[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[holeindalip]

Do you remember when I said Red Bull would be within .2 of Mercedes based on testing? Everyone thought I was nuts, that I was wrong, that I should be disrespected for my views, etc. But the data says I was right. Verstappen is within .2 in race pace.

What does the data say now? 66x0.2 ≠ 25 seconds eh? That too with pace to spare easily from the lead Mercedes?

How the hell did you come up with those calculation numbers? Hamilton maintained a 1.4-1.5 sec gap until about lap 11 I believe.

Looks more like .45 sec a lap by my calcs..

[Sieper]

You can’t really calculate. It is who is best on tires that had the pace. Silverstone 2 Max had pace in hand. Today Lewis was 25 Sec’s up, but he had much more in hand. First stint he kept Max in his dirty air for like 11 laps or so? Before pulling away. And Max had to be in there as Bottas was threatening him.

In fact, I think RBR knew this race would not allow the to push Merc into a pitstop (even if they had the tires to do so, which they didn’t) as you cannot realistically overtake (a Merc) on track. Considering this they changed out back to the older PU on race morning. Must have been some debating.

Maybe as Merc qualified in lower Pu mode they had more left for race.

[TNTHead]

Do you remember when I said Red Bull would be within .2 of Mercedes based on testing? Everyone thought I was nuts, that I was wrong, that I should be disrespected for my views, etc. But the data says I was right. Verstappen is within .2 in race pace.

What does the data say now? 66x0.2 ≠ 25 seconds eh? That too with pace to spare easily from the lead Mercedes?

How the hell did you come up with those calculation numbers? Hamilton maintained a 1.4-1.5 sec gap until about lap 11 I believe.

Looks more like .45 sec a lap by my calcs..

Don't be too harsh, it was estimated based on the long run data of Friday, if i remember correctly, which is proven to be wrong today.

As a side note not specifically to one or the other: lets try to keep it friendly, this forum is a lot less fun when conversations turn sour.

Today showed again, the Merc car is the best, others are playing catch up. As a fan of close wheel to wheel battles for the win I still hope F1 finds a way that field is closer than this. P4 and onwards was lapped! This happens too frequently, we even seem to get used to it.

[ispano6]

Probably because Suzie nor Valterri no longer were in Williams... The year Bottas and Massa drove Williams to p2 in the constructors championship was thanks to the engine and straight line speed. Mercedes had something like 7 years headstart on the hybrid tech I've read (that alone should be reason to clamp down on them). That Honda has surpassed the other two manufacturers and is mounting a challenge and threatens to almost always have all 4 cars in the top ten just goes to show their integrity and determination. It's a great time to be a RedBull Honda fan and looking forward to more wins.

Are you seriously suggesting Mercedes started working on their engines years before the specifications were even decided?

Have any of you read this article?

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01 ... ince-2007/

Montezemolo: Mercedes worked on their F1 engine since 2007


Former Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has revealed that Mercedes F1 chairman Niki Lauda informed him that the German team began work on their all conquering power unit a decade ago, long before the new turbo era kicked off.

Go read the article and form your own twisted opinion.

HONDA has more upgrades but is handcuffed from introducing them. If Mercedes is so all conquering then they should let Honda development be introduced. But no Honda can't use their development because others had covid shutdowns. And people say, "well that's not fair etc" and continue to dog Honda.

And for the MB fans who keep coming to this teams board to talk crap, just because Mercedes is all conquering doesn't make you all knowing.

[Marti_EF3]

It's starting to be boring to see all that Merc talk here, to be honest. Honda is not doing bad, but they need updates. I think on race pace is a great PU. Also the car needs to improve, because it keeps to be a diva with the setup and balance. Hopefully they sort out mid season, and then maybe at 2021 will be a more close battle. This year they have to secure 2nd WCC and WDC. Next year is where may be a chance if all go well.

[Sieper]

Exactly Marti! That is also where they are working towards. We Have already seen glimpse Of that that could still be possible.

[Big Tea]

It's starting to be boring to see all that Merc talk here, to be honest. Honda is not doing bad, but they need updates. I think on race pace is a great PU. Also the car needs to improve, because it keeps to be a diva with the setup and balance. Hopefully they sort out mid season, and then maybe at 2021 will be a more close battle. This year they have to secure 2nd WCC and WDC. Next year is where may be a chance if all go well.

