think will be amazing sooner rather than later. He's doing to that Ferrari what Alonso could do, drag it to another level. He makes Vettel look worse than he is.

Diffuser, where do you rate Lando and Ric compared to drivers around them?

I think that the fact that Red Bull cannot find anyone to get within half a second of Verstappen says how good Ricciardo actually was. I understand that part of it can be experience, race engineers and other factors but it's been a 20+ races and in almost all Verstappen absolutely destroyed Gasly and Albon with half a second or more in race pace and qualy pace. I am aware that neither Gasly nor Albon set the world on fire, but they weren't seen as slow before they got into that seat.

It will be very interesting to see what Sainz can do against Leclerc. I wouldn't be surprised if it confirmed the idea that Leclerc is a top tier driver.

I agree but Verstappen has improved a lot since then in his consistency, intelligence and racecraft, not sure I can say the same for Ricciardo but it's hard to tell. I rate him, just in the next tier down from the very elite. More than good enough for Mclaren in their current state though and I'm delighted he is coming.

WIth Leclerc it just seems to be his relentless ability to learn and quickly. I don't know if you guys recall two incidents with Verstappen last year with wheel to wheel racing. Max used his elbows took advantage and got past and Leclrec was surprised at how aggressive it was. Leclerc learned immediately and the next time Max tried again, Leclerc dealt with him in the same manner and to his advantage.

Max seems to have taken a long time to get a level head, grow up and understand it's not just about a blazing lap, but Leclerc has that same pace but his head is screwed on from day one, even in the politics with Vettel. Yeah, safe to say I have big respect for Leclerc!

[Darth-Piekus]

A lot of people rate Lando Norris as the next Hamilton and in my opinion both he and Ricciardo are top material. Give them the same car as Hamilton or Verstappen and they can manage the same.

[SmallSoldier]

Yeah I wouldn't be describing either Lando or Daniel as great drivers.

I'd put Slick Rick as an average leading driver, if that makes sense. He's a very capable driver in a top team, but not a Max or a Lewis and in my more subjective opinion, not a Leclerc either, who I think will be amazing sooner rather than later. He's doing to that Ferrari what Alonso could do, drag it to another level. He makes Vettel look worse than he is.

Diffuser, where do you rate Lando and Ric compared to drivers around them?

I believe that Leclerc is a solid driver, but I don’t think we have enough data on him (a couple of seasons only) to make assessments in regards to how good he is or start comparing him with drivers that have showed a lot during a lengthy F1 career (i.e. Alonso).

I do believe that Lewis and Max are superlative drivers and they show it most weekends, Dani Ric for me is in a similar level to those 2... Lando is also showing to be a solid driver and like with Leclerc is too soon to make assessments... He is learning and developing and time will tell, but so far all the ingredients seem in place to become a very good driver.


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Sort of agree with Leclerc as we need more evidence, but I can't at the moment see beyond an inevitable march to being one of the best F1 drivers. He seems to learn from every mistake and relentlessly improves from day one, nothing phases him at all, even the politics with Vettel at Ferrari. He takes it, learns from it, deals with it and moves on to the next challenge, usually having come out of the challenge well.

There is no doubt that is a good driver, but the same could be said about a lot of other drivers such as Norris or Russell... Even Stroll is showing that he is learning and improving... But, the hype is a little too much given such an small sample to evaluate him... Is he one of the best driver’s out there? Definitely... But, at least in my opinion he is still in that bucket of drivers that are showing great speed and potential.


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[SmallSoldier]

From the team:


“The pecking order
Who are we fighting this year? That’s still a very good question. At times over the first four races we’ve been embroiled in a battle with Racing Point and Ferrari, while at other times, we haven’t. The one consistent data point has been that things are very, very tight between ourselves and Renault. Sunday’s race suggested it’s not simply a case of who has the advantage on a particular track but rather who has an advantage on a specific tyre or individual stint. And having the same engine also takes another variable out of the mix. The British GP was particularly interesting because the relative advantage moved around the lap, which made for a good mix of attack and defence.”


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[mwillems]

I believe that Leclerc is a solid driver, but I don’t think we have enough data on him (a couple of seasons only) to make assessments in regards to how good he is or start comparing him with drivers that have showed a lot during a lengthy F1 career (i.e. Alonso).

I do believe that Lewis and Max are superlative drivers and they show it most weekends, Dani Ric for me is in a similar level to those 2... Lando is also showing to be a solid driver and like with Leclerc is too soon to make assessments... He is learning and developing and time will tell, but so far all the ingredients seem in place to become a very good driver.


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Sort of agree with Leclerc as we need more evidence, but I can't at the moment see beyond an inevitable march to being one of the best F1 drivers. He seems to learn from every mistake and relentlessly improves from day one, nothing phases him at all, even the politics with Vettel at Ferrari. He takes it, learns from it, deals with it and moves on to the next challenge, usually having come out of the challenge well.

There is no doubt that is a good driver, but the same could be said about a lot of other drivers such as Norris or Russell... Even Stroll is showing that he is learning and improving... But, the hype is a little too much given such an small sample to evaluate him... Is he one of the best driver’s out there? Definitely... But, at least in my opinion he is still in that bucket of drivers that are showing great speed and potential.


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Well I think that Leclercs results and racing prowess is visibly better than all of those you just mentioned, but like I say, it's an opinion, just like yours

[diffuser]

Lando’s doing great & learning fast, but I wouldn’t put him in the same league as Lewis, Max & possibly even Leclerc

It will be really interesting to see him go up against Daniel next year. The good thing is, like Carlos, RIC is a team player. I don't think Leclerc is, so I expect Carlos to run into problems next year in this respects like he did in Torro Rosso With Max

You make it sound like Carlos get's the info for how to setup his car from Norris?

