Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[63l8qrrfy6]

Ok. Firstly, I think, we have to consider that this is an engineering show and they, off course, will say we are competing at FE too.
In FE there are many things standart or producing by different manufacturers. For example batteries comes from mclaren at.
If I am not wrong Mercedes is new at Fe but working with F1 pu for years. And they immidiatly need experiance from FE department? It is a bit strange. Ok maybe they hired experienced guys there. But Fe is full electric and has zero relation with ers. I accept that there can be something to learn from FE. But I don't think there is much for F1. When so much things are standart, manufacturers ( if we can say so for FE) are there for being there generally.

What are you on about? Do you know what ERS is ?

I think you are focused on electric motor part and me to relation of them. FE has not a system working like that way and their energy recuparation also different from formula 1. One's main power is ice other's e.m.

They both have inverters and electric motors. Which aspect of FE is not transferable to F1 ?

[etusch]

What are you on about? Do you know what ERS is ?

I think you are focused on electric motor part and me to relation of them. FE has not a system working like that way and their energy recuparation also different from formula 1. One's main power is ice other's e.m.

They both have inverters and electric motors. Which aspect of FE is not transferable to F1 ?

just read following sentence of bold part.

[Craigy]

What are you on about? Do you know what ERS is ?

I think you are focused on electric motor part and me to relation of them. FE has not a system working like that way and their energy recuparation also different from formula 1. One's main power is ice other's e.m.

They both have inverters and electric motors. Which aspect of FE is not transferable to F1 ?

The battery manufacturers for FE was originally Williams and is now McLaren. McLaren's eMachine was the original Formula E motor.

I too would like to know what isn't transferable!

[etusch]

I think you are focused on electric motor part and me to relation of them. FE has not a system working like that way and their energy recuparation also different from formula 1. One's main power is ice other's e.m.

They both have inverters and electric motors. Which aspect of FE is not transferable to F1 ?

The battery manufacturers for FE was originally Williams and is now McLaren. McLaren's eMachine was the original Formula E motor.

I too would like to know what isn't transferable!

If it were wec I could understand but what will you transfer from fully electric car? Software? there is not ers and gears and there is standart battery. Did Mercedes produce an electric motor which produce more torq with same power/same consumption or lasting long with same battery by knowledge/eperience from FE. If so I accept that.
In the other hand merc's power is making its difference at q where all teams using full battery and I think merc's performance comes from ice. Mercedes's performance was the main subject here, so it looks like FE not brought much to there. Some forumers thinks as if I am speaking with knowledge from research on the car. No this is just my opinion.

[63l8qrrfy6]

They both have inverters and electric motors. Which aspect of FE is not transferable to F1 ?

The battery manufacturers for FE was originally Williams and is now McLaren. McLaren's eMachine was the original Formula E motor.

I too would like to know what isn't transferable!

If it were wec I could understand but what will you transfer from fully electric car? Software? there is not ers and gears and there is standart battery. Did Mercedes produce an electric motor which produce more torq with same power/same consumption or lasting long with same battery by knowledge/eperience from FE. If so I accept that.
In the other hand merc's power is making its difference at q where all teams using full battery and I think merc's performance comes from ice. Mercedes's performance was the main subject here, so it looks like FE not brought much to there. Some forumers thinks as if I am speaking with knowledge from research on the car. No this is just my opinion.

Haven't looked up what ERS is, have you ?

[Big Tea]

They both have inverters and electric motors. Which aspect of FE is not transferable to F1 ?

The battery manufacturers for FE was originally Williams and is now McLaren. McLaren's eMachine was the original Formula E motor.

I too would like to know what isn't transferable!

If it were wec I could understand but what will you transfer from fully electric car? Software? there is not ers and gears and there is standart battery. Did Mercedes produce an electric motor which produce more torq with same power/same consumption or lasting long with same battery by knowledge/eperience from FE. If so I accept that.
In the other hand merc's power is making its difference at q where all teams using full battery and I think merc's performance comes from ice. Mercedes's performance was the main subject here, so it looks like FE not brought much to there. Some forumers thinks as if I am speaking with knowledge from research on the car. No this is just my opinion.

The 'letric part has efficiency at both ends. Generating with less loss ( then storage ) and use with more efficiency.
As this is the only motive FE has, I would assume they have been paying more attention to small % which could now be intigrated inthe F1 car

[ispano6]

Probably electrical efficiency since that’s what that series is based on????

Do you have any insights to tell us? I wonder how they do it very much.

Probably read this. Cowell thinks they've made gains from their FE program

https://insideracing.com/index.php/form ... -formula-e

I had posted this in the other thread:

Cowell said lessons learned from the FE development have already benefited Mercedes' six-time title-double-winning F1 programme.

"Formula E is a fascinating championship with the electric machine as the only device propelling the car," said Cowell.

"The efficiencies of that electric machine, the inverter and all the control systems are paramount, and the torque accuracy delivery is crucial.

