FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[etusch]

ok. I left it to fia

[dans79]

ok. I left it to fia

People complain the teams are only looking out for themselves, but honestly I think the teams do a better job of governing/managing the sport than the fia do.

[Big Tea]

ok. I left it to fia

Don't feel you are being picked on

[Mattchu]

So how many "modes" do we reckon the average Formula 1 car actually has? We`ve all heard strat 6, engine mode 2 or whatever but very few outside of the teams know what this means!

I love the qualy/party mode, it gives the whole notion of qualifying that air of mystery! sure, maybe not with the works Merc team but it sure makes the rest a little bit more tantilizing!

Most of the recent FIA stuff seems to have been sensible, this seems daft...

[MtthsMlw]

So how many "modes" do we reckon the average Formula 1 car actually has? We`ve all heard strat 6, engine mode 2 or whatever but very few outside of the teams know what this means!

I love the qualy/party mode, it gives the whole notion of qualifying that air of mystery! sure, maybe not with the works Merc team but it sure makes the rest a little bit more tantilizing!

Most of the recent FIA stuff seems to have been sensible, this seems daft...

An awful lot to be sure.
Ferrari for example got 12 general engine maps 1-12, 12 SOC modes and numerous settings regarding turbo, fuel mix and ignition as well as 4 different fuel saving settings. And of course mode push and race as 'main' modes.

[Big Tea]

So how many "modes" do we reckon the average Formula 1 car actually has? We`ve all heard strat 6, engine mode 2 or whatever but very few outside of the teams know what this means!

I love the qualy/party mode, it gives the whole notion of qualifying that air of mystery! sure, maybe not with the works Merc team but it sure makes the rest a little bit more tantilizing!

Most of the recent FIA stuff seems to have been sensible, this seems daft...

An awful lot to be sure.
Ferrari for example got 12 general engine maps 1-12, 12 SOC modes and numerous settings regarding turbo, fuel mix and ignition as well as 4 different fuel saving settings. And of course mode push and race as 'main' modes.

I think it would be quite possible to get the same effect just using (call it) engine mode 12 and recovery mode 5 If they were set to give the same parameters on the engine, MGU's and battery systems. Call it Mode 99 or what ever, and they no longer break any rule

[Mattchu]

An awful lot to be sure.
Ferrari for example got 12 general engine maps 1-12, 12 SOC modes and numerous settings regarding turbo, fuel mix and ignition as well as 4 different fuel saving settings. And of course mode push and race as 'main' modes.

To true bud! Maybe this is the sort of thing the FIA should be looking at...limiting the amount of modes a driver can put the engine in [maybe 5].
Would this change the outcome of qualy/races? Probably not much, but drivers wouldn`t be fiddling with their knobs on the straights as much

[Just_a_fan]

So how many "modes" do we reckon the average Formula 1 car actually has? We`ve all heard strat 6, engine mode 2 or whatever but very few outside of the teams know what this means!

There are strat modes and engine modes. Mercedes has Strat and HPP modes. Then there is the variation in harvesting (brake balance migration) severity too. Look at this wheel


16 strat modes, 16 HPP modes. Some will be engine map, some gearbox mapping, and some will presumably be predefined combinations of both along with harvesting strategy, ERS deployment etc.

It's more complicated than how much fuel is injected with associated ignition timings.

[gshevlin]

I have no idea how the FIA thinks it can ban "qualifying" modes, since the modes available to drivers cover all modes from "cruise and collect" through to "desperation banzai maximum of everything".
The trade-off for using more powerful modes is reduced engine and component life, and higher fuel consumption. The power unit suppliers can work out how many miles or km they can allow their drivers over a race weekend at any combination of modes, and then they can determine what to allow in qualifying.
We have seen some power unit suppliers in the recent past not have any "qualifying mode", either because the power unit is not mature enough or sophisticated enough to support it, or because the use of that higher mode would reduce power unit component life to a level that would result in reliability issues or the use of too many PU component sets, thus leading to penalties.
The days of banzai 2-lap qualifying engines that were thrown in the scrap bin after Saturday are long gone.
The sooner that F1 truly is cost-limited, with more open regulations, the better.

[Zynerji]

So how many "modes" do we reckon the average Formula 1 car actually has? We`ve all heard strat 6, engine mode 2 or whatever but very few outside of the teams know what this means!