I would like to see Honda updates, but if we look at the teams other than Mercedes and the engines we have a scattering.

The main Merc teams have a huge advantage but there are RP and Williams, also the Renault and Ferrari teams and the Honda engine is at least compatible to them.

The Mercedes car is so far infront of the others it is making a very good engine look even better and Hamilton makes it look better again. Even just removing the 'Hamilton factor' puts Honda right up there without counting a that the car is obviously in a class of its own.

Yes more power would be nice, but I do not think there is much wrong with the Honda, as it also seems Honda are reluctant to run it beyond the safe levels.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Probably because Suzie nor Valterri no longer were in Williams... The year Bottas and Massa drove Williams to p2 in the constructors championship was thanks to the engine and straight line speed. Mercedes had something like 7 years headstart on the hybrid tech I've read (that alone should be reason to clamp down on them). That Honda has surpassed the other two manufacturers and is mounting a challenge and threatens to almost always have all 4 cars in the top ten just goes to show their integrity and determination. It's a great time to be a RedBull Honda fan and looking forward to more wins.

Are you seriously suggesting Mercedes started working on their engines years before the specifications were even decided?

Have any of you read this article?

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01 ... ince-2007/

Montezemolo: Mercedes worked on their F1 engine since 2007


Former Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has revealed that Mercedes F1 chairman Niki Lauda informed him that the German team began work on their all conquering power unit a decade ago, long before the new turbo era kicked off.

Go read the article and form your own twisted opinion.

HONDA has more upgrades but is handcuffed from introducing them. If Mercedes is so all conquering then they should let Honda development be introduced. But no Honda can't use their development because others had covid shutdowns. And people say, "well that's not fair etc" and continue to dog Honda.

And for the MB fans who keep coming to this teams board to talk crap, just because Mercedes is all conquering doesn't make you all knowing.

Maybe you should read that article again:

FIA chief Jean Todt said at the time, “Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari knew for five years what engines they would need to use this year. Mercedes has simply done a better job. Such is motor sport.”

[Sieper]

Mercedes had a headstart, and have been spending most every year running. But I still think RBR and Honda might yet stand a chance. To compete (at some point).

[63l8qrrfy6]

Mercedes had a headstart, and have been spending most every year running. But I still think RBR and Honda might yet stand a chance. To compete (at some point).

I agree on all points, but that head start cannot have been 7 years, that's outrageous.
They also had more people on it and better facilities and the fact that they are UK based is a bigger advantage than most people realise!

That RB was a dog to drive at the start of the season and now it is regularly splitting the Mercs. As soon as they get on top of the chassis/aero issues that car will fight for wins even with a tiny bit less power.

[ispano6]

Are you seriously suggesting Mercedes started working on their engines years before the specifications were even decided?

Have any of you read this article?

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01 ... ince-2007/

Montezemolo: Mercedes worked on their F1 engine since 2007


Former Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has revealed that Mercedes F1 chairman Niki Lauda informed him that the German team began work on their all conquering power unit a decade ago, long before the new turbo era kicked off.

Go read the article and form your own twisted opinion.

HONDA has more upgrades but is handcuffed from introducing them. If Mercedes is so all conquering then they should let Honda development be introduced. But no Honda can't use their development because others had covid shutdowns. And people say, "well that's not fair etc" and continue to dog Honda.

And for the MB fans who keep coming to this teams board to talk crap, just because Mercedes is all conquering doesn't make you all knowing.

Maybe you should read that article again:

FIA chief Jean Todt said at the time, “Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari knew for five years what engines they would need to use this year. Mercedes has simply done a better job. Such is motor sport.”

Ofcourse I did, I provided you the article.
Maybe you should do math and 2014-5 =2009... 2014-2007=7. The title is correct, Mercedes started developing in 2007. The Formula changes benefitted them. Honda's first hybrid engine was RA615H, but they did start developing earlier, so they were developing in 2013-2014 but didn't have real world running until 2015.

What were you trying to say? That Mercedes did not start developing earlier than others? The "Maths" here show at least 2 years. Also let me clarify my point: 7year head start from before the 2014 season.

