[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[Big Tea]

I was suggesting maybe it was possible to feed it back into use as fuel. I know only 'clean' air is allowed into the inlet, but I had not considered using it to power a fuel cell. As I said previously, I love a good CT.

It takes a substantial amount of electrical input to produce any usable amount of H2. Plus, you'd have the added weight of the FC. I doubt they are doing anything of the sort.

As you, I am reasonably sure they are not doing it, but just for interest .

Am I correct in thinking it is not the generating power that is the problem but storing or transferring it legally?
What about using spare regen to produce it and storing it in a bladder or even the space above the fuel in the tank?

As I said though, it is specified that only fuel from the tank and air from 'outside' can be used, so it is not 'grey' but illegal, unless the tank can legally be vented into the manifold

[SmallSoldier]

You make it complicate without need. The cars are on par, but with old engine Verstappen was limited. Mercedes, still on same engine, can push more when needed. Very simple

Actually, it is the other way around... The Mercedes engine was older than Verstappen’s by a race... If there is performance loss from race to race on an engine, Mercedes was at a disadvantage.


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I don't agree with you. You suppose the two engine have identical durability and reliability. But is not. Honda needs to turn down engine to make 6 or 7 gps

You are assuming that they don’t have the same reliability and even when I tend to agree, the facts are that Mercedes run a PU that was older than RBR... The facts dictate that Mercedes didn’t have an advantage from a PU perspective.

If you want to assume that:

A) Mercedes PU’s performance degradation through lifetime is lesser than Honda
B) Mercedes PU’s can last more races than Honda’s
C) Mercedes PU’s even when run for longer still have a sizable advantage over Honda

Then your comment would have validity, but those are a lot of assumptions that I’m afraid non of us have enough data to validate... The only thing that we do know is that RBR’s PU was in their 5th GP while Mercedes was on their 6th GP.

If we also consider that the PU’s are meant to last 6 GP’s, it wouldn’t be surprising if Mercedes run their PU a little down to ensure reliability at the back end of the life cycle.


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[Juzh]

Just wanna chime in and say merc really did use strat 3 for Q3 instead of strat 2 they normally use. It was made pretty clear on the radio to Bottas.

[Moore77]

Actually, it is the other way around... The Mercedes engine was older than Verstappen’s by a race... If there is performance loss from race to race on an engine, Mercedes was at a disadvantage.


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I don't agree with you. You suppose the two engine have identical durability and reliability. But is not. Honda needs to turn down engine to make 6 or 7 gps

You are assuming that they don’t have the same reliability and even when I tend to agree, the facts are that Mercedes run a PU that was older than RBR... The facts dictate that Mercedes didn’t have an advantage from a PU perspective.

If you want to assume that:

A) Mercedes PU’s performance degradation through lifetime is lesser than Honda
B) Mercedes PU’s can last more races than Honda’s
C) Mercedes PU’s even when run for longer still have a sizable advantage over Honda

Then your comment would have validity, but those are a lot of assumptions that I’m afraid non of us have enough data to validate... The only thing that we do know is that RBR’s PU was in their 5th GP while Mercedes was on their 6th GP.

If we also consider that the PU’s are meant to last 6 GP’s, it wouldn’t be surprising if Mercedes run their PU a little down to ensure reliability at the back end of the life cycle.


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If one read Pany's statement, he is resigned to the fact that, Honda, like it not, does not have the same reliability and endurance that Mercedes has and regardless of their usage, Mercedes still churns out more power than Honda, which is why he considers it's a handicap for Max.

[Wouter]

Interview Helmut Marko in Speedweek. Two quotes. Google Translated.

Given Hamilton's run of the game, is the goal of making Max Verstappen the youngest champion still realistic?

Helmut Marko: Of course it is.

How so?

Because we stayed below our means in Spain. We were there on Friday with very good long runs at Mercedes level. In the race, however, both types of tires overheated on the rear axle, so we had to reduce our speed. It was even worse with Alex Albon than with Max Verstappen because we had gone in the wrong direction with him in the setup too. In addition, from Belgium the 'party mode' (extra power with the engine, note) is prohibited by the FIA. This not only affects qualification, it also affects the in and out lap (before / after pit stop, note) and in overtaking maneuvers.
Does that mean you expect Red Bull Racing to be even closer to Mercedes from Spa?

