[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[diffuser]

To what extent is the car balance issue "sorted" compared to previous rounds? The setup for Silverstone requires stiffer wheel rates which will naturally limit chassis motion. Perhaps that's why they're closer here than in previous rounds? Stiffer setup partly masking the instability issues that come from wildly differing ride height due to high rake philosophy?

It isn't clear but I think you're suggesting that there is a non linear change in downforce as the car squats into the rake?

[Wynters]

We saw towards the end the Honda powered cars were able to push a little bit harder perhaps they had better fuel efficiency than competitors or Mercedes were turned down because of reliability issues with Hulk or Williams in the past.

From laps 39 to 49 (before pitstops/punctures started incentivising specific drivers), the gain in lap time over a 4 lap average was:-
Gasly -0.07
Verstappen +0.014
Albon -0.61

Looking at free-air representative runners of other engine manufacturers
Leclerc -0.17
Sainz -0.23
Hamilton +0.32

As Albon took 3 seconds out of Verstappen over this period, I suspect his gains might have more to do with tyres.

[HPD]

CH: "That's something we're trying to understand. Mercedes' lap speed is insane. The time savings they get between the third free practice, the first parts of qualifying and Q3 are dramatic!"

"We are investigating this and trying to find out where this performance comes from."

"Of course Mercedes will control certain parts of the race, but we have a good indication of what they are doing. They have a very good car, but I think we are within three to four tenths of them. Our challenge now is to close that gap. further, especially on fast tracks like Silverstone. "
https://racingnews365.nl/red-bull-onder ... lificaties

[Revs84]

Found this on Motorsport Japan. Tanabe seems to imply that Honda might be able to gain more performance as the season goes along, possibly even from the next GP?

"Finally, the two Mercedes cars were hit by a puncture. They also knew the tires were approaching their limits, and Max was able to run under pressure. However, there is still a difference in absolute value. In the future, we will continue to optimize the finish of the machine and the management of the power unit and will return to here (Silverstone) next week again."

"It's not easy to jump up in a week, but I'll do my best to prepare for the gap with Mercedes."

　In addition, Verstappen made a pit stop aiming for the fastest lap after Bartelli Bottus (Mercedes) was hit by a flat tire. However, after that, Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes), who was running the lead, also had a punk... If Verstappen continued to run without pitting, the chances of winning were high. If that happened, could you be happy with it? When asked, Tanabe TD said as follows.

"With the difference in qualifying and the obvious loss in race pace, it is important to keep the results. In terms of motivation throughout the year, I will not lose each one, I will catch it. If so, then you definitely have to pick it up, and in that sense, I'm happy."

"But I'm not really happy when I say that I was pleased in terms of true ability. It's a completely unpleasant situation because I have to wait until I fall."

As always the translation is quite broken, so was hoping someone might have better Japanese reading skills than I do

https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-20 ... n=widget-6

[langedweil]

Found this on Motorsport Japan. Tanabe seems to imply that Honda might be able to gain more performance as the season goes along, possibly even from the next GP?

Verstappen made a pit stop aiming for the fastest lap after Bartelli Bottus (Mercedes) was hit by a flat tire.

Bartelli Bottus
Somehow it sounds so much better ..

[godlameroso]

To what extent is the car balance issue "sorted" compared to previous rounds? The setup for Silverstone requires stiffer wheel rates which will naturally limit chassis motion. Perhaps that's why they're closer here than in previous rounds? Stiffer setup partly masking the instability issues that come from wildly differing ride height due to high rake philosophy?

It isn't clear but I think you're suggesting that there is a non linear change in downforce as the car squats into the rake?

It would never be linear, as ground effect multiplies the downforce effect to a critical point, then it stalls.

[godlameroso]

Found this on Motorsport Japan. Tanabe seems to imply that Honda might be able to gain more performance as the season goes along, possibly even from the next GP?

"Finally, the two Mercedes cars were hit by a puncture. They also knew the tires were approaching their limits, and Max was able to run under pressure. However, there is still a difference in absolute value. In the future, we will continue to optimize the finish of the machine and the management of the power unit and will return to here (Silverstone) next week again."

"It's not easy to jump up in a week, but I'll do my best to prepare for the gap with Mercedes."

　In addition, Verstappen made a pit stop aiming for the fastest lap after Bartelli Bottus (Mercedes) was hit by a flat tire. However, after that, Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes), who was running the lead, also had a punk... If Verstappen continued to run without pitting, the chances of winning were high. If that happened, could you be happy with it? When asked, Tanabe TD said as follows.

"With the difference in qualifying and the obvious loss in race pace, it is important to keep the results. In terms of motivation throughout the year, I will not lose each one, I will catch it. If so, then you definitely have to pick it up, and in that sense, I'm happy."

"But I'm not really happy when I say that I was pleased in terms of true ability. It's a completely unpleasant situation because I have to wait until I fall."

As always the translation is quite broken, so was hoping someone might have better Japanese reading skills than I do

https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-20 ... n=widget-6

The engine can be ran better with different management techniques, maybe higher modes for longer, better drivability, but not much can be done about ultimate performance until the season is over. This leaves him frustrated because Mercedes has essentially locked their advantage for the season. No new fuels, no new lubricant specs, no performance hardware upgrades, also no track validation of development direction until next year. Which conveniently for Mercedes stops competitors from catching up as quickly.

One thing is curious, if the rules are benefitting Mercedes, would the MGU-K and ERS allowances be something they're in favor for, for a specific reason? We did see Hamilton take a new MGU-K and it's only race 4.

[godlameroso]

To what extent is the car balance issue "sorted" compared to previous rounds? The setup for Silverstone requires stiffer wheel rates which will naturally limit chassis motion. Perhaps that's why they're closer here than in previous rounds? Stiffer setup partly masking the instability issues that come from wildly differing ride height due to high rake philosophy?