There are strat modes and engine modes. Mercedes has Strat and HPP modes. Then there is the variation in harvesting (brake balance migration) severity too. Look at this wheel
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2 ... /e1-1.jpeg

16 strat modes, 16 HPP modes. Some will be engine map, some gearbox mapping, and some will presumably be predefined combinations of both along with harvesting strategy, ERS deployment etc.

It's more complicated than how much fuel is injected with associated ignition timings.

Agreed. It's a power management formula as much as an aero formula nowadays...

This is why Symonds said a long time ago that the drivers will never end up with more power than the chassis can handle, and that is why the racing is sterile.

Im a big fan of brake balance, paddle shifters, diff setting, wet/dry engine map switch, and the drink button being the only "toys" that the drivers have to play with.

[Wouter]

Special qualifying modes could be banned after Spain.

Peak qualifying engine modes could be outlawed from this year’s Belgian Grand Prix onwards, The Race understands.
The Race understands that teams have been informed a rule change could be rapidly implemented to ban such modes as of the Spa round in just over two weeks’ time.
It is possible that this change, which could have a major impact on the competitive order this season, may be pushed to the start of 2021 pending further discussion.
The rulemakers may be willing to postpone the application of this new rule until 2021 subject to other concessions being made, although it is unclear what these could be.

Mercedes has made it clear it is not ready to sign a new commercial agreement with F1, although it is understood that some progress has been made on that front since last weekend when the two sides appeared to have reached an impasse.

The deadline for final agreement on the new Concorde Agreement has been pushed to the end of August – the weekend of the Belgian GP.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/special- ... ter-spain/

[63l8qrrfy6]

Do they need unanimous agreement from all teams to make it happen ?

[nzjrs]

I have no idea how the FIA thinks it can ban "qualifying" modes, since the modes available to drivers cover all modes from "cruise and collect" through to "desperation banzai maximum of everything".
The trade-off for using more powerful modes is reduced engine and component life, and higher fuel consumption. The power unit suppliers can work out how many miles or km they can allow their drivers over a race weekend at any combination of modes, and then they can determine what to allow in qualifying.
We have seen some power unit suppliers in the recent past not have any "qualifying mode", either because the power unit is not mature enough or sophisticated enough to support it, or because the use of that higher mode would reduce power unit component life to a level that would result in reliability issues or the use of too many PU component sets, thus leading to penalties.
The days of banzai 2-lap qualifying engines that were thrown in the scrap bin after Saturday are long gone.
The sooner that F1 truly is cost-limited, with more open regulations, the better.

according to https://the-race.com/formula-1/special- ... ter-spain/ they propose

One theory is this will be enforced by requiring teams to use their qualifying modes for a percentage of the race that would not be achievable with the current peak performance setting because of the impact it has on engine life and battery management.

I guess they mean more than lap-on-lap negative state of charge for battery management? That's an interesting part really. Would the others here think that depleting the battery to zero over a lap (and associated regen mapping) be a PU mode that is ever used other than in qualifying and perhaps the last lap of a race?

[63l8qrrfy6]

according to https://the-race.com/formula-1/special- ... ter-spain/ they propose

One theory is this will be enforced by requiring teams to use their qualifying modes for a percentage of the race that would not be achievable with the current peak performance setting because of the impact it has on engine life and battery management.

That will never work, Merc will just switch the qualy mode on when they are leading by 10s but only drive around with say max 90% throttle for a few laps.

[El Scorchio]

Special qualifying modes could be banned after Spain.

Peak qualifying engine modes could be outlawed from this year’s Belgian Grand Prix onwards, The Race understands.
The Race understands that teams have been informed a rule change could be rapidly implemented to ban such modes as of the Spa round in just over two weeks’ time.
It is possible that this change, which could have a major impact on the competitive order this season, may be pushed to the start of 2021 pending further discussion.
The rulemakers may be willing to postpone the application of this new rule until 2021 subject to other concessions being made, although it is unclear what these could be.

Mercedes has made it clear it is not ready to sign a new commercial agreement with F1, although it is understood that some progress has been made on that front since last weekend when the two sides appeared to have reached an impasse.

The deadline for final agreement on the new Concorde Agreement has been pushed to the end of August – the weekend of the Belgian GP.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/special- ... ter-spain/

So silly. It's like telling Usain Bolt he needs to run the 100 metres in flip flops just to give the others a chance.

Yet again it's punishing innovation and encouraging mediocrity. Why bother pushing to be the best when you can just whinge until someone slaps down a handicap on your competitor?

Things like this could really make engine manufacturers think genuinely 'Why am i bothering to spend this money in this sport if they aren't letting me show what my product is capable of?'