Yes. Although we still have certain disadvantages with our chassis, which is somehow unpredictable because data from the wind tunnel is not reflected on the track. But we're working hard on that. We are bringing new parts to Belgium again to promote stability. We're not even at half-time now.

....................

At AlphaTauri, Gasly drives solidly, but Kvyat is falling behind.

Yes, Daniil doesn’t perform as we expected. But we're still just before half-time. And the Auer (Lucas, note) is not on my list, if that's what you mean.
No. But who would have an F1 super license from the Red Bull squad?

Tsunoda in Formula 2 and Lawson in Formula 3 are currently in positions that qualify for a super license.
But we are not thinking of exchanging Kvyat.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... ntakt.html

Whole article English translated. https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ntakt.html

[DChemTech]

Interview Helmut Marko in Speedweek. Two quotes. Google Translated.

Given Hamilton's run of the game, is the goal of making Max Verstappen the youngest champion still realistic?

Helmut Marko: Of course it is.

How so?

Because we stayed below our means in Spain. We were there on Friday with very good long runs at Mercedes level. In the race, however, both types of tires overheated on the rear axle, so we had to reduce our speed. It was even worse with Alex Albon than with Max Verstappen because we had gone in the wrong direction with him in the setup too. In addition, from Belgium the 'party mode' (extra power with the engine, note) is prohibited by the FIA. This not only affects qualification, it also affects the in and out lap (before / after pit stop, note) and in overtaking maneuvers.
Does that mean you expect Red Bull Racing to be even closer to Mercedes from Spa?

Yes. Although we still have certain disadvantages with our chassis, which is somehow unpredictable because data from the wind tunnel is not reflected on the track. But we're working hard on that. We are bringing new parts to Belgium again to promote stability. We're not even at half-time now.

....................

At AlphaTauri, Gasly drives solidly, but Kvyat is falling behind.

Yes, Daniil doesn’t perform as we expected. But we're still just before half-time. And the Auer (Lucas, note) is not on my list, if that's what you mean.
No. But who would have an F1 super license from the Red Bull squad?

Tsunoda in Formula 2 and Lawson in Formula 3 are currently in positions that qualify for a super license.
But we are not thinking of exchanging Kvyat.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... ntakt.html

Whole article English translated. https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ntakt.html

Given Marko's history, one could read the last sentence as "Albon back to AT, Hulkenberg for Red Bull"

(note, I don't seriously expect that, since, all his meandering in lineups aside, he does stick to one principle - to have drivers from their own academy only, for better or worse)

[tangodjango]

Interview Helmut Marko in Speedweek. Two quotes. Google Translated.

Given Hamilton's run of the game, is the goal of making Max Verstappen the youngest champion still realistic?

Helmut Marko: Of course it is.

How so?

Because we stayed below our means in Spain. We were there on Friday with very good long runs at Mercedes level. In the race, however, both types of tires overheated on the rear axle, so we had to reduce our speed. It was even worse with Alex Albon than with Max Verstappen because we had gone in the wrong direction with him in the setup too. In addition, from Belgium the 'party mode' (extra power with the engine, note) is prohibited by the FIA. This not only affects qualification, it also affects the in and out lap (before / after pit stop, note) and in overtaking maneuvers.
Does that mean you expect Red Bull Racing to be even closer to Mercedes from Spa?

Yes. Although we still have certain disadvantages with our chassis, which is somehow unpredictable because data from the wind tunnel is not reflected on the track. But we're working hard on that. We are bringing new parts to Belgium again to promote stability. We're not even at half-time now.

....................

At AlphaTauri, Gasly drives solidly, but Kvyat is falling behind.

Yes, Daniil doesn’t perform as we expected. But we're still just before half-time. And the Auer (Lucas, note) is not on my list, if that's what you mean.
No. But who would have an F1 super license from the Red Bull squad?

Tsunoda in Formula 2 and Lawson in Formula 3 are currently in positions that qualify for a super license.
But we are not thinking of exchanging Kvyat.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... ntakt.html

Whole article English translated. https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ntakt.html

Good old Helmut will keep saying the same thing even after the last race in Abu Dhabi

[Big Tea]

Interview Helmut Marko in Speedweek. Two quotes. Google Translated.