It isn't clear but I think you're suggesting that there is a non linear change in downforce as the car squats into the rake?

Think about this, say if you squat just right, you're really fast in a range of corners but then really slow in others because the rake angle isn't giving you as much DF(it's not in it's sweet spot). You have to live with this, so you get the car to squat just right for the range of corners that mathematically give you the best lap time over a season. But! your squatting out of the ideal range in the parts you deem less essential making the car difficult to drive there. How do you widen the range at where you're squatting just right? You make the car stiffer, so you force it into the sweet spot over a wider range, or you do the more complex thing and try to get the car to squat perfectly for every situation.

The latter is almost impossible with fixed suspension, the former is easier but more of a blunt approach and makes the car less nice to drive. So you arrive at a compromise as always.

[Marti_EF3]

It's not that far away this time...

Race Pace



Sector Pace



1st Stint



2nd Stint



3rd Stint

[godlameroso]

Also as far as controlling squat you don't have many options, you can use the dampers, but stiffening fast damper rebound rates can introduce handling issues like understeer. As it works much like anti-roll bars delaying weight transfer.

Hamilton mentioned the Mercedes tripods a lot in slow off camber corners. That implies there's little roll stiffness at the front.

[Wynters]

Verstappen's pre- race comment is awesome (1:27).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULAhZ6EcOw4

[ispano6]

Also as far as controlling squat you don't have many options, you can use the dampers, but stiffening fast damper rebound rates can introduce handling issues like understeer. As it works much like anti-roll bars delaying weight transfer.

Hamilton mentioned the Mercedes tripods a lot in slow off camber corners. That implies there's little roll stiffness at the front.

I think it's beyond that. Horner mentioned that they now think they know what Mercedes is doing. I'm wondering if he observed what I did regarding Hamilton's finish on 3 three wheels and what would be required to finish all of sector 3 at Silverstone with a tripod without scraping or damaging the front wing left underside one bit. I'm sure there are measures a driver can make to alter the balance of the car to compensate for a flat tire, like flat tire mode. But the fact it was so balanced on 3 tires was a bit odd if not intriguing. It's as if there was no load on that corner of the car, as if aerodynamically the rear was lifting the front up enough to keep the front wing from scraping. The tire carcass didn't disentangle from the wheel, so it too wasn't subject to enough frictional load to cause damage to it or the front wing. This last lap of Silverstone has revealed quite a lot about Mercedes, quite surprisingly.

[diffuser]

0.7 is an exaggeration in Hungary yes but here Max was only 8 seconds behind and just managing his pace while Lewis and Bottas were pushing each other according to them.

We saw towards the end the Honda powered cars were able to push a little bit harder perhaps they had better fuel efficiency than competitors or Mercedes were turned down because of reliability issues with Hulk or Williams in the past.

But they were behind the Renault PU in top speed. On a power circuit no less.

Hehehe. I'm enjoying this Bill !

BTW you usually see the fuel efficiency at the beginning of the race (Cars are more ladened with fuel) or in the middle of the race when they save fuel by going to a certain pace. By the last 20 laps of the race, USUALLY, they have enough to get home. Especially in a race that had so many laps behind a pace car.

[diffuser]

Also as far as controlling squat you don't have many options, you can use the dampers, but stiffening fast damper rebound rates can introduce handling issues like understeer. As it works much like anti-roll bars delaying weight transfer.

Hamilton mentioned the Mercedes tripods a lot in slow off camber corners. That implies there's little roll stiffness at the front.

Not sure how they do it but I know they adjust the squat so that it squats at different speeds for different tracks.

[diffuser]

Found this on Motorsport Japan. Tanabe seems to imply that Honda might be able to gain more performance as the season goes along, possibly even from the next GP?

"Finally, the two Mercedes cars were hit by a puncture. They also knew the tires were approaching their limits, and Max was able to run under pressure. However, there is still a difference in absolute value. In the future, we will continue to optimize the finish of the machine and the management of the power unit and will return to here (Silverstone) next week again."

"It's not easy to jump up in a week, but I'll do my best to prepare for the gap with Mercedes."

　In addition, Verstappen made a pit stop aiming for the fastest lap after Bartelli Bottus (Mercedes) was hit by a flat tire. However, after that, Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes), who was running the lead, also had a punk... If Verstappen continued to run without pitting, the chances of winning were high. If that happened, could you be happy with it? When asked, Tanabe TD said as follows.

"With the difference in qualifying and the obvious loss in race pace, it is important to keep the results. In terms of motivation throughout the year, I will not lose each one, I will catch it. If so, then you definitely have to pick it up, and in that sense, I'm happy."

"But I'm not really happy when I say that I was pleased in terms of true ability. It's a completely unpleasant situation because I have to wait until I fall."

As always the translation is quite broken, so was hoping someone might have better Japanese reading skills than I do

https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-20 ... n=widget-6

The engine can be ran better with different management techniques, maybe higher modes for longer, better drivability, but not much can be done about ultimate performance until the season is over. This leaves him frustrated because Mercedes has essentially locked their advantage for the season. No new fuels, no new lubricant specs, no performance hardware upgrades, also no track validation of development direction until next year. Which conveniently for Mercedes stops competitors from catching up as quickly.

One thing is curious, if the rules are benefitting Mercedes, would the MGU-K and ERS allowances be something they're in favor for, for a specific reason? We did see Hamilton take a new MGU-K and it's only race 4.

They increased the mgu-k allocation to 3 this year. Don't think it's gonna be a problem.

Probably just wanted to go with a new mgu-k for a track that is rough on the PU. Especially with back to back races there.