Anyways, I think LeClerc is a team player and Vettel's the one not to extend his hand.... Not sure how many times LeClerc gave up the lead Ferrari in the race to Vettel last year all in the name of "the team".

Leclerc did so at the very early stages of the season when he was supposed to be a clear #2 to Vettel... Afterwards, it was a different story


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Think it was Russia last year where LeClerc allowed Vettel to stay in his slipstream and to pass him with the understanding that he'd return the place ? They wanted a Ferrari 1 -2 instead of 1 , 3. Vettel gave him and ferrari the the middle finger when it came time to return the spot. Think that was the trigger for LeClerc. Think that, Texas colission, the spin at abu dhabi was the End for Vettel.

[Big Tea]

You make it sound like Carlos get's the info for how to setup his car from Norris?

Anyways, I think LeClerc is a team player and Vettel's the one not to extend his hand.... Not sure how many times LeClerc gave up the lead Ferrari in the race to Vettel last year all in the name of "the team".

Leclerc did so at the very early stages of the season when he was supposed to be a clear #2 to Vettel... Afterwards, it was a different story


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Think it was Russia last year where LeClerc allowed Vettel to stay in his slipstream and to pass him with the understanding that he'd return the place ? They wanted a Ferrari 1 -2 instead of 1 , 3. Vettel gave him and ferrari the the middle finger when it came time to return the spot. Think that was the trigger for LeClerc. Think that, Texas colission, the spin at abu dhabi was the End for Vettel.

I think LeClerc is already a faster driver than Vettel, and I like Vettel a lot. Once he gains experience as a team leader, he will be a hard man to beat.
Danny Ric, I see him as a good season long racer, but a team player? I don't know, because so much is beneath the surface there and he keeps things to himself.
It could be for team unity, or it could be him keeping an ace up his sleeve. Don't know.
If he is 'team leader' I think he will be good for Lando, but if (when?) Lando starts challenging him I don't think there will be unity.

Sainz v Leclerc will give us a good measure for Lando V Leclerc in coming seasons

[djos]

Yeah I wouldn't be describing either Lando or Daniel as great drivers.

I'd put Slick Rick as an average leading driver, if that makes sense. He's a very capable driver in a top team, but not a Max or a Lewis and in my more subjective opinion, not a Leclerc either, who I think will be amazing sooner rather than later. He's doing to that Ferrari what Alonso could do, drag it to another level. He makes Vettel look worse than he is.

Diffuser, where do you rate Lando and Ric compared to drivers around them?

I think that the fact that Red Bull cannot find anyone to get within half a second of Verstappen says how good Ricciardo actually was. I understand that part of it can be experience, race engineers and other factors but it's been a 20+ races and in almost all Verstappen absolutely destroyed Gasly and Albon with half a second or more in race pace and qualy pace. I am aware that neither Gasly nor Albon set the world on fire, but they weren't seen as slow before they got into that seat.

It will be very interesting to see what Sainz can do against Leclerc. I wouldn't be surprised if it confirmed the idea that Leclerc is a top tier driver.

Exactly, Riccardo was able to out qualify Max on a regular basis and win races against him. No Red Bull driver has come close to him since.

And let’s not forget, Daniel won most of his races despite not starting on the front row due to being an excellent racer.

Also let’s not forget, he was the first team mate to demolish Vettel too.

[mwillems]

Yeah I wouldn't be describing either Lando or Daniel as great drivers.

I'd put Slick Rick as an average leading driver, if that makes sense. He's a very capable driver in a top team, but not a Max or a Lewis and in my more subjective opinion, not a Leclerc either, who I think will be amazing sooner rather than later. He's doing to that Ferrari what Alonso could do, drag it to another level. He makes Vettel look worse than he is.

Diffuser, where do you rate Lando and Ric compared to drivers around them?

I think that the fact that Red Bull cannot find anyone to get within half a second of Verstappen says how good Ricciardo actually was. I understand that part of it can be experience, race engineers and other factors but it's been a 20+ races and in almost all Verstappen absolutely destroyed Gasly and Albon with half a second or more in race pace and qualy pace. I am aware that neither Gasly nor Albon set the world on fire, but they weren't seen as slow before they got into that seat.

It will be very interesting to see what Sainz can do against Leclerc. I wouldn't be surprised if it confirmed the idea that Leclerc is a top tier driver.

Exactly, Riccardo was able to out qualify Max on a regular basis and win races against him. No Red Bull driver has come close to him since.

And let’s not forget, Daniel won most of his races despite not starting on the front row due to being an excellent racer.

Also let’s not forget, he was the first team mate to demolish Vettel too.

I completely respect and understand your opinion. But after Ric left RB there was a lot of talk in here about last year being make or break for Verstappen. He rose to the challenge and raised his game in every area to become not only super fast, but consistent and intelligent. I think that Ric would be in the dust now if they were in the same car.

[djos]

Don't get me wrong, I think Max is a superstar but, Daniel can be just as fast or faster and the history of them together backs that up.

[mwillems]

Don't get me wrong, I think Max is a superstar but, Daniel can be just as fast or faster and the history of them together backs that up.

Yeah I get what you're saying, I think the history backs that up, but the history is nearly 2 years old and I think it has changed since then in Max's favour. I don't like Max particularly in terms of how he comes across, but I do think he has developed a lot since Ricciardo left.