Given Hamilton's run of the game, is the goal of making Max Verstappen the youngest champion still realistic?

Helmut Marko: Of course it is.

How so?

Because we stayed below our means in Spain. We were there on Friday with very good long runs at Mercedes level. In the race, however, both types of tires overheated on the rear axle, so we had to reduce our speed. It was even worse with Alex Albon than with Max Verstappen because we had gone in the wrong direction with him in the setup too. In addition, from Belgium the 'party mode' (extra power with the engine, note) is prohibited by the FIA. This not only affects qualification, it also affects the in and out lap (before / after pit stop, note) and in overtaking maneuvers.
Does that mean you expect Red Bull Racing to be even closer to Mercedes from Spa?

Yes. Although we still have certain disadvantages with our chassis, which is somehow unpredictable because data from the wind tunnel is not reflected on the track. But we're working hard on that. We are bringing new parts to Belgium again to promote stability. We're not even at half-time now.

....................

At AlphaTauri, Gasly drives solidly, but Kvyat is falling behind.

Yes, Daniil doesn’t perform as we expected. But we're still just before half-time. And the Auer (Lucas, note) is not on my list, if that's what you mean.
No. But who would have an F1 super license from the Red Bull squad?

Tsunoda in Formula 2 and Lawson in Formula 3 are currently in positions that qualify for a super license.
But we are not thinking of exchanging Kvyat.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... ntakt.html

Whole article English translated. https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ntakt.html

Given Marko's history, one could read the last sentence as "Albon back to AT, Hulkenberg for Red Bull"

(note, I don't seriously expect that, since, all his meandering in lineups aside, he does stick to one principle - to have drivers from their own academy only, for better or worse)

I think a full uninterrupted season at STR would do Albon the world of good.

[DChemTech]

Interview Helmut Marko in Speedweek. Two quotes. Google Translated.




https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... ntakt.html

Whole article English translated. https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ntakt.html

Given Marko's history, one could read the last sentence as "Albon back to AT, Hulkenberg for Red Bull"

(note, I don't seriously expect that, since, all his meandering in lineups aside, he does stick to one principle - to have drivers from their own academy only, for better or worse)

I think a full uninterrupted season at STR would do Albon the world of good.

It probably would - it doesn't hurt Gasly it seems, and I wouldn't mind Hulkenberg at RB - but 'no drivers from outside our own program' seems to be the one rule Marko is not willing to break...

[etusch]

Red Bull and Mercedes are preparing new updates for the Belgian GP.

Red Bull started the 2020 season with target of making Max Verstappen youngest world champion in Formula 1 history, and the young driver is now second in the championship.

Overall, while Red Bull did not find what they hoped for in the first six races, Max Verstappen managed to get one win and five podiums. But Mercedes is clearly ahead of Red Bull right now.

Red Bull is preparing major updates for Belgium and Monza, where it will be banned Q modes.

There will also be C2, C3 and C4 tires in those races,with which Verstappen won the 70th anniversary GP.

“The situation in Barcelona was the opposite of Silverstone,” Marko said. At the 70th Anniversary Grand Prix, Mercedes wore the tires faster, and this time we have experienced the same. "

"Hard tires are not very suitable for us and our vehicle works better, especially on softer ones."

"We triumphed at Silverstone with the C2-C4 tire choice, and we are delighted that it will be used in both Spa and Monza."

" we've produced a few new parts that we hope they will eliminate the ongoing issues with the vehicle since the season start. These should help us achieve better results." he said.

Mercedes spokesperson confirmed that they are preparing new tracks for the Belgian Grand Prix.

Google Translate from
https://tr.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... n=widget-1

[Wouter]

From Motorsport today.
Let's hope it's just a rumor that the ban won't take place until Italy.

Helmut Marko: “We performed below our standards in Spain. We were on the Mercedes level with our long runs on Friday. Only during the race the rear tires on both compounds got way too hot so we had to adjust our pace. With Alex Albon it was even worse than with Max Verstappen because something went wrong with the set-up. ”

The pace is therefore good and in addition, from Belgium the 'party modes' are banned by the FIA, continues Marko. "Those engine settings not only affect qualifying, but are also important during the in and out laps [before and after a pit stop] and during overtaking maneuvers."

