[ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

[Emag]

And next year, Racing point must now built the car they should have been building this year? Or will they again “loophole” their way out of it, get 400.000 euro fine and a few worthless points punishment?

This ruling reads a bit as you can not mess with us but go ahead. If you like.

No need, the car is legal, Racing Point do not need to redesign anything. In fact, Racing Point is clear to continue copying the aero from Mercedes as the process has been ruled legal.

Actually, the FIA is planning to prevent such copying from 2021 and onwards.

Source: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/copy ... =widget-22

[Sieper]

Indeed, that is where I got that from. But I am afraid they will again wiggle out of it. Because what they did year is also not what is supposed to be done.

[Jackles-UK]

The car itself is fully legal, not a single part in isolation contravenes any technical regulation (as far as we know) so a DSQ would have never been a realistic proposition.

Personally I think the punishment dished out is reasonable. If the team accrue 150 points this season, which seems a realistic total, then the points deduction is around 10% of the total - do we really think that the RBD’s are responsible for 10% of the performance of the car? Absolutely no chance. Having said that, if Renault have some more ammunition to throw into the discussion then it could end up getting much more serious.

[dans79]

So, brakes are illegal. They are taking away only 15 points while with illegal car, they have managed to score 42. It would all be fine if they would let them their points and demand to change the design of their brakes and simply force them to skip British GP this weekend.

No. The brakes are legal. The design process they used to design them is illegal. If you read the document it explains it all very well.

I get the feeling a lot of people haven't actually read it. I think they are just reading the headlines and then complaining the RP didn't get excluded from the championship or something like that, and that Merc wasn't some how implicated and also penalized.

[SmallSoldier]

Have any of you read the actual document? There are plenty of reasons given for the decision and it makes sense. Looks like they have to redesign the rear brake ducts and that's it.

In terms of the rest of the car, they haven't broken any rules at all.

Other parts of the car haven’t been protested yet... The document addresses the parts in dispute, the brakes, that’s it... Renault may protest something different this weekend.


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[subcritical71]

I'm conflicted with the FIA report. On one hand RP are punished because of intent (they knew what they were doing in 2019 would be illegal in 2020) so what they did in 2019 was not illegal. But then in their summary also state that the team cannot unlearn what they have already learned. Either way, they learned the information last year. Either way, how do they unlearn that. But to me the punishment is borderline fair and the issue should be closed. The reason I say borderline is I'm not a fan of punishments based on Outcome, Intent, DNA, Gentleman's Agreements, Super Secret Handshakes (I'm looking at you Ferrari), and the like. If its a rule write it into the regulations. If its a poorly written rule, pick yourself up and revise.

[SmallSoldier]

The car itself is fully legal, not a single part in isolation contravenes any technical regulation (as far as we know) so a DSQ would have never been a realistic proposition.

Personally I think the punishment dished out is reasonable. If the team accrue 150 points this season, which seems a realistic total, then the points deduction is around 10% of the total - do we really think that the RBD’s are responsible for 10% of the performance of the car? Absolutely no chance. Having said that, if Renault have some more ammunition to throw into the discussion then it could end up getting much more serious.

I’m sorry, it’s not about the “percentage of performance”... The problems with rules, is that you either brake them or not... If the brakes are clearly illegal because they weren’t designed by the team as the rules “specifically” state, then the car is illegal...

So now the teams can argue how much performance they get from doing something illegal? You seem to forget when cars have been DSQ for been a few millimeters too wide? Where those millimeters responsible for 100% of their performance?


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[Raleigh]

And next year, Racing point must now built the car they should have been building this year? Or will they again “loophole” their way out of it, get 400.000 euro fine and a few worthless points punishment?

This ruling reads a bit as you can not mess with us but go ahead. If you like.

No need, the car is legal, Racing Point do not need to redesign anything. In fact, Racing Point is clear to continue copying the aero from Mercedes as the process has been ruled legal.

Actually, the FIA is planning to prevent such copying from 2021 and onwards.

Source: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/copy ... =widget-22

Ah, but as worded the changes have no affect on Racing Point because they already have the RP20 and individual components can still be copied, allowing RP to continue "borrowing" aero updates into 2021.

What the new rules really do is stop anyone else from following Racing Point's lead and trying to wholesale clone for example the RB16 or SF1000.

[rohan]

As I said in the Technical forum as well, Racing Point has been found to be cheats. They should have been thrown out of the whole season - there is clear precedent for this (cf Tyrrell in 1984).

I hope Renault wins their appeal against the unduly lenient punishment given to RP.

[dans79]

I love how Renault and Mclaren are still complaining even after the verdict. I assume it's because they think RP will still beat them this season.

[Big Tea]

The ruling explicitly states that there's nothing wrong with copying the entire car

"with the RP20 Racing Point has done its best to copy the Mercedes W10 as closely as it can across the board. [...] Racing Point has achieved this by simply photographing components of the Mercedes W10 and reverse engineering them, this is consistent with standard practice (albeit taken to extreme) and no other team could reasonably object."

Nothing wrong with copying using photographs and other freely obtainable sources. Against sporting regs this season to design from CAD legally obtained last season. FIA should have thought of this possibility when changing brake ducts from non-listed to listed parts.

The rules were quite clear, the BD were a protected part this year and must be designed themselves. Anybody doing 'anything else' was treading a fine line..

And the TP quite clearly said we've copied them.. own goal.

A cleverer TP would have told his design team- look we have this part, but we still need to show we worked on our own part, so get me a 6 week design process with 3 different models based on this to 'at least' show we did some due process on the part itself. Its clear they did as quoted "minimal work" so the majority of the design is MERC, so the team failed to manage the situation correctly. They could have tried harder to justify their process..

But that would be deliberate cheating and should be stamped on. RP had no intention of cheating and followed the rules as they saw them, which is why some see the penalty as lenient. There was no deliberate cheating.

Had they been found with something like this they may well have been excluded (and rightly)

[SmallSoldier]

I love how Renault and Mclaren are still complaining even after the verdict. I assume it's because they think RP will still beat them this season.

Is Mclaren complaining?


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[dans79]

I love how Renault and Mclaren are still complaining even after the verdict. I assume it's because they think RP will still beat them this season.

Is Mclaren complaining?

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/941312/1/ ... ims-are-bs

Brown

Around this whole copying, obviously they claimed that they had copied the car via photography. It’s clear from reading the document that that is BS.

[Raleigh]

Photography + legal transfer of CAD files for listed components, that was always the understanding. Take all the known reference points from listed components and F1 technical regulations, then fill in the blanks from photography.

Racing Point freely informed the FIA about having used Mercedes CAD files when designing the brake drums, as to their understanding the transfer in 2019 was completely legal. IMO fault lies with the FIA for not being sufficiently clear over how the change from listed to non-listed components was to be handled, especially when it turns out Racing Point was correct about being allowed to use the front brake drums but not allowed to use the rear drums over a technicality.

[PowerandtheGlory]

And next year, Racing point must now built the car they should have been building this year? Or will they again “loophole” their way out of it, get 400.000 euro fine and a few worthless points punishment?

This ruling reads a bit as you can not mess with us but go ahead. If you like.

No need, the car is legal, Racing Point do not need to redesign anything. In fact, Racing Point is clear to continue copying the aero from Mercedes as the process has been ruled legal.

Actually the FiA are about to amend the rules to forbid copycat teams.. so going forward it is illegal.. too late for 2020, but by 2021 it will he illegal..