Racing Point RP20

[nico5]

Wrong - Mercedes gave RP the designs for the brake ducts after 1st January, thereby violating the sporting regulations. It was entirely illegal and RP should be thrown out of the season, as per precedent.

Just to clear this up as I've seen multiple people hark on about it. This is not what happened.

RP already had the CAD designs for these exact parts as they were purchased in 2019. Mercedes simply supplied them a built version of IP they already owned because RP weren't sure if they could finish building a set themselves in time for testing.

I don't know about you, but in my book, owning the CAD designs from 2019 and receiving a back up part of the exact design at a later date is absolutely fine. As such, they weren't even used anyway.

Hopefully that put's this dead horse to rest.

As is covered by -

Parts Transfer of Jan. 6, 2020
1. It is noted that both Mercedes and Racing Point acknowledge that there was a transfer from the
former to the latter of a complete set of Mercedes 2019 BDs that arrived at Racing Point on or
about Jan. 6, 2020. It is the opinion of the FIA that this transfer did not constitute a significant
breach of the SRs. It did not violate paragraph 1 of Appendix 6 because the parts were not used.
It did not significantly violate paragraph 4 of Appendix 6 because there was nothing in the transfer
that had not been legitimately provided to Racing Point in 2019 under the then in force
regulations. Additionally, there is the additional mitigating factor that the BDs had just officially
changed status six days earlier.

We can go around it all day, still the points are:
a) FIA ruled wrongful the design process which led RP to use Merc's 2019 rear brake ducts on their 2020 car.
b) They replied that they got the CAD models in 2019 when the part was not listed so everything is fine (apparently not since that got sanctioned...), but
c) the very fact that they received the spare parts from Merc in 2020 is a clear testament to their intention of using a listed part on their 2020 car.
And that's about it. Of course the problem is not the spare part itself...

EDIT: Szafnauer also stated after the verdict that they "designed and manufactured [the part] completely ourselves" which is a plain lie if they were indeed ready to use Merc's spare parts.

[billamend]

We can go around it all day, still the points are:
a) FIA ruled wrongful the design process which led RP to use Merc's 2019 rear brake ducts on their 2020 car.
b) They replied that they got the CAD models in 2019 when the part was not listed so everything is fine (apparently not since that got sanctioned...), but
c) the very fact that they received the spare parts from Merc in 2020 is a clear testament to their intention of using a listed part on their 2020 car.
And that's about it. Of course the problem is not the spare part itself...

EDIT: Szafnauer also stated after the verdict that they "designed and manufactured [the part] completely ourselves" which is a plain lie if they were indeed ready to use Merc's spare parts.

I don't understand how can anyone defend RP based on the facts that are known.

[Big Tea]

We can go around it all day, still the points are:
a) FIA ruled wrongful the design process which led RP to use Merc's 2019 rear brake ducts on their 2020 car.
b) They replied that they got the CAD models in 2019 when the part was not listed so everything is fine (apparently not since that got sanctioned...), but
c) the very fact that they received the spare parts from Merc in 2020 is a clear testament to their intention of using a listed part on their 2020 car.
And that's about it. Of course the problem is not the spare part itself...

EDIT: Szafnauer also stated after the verdict that they "designed and manufactured [the part] completely ourselves" which is a plain lie if they were indeed ready to use Merc's spare parts.

I don't understand how can anyone defend RP based on the facts that are known.

The facts they are known are usually not those stated.

[nico5]

We can go around it all day, still the points are:
a) FIA ruled wrongful the design process which led RP to use Merc's 2019 rear brake ducts on their 2020 car.
b) They replied that they got the CAD models in 2019 when the part was not listed so everything is fine (apparently not since that got sanctioned...), but
c) the very fact that they received the spare parts from Merc in 2020 is a clear testament to their intention of using a listed part on their 2020 car.
And that's about it. Of course the problem is not the spare part itself...

EDIT: Szafnauer also stated after the verdict that they "designed and manufactured [the part] completely ourselves" which is a plain lie if they were indeed ready to use Merc's spare parts.

I don't understand how can anyone defend RP based on the facts that are known.

The facts they are known are usually not those stated.

Well, if they get summoned by the FIA and delibreately lie to them, as Lewis did in Australia 2009, there are consequences usually.

[SiLo]

I don't understand how can anyone defend RP based on the facts that are known.

The facts they are known are usually not those stated.

Well, if they get summoned by the FIA and delibreately lie to them, as Lewis did in Australia 2009, there are consequences usually.

You know you can run an illegal car in pre-season testing right? RP still provided proof that they changed the design somewhat, the FIA just weren't happy that they changed them enough to consider it their own design.

[wesley123]

c) the very fact that they received the spare parts from Merc in 2020 is a clear testament to their intention of using a listed part on their 2020 car.

Receiving parts =/= them using said parts. Frankly enough, that argument is actually an argument in RPs defense, since they received the drawings etc. before they were considered a listed part.

I think everyone here has knives in their kitchen drawer, this doesn't mean they intend to stab people with it.

[SiLo]

Also the Mercedes part would be an easy fit as they buy the suspension from them as well.

So not only would their own design fit, the Merc one would too, but likely not perform as well.

[PowerandtheGlory]

c) the very fact that they received the spare parts from Merc in 2020 is a clear testament to their intention of using a listed part on their 2020 car.

Receiving parts =/= them using said parts. Frankly enough, that argument is actually an argument in RPs defense, since they received the drawings etc. before they were considered a listed part.

I think everyone here has knives in their kitchen drawer, this doesn't mean they intend to stab people with it.