"Some of the development learning there has now fed back into F1, so from Melbourne this year, our F1 hybrid system will benefit from our Formula E development work.

"We've also made some manufacturing improvements that originate in the FE programme.

"We manufacture our own electric machines and some of the techniques developed for Formula E are being applied to the F1 electric machines this year as well.

"This is exciting to see; in the past, we've seen gains from the Project One [hypercar] development feed back into F1, now we are also seeing Formula E engineering and manufacturing technology feeding back into F1.

F1 probably needs to hire an FE specialist to bridge their knowledge gap when it comes to FE electrical systems.

[etusch]

The battery manufacturers for FE was originally Williams and is now McLaren. McLaren's eMachine was the original Formula E motor.

I too would like to know what isn't transferable!

If it were wec I could understand but what will you transfer from fully electric car? Software? there is not ers and gears and there is standart battery. Did Mercedes produce an electric motor which produce more torq with same power/same consumption or lasting long with same battery by knowledge/eperience from FE. If so I accept that.
In the other hand merc's power is making its difference at q where all teams using full battery and I think merc's performance comes from ice. Mercedes's performance was the main subject here, so it looks like FE not brought much to there. Some forumers thinks as if I am speaking with knowledge from research on the car. No this is just my opinion.

The 'letric part has efficiency at both ends. Generating with less loss ( then storage ) and use with more efficiency.
As this is the only motive FE has, I would assume they have been paying more attention to small % which could now be intigrated inthe F1 car

When FE have so much restriction and many parts produced by other manufacturers they have very small area to develop. This may cause a bit more knowledge at that area. If they get more knowledge about torq delivery it is ok. It is important with FE because less grip with the tyres and much lesser df grip. But I would say that (maybe it is not true) F1 teams have to be more advanced at that area because of e.m. give extra torq to active ice torq. FE must be more smoot at every rpm except start.
In the same time this lack of tyre grip and dowsnforce grip they can not have recuparation as agressive as F1 do at breaking.
If I am not wrong Renault is there long before Mercedes. What is their situation compared to Mercedes? Lets except good knowledge comes from them to F1, lets accept they are more better than F1 teams hybrid system developers. Still this is not explaining merc's engine performance. Renault also must be there or must be better if it were origin of performance merc have.

[Wouter]

Why downvote @Etusch because he has a different opinion?
Even two downvotes for two posts on the same topic today.
Just get into the discussion and explain why you don't agree with him.
That is the purpose of a forum.

[etusch]

Why downvote @Etusch because he has a different opinion?
Even two downvotes for two posts on the same topic today.
Just get into the discussion and explain why you don't agree with him.
That is the purpose of a forum.

Thank you @Wouter. Downvote is not important for me but I would like to read why I am wrong. I would like to read how much improvement made in time by brand's teams at the areas they can work on, to make cars go faster and longer.

[NL_Fer]

From the second year FE manufacturers have developed the electric motor and gearbox themselves and gained allot.

Why could this technology not be usefull in MGU-K development? MGU-K is limited to 120kw electric energy. The more efficient, the more powerfull.

Although I believe most important in F1 is still ICE combustion and Turbocharger technology.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Why downvote @Etusch because he has a different opinion?
Even two downvotes for two posts on the same topic today.
Just get into the discussion and explain why you don't agree with him.
That is the purpose of a forum.

His opinion is that Formula E has no ERS.
I can't argue with that.

[etusch]

Why downvote @Etusch because he has a different opinion?
Even two downvotes for two posts on the same topic today.
Just get into the discussion and explain why you don't agree with him.
That is the purpose of a forum.

His opinion is that Formula E has no ERS.
I can't argue with that.

I thought it as recuperationfrom exhaust gases and talked according to it. I don't know why but when I see ERS I understand it as Energy Recovery from exhaust. If you review my comments you can see it and you could see it before I say it. But at the end you are right, I was the person using wrong words.

[etusch]

From the second year FE manufacturers have developed the electric motor and gearbox themselves and gained allot.

Why could this technology not be usefull in MGU-K development? MGU-K is limited to 120kw electric energy. The more efficient, the more powerfull.

Although I believe most important in F1 is still ICE combustion and Turbocharger technology.

It could be usefull for mgu-k. But FE has more powerfull electric motor but lesser grip at back. It must be harder to get good recovery as much as F1 had I think. F1 also has peak technology, uses best parts and engineers and working for years with hybrid system. Everytime there can be someone else better but I am not sure if FE better than F1.
I don't know how you can be more powerful when it limited by rules in both series. About efficiency someone must tell more. If I read something convincing I am ready to accept. How FE teams makes more effective electric motor than F1 teams ?

[Tommy Cookers]

.....MGU-K is limited to 120kw electric energy .....

the electrical power supplied to the MGU-K is limited to 126.3 kW
if efficiency is 95% end-to-end the crankshaft will receive 120 kW mechanical power from the MGU-K
more if the efficiency is more