Marko therefore expects Red Bull to be closer to Mercedes in Spa. “Indeed, although we still have a disadvantage from our suspension system. It is somewhat unpredictable because the data from the wind tunnel does not exactly match that of the circuit. But we are working hard on that. We are taking new parts with us to Belgium to improve stability. ”

[lio007]

If there are correlation issues, I dont understand why they dont use aero rakes or flow-viz in FP the last couple of races.

[Moore77]

From Motorsport today.
Let's hope it's just a rumor that the ban won't take place until Italy.

Helmut Marko: “We performed below our standards in Spain. We were on the Mercedes level with our long runs on Friday. Only during the race the rear tires on both compounds got way too hot so we had to adjust our pace. With Alex Albon it was even worse than with Max Verstappen because something went wrong with the set-up. ”

The pace is therefore good and in addition, from Belgium the 'party modes' are banned by the FIA, continues Marko. "Those engine settings not only affect qualifying, but are also important during the in and out laps [before and after a pit stop] and during overtaking maneuvers."

Marko therefore expects Red Bull to be closer to Mercedes in Spa. “Indeed, although we still have a disadvantage from our suspension system. It is somewhat unpredictable because the data from the wind tunnel does not exactly match that of the circuit. But we are working hard on that. We are taking new parts with us to Belgium to improve stability. ”

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/20/ban ... rand-prix/

At a Power Unit Working Group meeting held on Monday, two engine manufacturers are said by sources to have been unhappy about the changes. A further delay to the introduction of the ban, until later in the season or even next year, was also allegedly discussed.

I am really curious if we would get to know who those two manufacturers are! One of them can't be Ferrari as they are out of the game. I am certain if Mercedes has mooted the objective of postponement forward, there would be no takers.

[Sayeman]

From Motorsport today.
Let's hope it's just a rumor that the ban won't take place until Italy.

Helmut Marko: “We performed below our standards in Spain. We were on the Mercedes level with our long runs on Friday. Only during the race the rear tires on both compounds got way too hot so we had to adjust our pace. With Alex Albon it was even worse than with Max Verstappen because something went wrong with the set-up. ”

The pace is therefore good and in addition, from Belgium the 'party modes' are banned by the FIA, continues Marko. "Those engine settings not only affect qualifying, but are also important during the in and out laps [before and after a pit stop] and during overtaking maneuvers."

Marko therefore expects Red Bull to be closer to Mercedes in Spa. “Indeed, although we still have a disadvantage from our suspension system. It is somewhat unpredictable because the data from the wind tunnel does not exactly match that of the circuit. But we are working hard on that. We are taking new parts with us to Belgium to improve stability. ”

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/20/ban ... rand-prix/

At a Power Unit Working Group meeting held on Monday, two engine manufacturers are said by sources to have been unhappy about the changes. A further delay to the introduction of the ban, until later in the season or even next year, was also allegedly discussed.

I am really curious if we would get to know who those two manufacturers are! One of them can't be Ferrari as they are out of the game. I am certain if Mercedes has mooted the objective of postponement forward, there would be no takers.

Other one has to be Reno. They aint winning anything anytime soon so why not block RB from winning either.

[Moore77]

From Motorsport today.
Let's hope it's just a rumor that the ban won't take place until Italy.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/20/ban ... rand-prix/

At a Power Unit Working Group meeting held on Monday, two engine manufacturers are said by sources to have been unhappy about the changes. A further delay to the introduction of the ban, until later in the season or even next year, was also allegedly discussed.

I am really curious if we would get to know who those two manufacturers are! One of them can't be Ferrari as they are out of the game. I am certain if Mercedes has mooted the objective of postponement forward, there would be no takers.

Other one has to be Reno. They aint winning anything anytime soon so why not block RB from winning either.

If Honda has nothing to lose, they shouldn't be agreeing to postpone the quali mode ban. If FIA realizes the ban is going to hold Mercedes back, they would certainly move forward in imposing the ban ASAP. The problem is, if FIA investigation into ERS designs reveals the culprit to be other than Mercedes, I don't see how this ban would help the competition and could easily see this talk going away without a ban.