I still think people might be missing the point here, whether they 'used' them or not is irrelevant.. its like handling stolen goods...!! you might not have know what it was, but that isn't the point. Racing point are not a Merc B team, they have a contract for parts, they received Merc spec brake discs this year, when the brake discs are a listed part...
Oh..oh.. but we didn't use them.... but no doubt you have a really, really, really good look at them...!!!!!

[dans79]

c) the very fact that they received the spare parts from Merc in 2020 is a clear testament to their intention of using a listed part on their 2020 car.

Receiving parts =/= them using said parts. Frankly enough, that argument is actually an argument in RPs defense, since they received the drawings etc. before they were considered a listed part.

I think everyone here has knives in their kitchen drawer, this doesn't mean they intend to stab people with it.

I still think people might be missing the point here, whether they 'used' them or not is irrelevant.. its like handling stolen goods...!! you might not have know what it was, but that isn't the point. Racing point are not a Merc B team, they have a contract for parts, they received Merc spec brake discs this year, when the brake discs are a listed part...
Oh..oh.. but we didn't use them.... but no doubt you have a really, really, really good look at them...!!!!!

No, I think you are missing the point.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/racin ... y/4852788/

The FIA stewards revealed in their findings that Racing Point took delivery of a set of brake ducts from Mercedes on 6 January 2020, which had ceased to be non-listed parts six days earlier.

The stewards did not deem this to be a “significant breach” of the sporting regulations as “nothing in the transfer that had not been legitimately provided to Racing Point in 2019 under the then in force regulations”.

To put it simply this all comes down to the regulations being poorly written. Imo, the ruling had two goals. One was to appease the other teams, so they would stop shining a light on the poorly written rules. The second was to penalize RP lightly enough that they wouldn't appeal, and take it to court.

As we know the FIA/stewards failed on both counts. Everyone is appealing and this is going to go to court. I'm glad it is, as I'm pretty confident when you get in front of people with real legal knowledge RP will win, and the FIA/stewards will be made to look very dumb.

[PhillipM]

Well of course they're appealing, the punishment was far too light - bearing in mind they're still allowed to run the parts deemed to be illegal - remember back when Mclaren got a 100M fine and a DQ from the constructors just for *having* info on another car even though they could prove none of it was ever used on theirs even for design?!

[dans79]

Well of course they're appealing, the punishment was far too light - bearing in mind they're still allowed to run the parts deemed to be illegal - remember back when Mclaren got a 100M fine and a DQ from the constructors just for *having* info on another car even though they could prove none of it was ever used on theirs even for design?!

There a big difference between legally and illegally obtaining information.

[nico5]

The facts they are known are usually not those stated.

Well, if they get summoned by the FIA and delibreately lie to them, as Lewis did in Australia 2009, there are consequences usually.

You know you can run an illegal car in pre-season testing right? RP still provided proof that they changed the design somewhat, the FIA just weren't happy that they changed them enough to consider it their own design.

Yeah, but that happened like in July. What if those parts were also there, say, in Australia? Once again, I'm not discussing the legality of the thing itself. But the whole process they went through is clearly in bad faith. I remember Tombazis saying they hadn't even checked RP's brake ducts before Renault's protest, which makes the FIA look just short of a bunch of incompetents.

[Big Tea]

Well, if they get summoned by the FIA and delibreately lie to them, as Lewis did in Australia 2009, there are consequences usually.

You know you can run an illegal car in pre-season testing right? RP still provided proof that they changed the design somewhat, the FIA just weren't happy that they changed them enough to consider it their own design.

Yeah, but that happened like in July. What if those parts were also there, say, in Australia? Once again, I'm not discussing the legality of the thing itself. But the whole process they went through is clearly in bad faith. I remember Tombazis saying they hadn't even checked RP's brake ducts before Renault's protest, which makes the FIA look just short of a bunch of incompetents.

Or they had not fully understood the meaning of the paragraph THEY wrote. Which , I suppose, amounts to the same result

[Mchamilton]

c) the very fact that they received the spare parts from Merc in 2020 is a clear testament to their intention of using a listed part on their 2020 car.

Receiving parts =/= them using said parts. Frankly enough, that argument is actually an argument in RPs defense, since they received the drawings etc. before they were considered a listed part.

I think everyone here has knives in their kitchen drawer, this doesn't mean they intend to stab people with it.

I still think people might be missing the point here, whether they 'used' them or not is irrelevant.. its like handling stolen goods...!! you might not have know what it was, but that isn't the point. Racing point are not a Merc B team, they have a contract for parts, they received Merc spec brake discs this year, when the brake discs are a listed part...
Oh..oh.. but we didn't use them.... but no doubt you have a really, really, really good look at them...!!!!!

you are so far off from reality its almost laughable

[PowerandtheGlory]

Receiving parts =/= them using said parts. Frankly enough, that argument is actually an argument in RPs defense, since they received the drawings etc. before they were considered a listed part.

I think everyone here has knives in their kitchen drawer, this doesn't mean they intend to stab people with it.

I still think people might be missing the point here, whether they 'used' them or not is irrelevant.. its like handling stolen goods...!! you might not have know what it was, but that isn't the point. Racing point are not a Merc B team, they have a contract for parts, they received Merc spec brake discs this year, when the brake discs are a listed part...
Oh..oh.. but we didn't use them.... but no doubt you have a really, really, really good look at them...!!!!!

you are so far off from reality its almost laughable

Im only laughing because they were deemed to have broken sporting regulations by the FiA and were fined (albeit lightly) everything else i stand by, the Racing Point/Aston & merc links run deeper than just f1 (road cars parts, new AMG guy being the boss there) and the link in the sporting work feels incestuous... and i think the FiA agree. Racing point will take this on the chin, they will be quick this year and next year with this knock off Mercedes W10.. and then 2022 we'll see where the pecking order is, but thank god the Fia will ban copycat cars...