[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[tangodjango]

Come on, after seven years PU must have similar performance. You assume all other team are stupid. Everybody knows marcedes car dominance is based on PU. Very simple. This is an engine based formula. The reason no one team is using mercedes car concept is also consequence of this. With high rake cars you hope to compensate for lack of power. It has always been like that

So why aren't all the chassis the same? Why isn't Williams amongst the top teams at Monaco (and elsewhere)? After seven years, surely all the teams should've closed the gap to to Adrian Newey?

Or, perhaps, things are quite complex and, yes, some teams have slightly better design departments than other teams. You can call them 'stupid' if you like. I'd call them 'relatively under resourced'.

You're really wasting your breath on this thread providing facts and logic and rational speculation some of the arguments you are shooting down are way beyond tin foil hat conspiracy theorizing.

[ispano6]

Come on, after seven years PU must have similar performance. You assume all other team are stupid. Everybody knows marcedes car dominance is based on PU. Very simple. This is an engine based formula. The reason no one team is using mercedes car concept is also consequence of this. With high rake cars you hope to compensate for lack of power. It has always been like that

So why aren't all the chassis the same? Why isn't Williams amongst the top teams at Monaco (and elsewhere)? After seven years, surely all the teams should've closed the gap to to Adrian Newey?

Or, perhaps, things are quite complex and, yes, some teams have slightly better design departments than other teams. You can call them 'stupid' if you like. I'd call them 'relatively under resourced'.

Exactly. If the Merc dominance is based on their PU then why have the teams they supply not been far higher up the WCC in the past few years? Why last year did they finish 7th and 10th, behind teams using every other engine supplied in the sport? Why have Williams been at the back and miles behind for the past few years?

Probably because Suzie nor Valterri no longer were in Williams... The year Bottas and Massa drove Williams to p2 in the constructors championship was thanks to the engine and straight line speed. Mercedes had something like 7 years headstart on the hybrid tech I've read (that alone should be reason to clamp down on them). That Honda has surpassed the other two manufacturers and is mounting a challenge and threatens to almost always have all 4 cars in the top ten just goes to show their integrity and determination. It's a great time to be a RedBull Honda fan and looking forward to more wins.

[Sieper]

Not really, is is totally off topic talk that is trying to simplify to a ridiculous level plus it is fallacy, trying to make a point which is not there.

Mercedes has a top Level chassis maybe a bit aimed at one lap pace
RBR has a almost top chassis that is easier on tires
Williams has a bottom tier chassis.

[HPD]

[El Scorchio]

Not really, is is totally off topic talk that is trying to simplify to a ridiculous level plus it is fallacy, trying to make a point which is not there.

Mercedes has a top Level chassis maybe a bit aimed at one lap pace
RBR has a almost top chassis that is easier on tires
Williams has a bottom tier chassis.

Exactly as you say. The PU is part of it but it’s not the sole differentiator.

It’s a combination of all the elements so I find it a bit silly when people just make these simplistic claims like ‘oh it’s just the engine’. A bad car with a good engine is still a bad car which can’t win, and a great car with a decent engine is still a great car which can win- Red Bull circa 2010-2013.

[El Scorchio]

So why aren't all the chassis the same? Why isn't Williams amongst the top teams at Monaco (and elsewhere)? After seven years, surely all the teams should've closed the gap to to Adrian Newey?

Or, perhaps, things are quite complex and, yes, some teams have slightly better design departments than other teams. You can call them 'stupid' if you like. I'd call them 'relatively under resourced'.

Exactly. If the Merc dominance is based on their PU then why have the teams they supply not been far higher up the WCC in the past few years? Why last year did they finish 7th and 10th, behind teams using every other engine supplied in the sport? Why have Williams been at the back and miles behind for the past few years?

Probably because Suzie nor Valterri no longer were in Williams... The year Bottas and Massa drove Williams to p2 in the constructors championship was thanks to the engine and straight line speed. Mercedes had something like 7 years headstart on the hybrid tech I've read (that alone should be reason to clamp down on them). That Honda has surpassed the other two manufacturers and is mounting a challenge and threatens to almost always have all 4 cars in the top ten just goes to show their integrity and determination. It's a great time to be a RedBull Honda fan and looking forward to more wins.