[holeindalip]

Probably because Suzie nor Valterri no longer were in Williams... The year Bottas and Massa drove Williams to p2 in the constructors championship was thanks to the engine and straight line speed. Mercedes had something like 7 years headstart on the hybrid tech I've read (that alone should be reason to clamp down on them). That Honda has surpassed the other two manufacturers and is mounting a challenge and threatens to almost always have all 4 cars in the top ten just goes to show their integrity and determination. It's a great time to be a RedBull Honda fan and looking forward to more wins.

Are you seriously suggesting Mercedes started working on their engines years before the specifications were even decided?

Have any of you read this article?

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01 ... ince-2007/

Montezemolo: Mercedes worked on their F1 engine since 2007


Former Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has revealed that Mercedes F1 chairman Niki Lauda informed him that the German team began work on their all conquering power unit a decade ago, long before the new turbo era kicked off.

Go read the article and form your own twisted opinion.

HONDA has more upgrades but is handcuffed from introducing them. If Mercedes is so all conquering then they should let Honda development be introduced. But no Honda can't use their development because others had covid shutdowns. And people say, "well that's not fair etc" and continue to dog Honda.

And for the MB fans who keep coming to this teams board to talk crap, just because Mercedes is all conquering doesn't make you all knowing.

Actually Honda had more time to work through the shutdown for COVID since everyone else was handcuffed and is going to shutdown here coming up

[holeindalip]

What does the data say now? 66x0.2 ≠ 25 seconds eh? That too with pace to spare easily from the lead Mercedes?

How the hell did you come up with those calculation numbers? Hamilton maintained a 1.4-1.5 sec gap until about lap 11 I believe.

Looks more like .45 sec a lap by my calcs..

Don't be too harsh, it was estimated based on the long run data of Friday, if i remember correctly, which is proven to be wrong today.

As a side note not specifically to one or the other: lets try to keep it friendly, this forum is a lot less fun when conversations turn sour.

Today showed again, the Merc car is the best, others are playing catch up. As a fan of close wheel to wheel battles for the win I still hope F1 finds a way that field is closer than this. P4 and onwards was lapped! This happens too frequently, we even seem to get used to it.

I wasn’t trying to be harsh I was really just asking where he pulled those numbers from?? Sorry if it come out that way apologies....

[ispano6]

Are you seriously suggesting Mercedes started working on their engines years before the specifications were even decided?

Have any of you read this article?

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01 ... ince-2007/

Montezemolo: Mercedes worked on their F1 engine since 2007


Former Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has revealed that Mercedes F1 chairman Niki Lauda informed him that the German team began work on their all conquering power unit a decade ago, long before the new turbo era kicked off.

Go read the article and form your own twisted opinion.

HONDA has more upgrades but is handcuffed from introducing them. If Mercedes is so all conquering then they should let Honda development be introduced. But no Honda can't use their development because others had covid shutdowns. And people say, "well that's not fair etc" and continue to dog Honda.

And for the MB fans who keep coming to this teams board to talk crap, just because Mercedes is all conquering doesn't make you all knowing.

Actually Honda had more time to work through the shutdown for COVID since everyone else was handcuffed and is going to shutdown here coming up

EVERYONE knows this.
And that is a reason to stunt Honda's development? To be fair? Why not let Honda catch up 2 years of development? It will improve the show and I'm sure Mercedes will welcome the challenge since they don't want to win without a fight. It would be great for the fans too. But of course, it's Honda we're talking about...

[holeindalip]

Have any of you read this article?

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01 ... ince-2007/


Go read the article and form your own twisted opinion.

HONDA has more upgrades but is handcuffed from introducing them. If Mercedes is so all conquering then they should let Honda development be introduced. But no Honda can't use their development because others had covid shutdowns. And people say, "well that's not fair etc" and continue to dog Honda.

And for the MB fans who keep coming to this teams board to talk crap, just because Mercedes is all conquering doesn't make you all knowing.

Actually Honda had more time to work through the shutdown for COVID since everyone else was handcuffed and is going to shutdown here coming up

EVERYONE knows this.
And that is a reason to stunt Honda's development? To be fair? Why not let Honda catch up 2 years of development? It will improve the show and I'm sure Mercedes will welcome the challenge since they don't want to win without a fight. It would be great for the fans too. But of course, it's Honda we're talking about...

Do you really think a 5% improvement will make that much of a difference?