So because Merc are doing a good job they should be clamped down on but we should instead praise Honda and RB for doing a similarly good job?

And to suggest Williams were good because of favours?

What rubbish.

[Justthatek]

.

[langedweil]

To ridicule things further; why not allow for these models to apply these settings remotely to the car .. let's say 50 times/second ? And whilst working that out, you might as well aid the steering/brake system remotely based on the ontrack competition, pu/brake temperatures, tire wear and fuel consumption. Make it just like 10 Big Blue's that run the race with two cars each?

Fair point

For me, F1 is a team sport. If I have the option of either banning the driver or banning the contributions of others, I'd ban the driver.

However, suppose we banned the use of computers to calculate strategy? Or other aspects of the real-time performance? Relied more on judgement of individuals rather than computer analysis? Leave them with the same tools they have now in the car, but remove that processing power 'perfection'?

With everything already controlled by Parc Ferme rules, why is it so weird to add the gazillion engine-mappings to it?

It's also a fair question. For me, the ability to differentiate when to apply performance and the chess match between the various pit walls is as much a part of the sport as the drivers banging wheels through a corner. I appreciate that's not a universal view though.

Our views just differ a bit .. imo the team effort lies in preparing the car, then on Sunday at 14.10 it's all up to the guys holding the steering wheel.

[Marti_EF3]

What was that useless strategy with Albon?? Guinea pig with the hards and abandon him on the middle of a train... Well, we will be lucky if Max hold 2nd WDC. Last race was the typical one-off to not see Merc winning all season in a row

[Revs84]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... =widget-22

I wonder if and by how much the change to the power unit might have affected Max's performance today.

I remember ispano saying that Honda stated the first ICE was 'spent', so just wondering if they actually had to run with less power today than they would have had with a one race old ICE.

[tangodjango]

Do you remember when I said Red Bull would be within .2 of Mercedes based on testing? Everyone thought I was nuts, that I was wrong, that I should be disrespected for my views, etc. But the data says I was right. Verstappen is within .2 in race pace.

What does the data say now? 66x0.2 ≠ 25 seconds eh? That too with pace to spare easily from the lead Mercedes?

[Revs84]

What was that useless strategy with Albon?? Guinea pig with the hards and abandon him on the middle of a train... Well, we will be lucky if Max hold 2nd WDC. Last race was the typical one-off to not see Merc winning all season in a row

That was strange to me as well... It felt like Albon's chances were ruined with that first pit on the hards...

[zibby43]

I guess it wasn’t the hot temperatures that affected Merc at Silverstone 2.

Think it was just the balloon tire pressures. Didn’t see that coming today.

[SmallSoldier]

Do you remember when I said Red Bull would be within .2 of Mercedes based on testing? Everyone thought I was nuts, that I was wrong, that I should be disrespected for my views, etc. But the data says I was right. Verstappen is within .2 in race pace.

What does the data say now? 66x0.2 ≠ 25 seconds eh? That too with pace to spare easily from the lead Mercedes?

Don’t waste your time, he will come back with not actual data to state that if X, Y and Z it “could be” 0.2 seconds.

The way Hamilton build a gap before the first pit stops was ridiculous.

Great result for Red Bull though, Bottas messed it up on the first lap and didn’t had enough to bring the fight to Max... Verstappen proving how great of a driver he is and pulling the Red Bull to amazing scoring positions.

Albon though, he got screwed with the strategy today... They pit him early to probably assess his tires and determine when to pit Max, but he knows that’s his job... I was surprised that he couldn’t get Vettel at the end though, who seemed to be a sitting duck.


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[Moore77]

Do you remember when I said Red Bull would be within .2 of Mercedes based on testing? Everyone thought I was nuts, that I was wrong, that I should be disrespected for my views, etc. But the data says I was right. Verstappen is within .2 in race pace.

What does the data say now? 66x0.2 ≠ 25 seconds eh? That too with pace to spare easily from the lead Mercedes?

Sorry to say, but our friend @godlameroso should retire now. It's time.