Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[restless]

Or Toyota’s fluoride-ion solid state battery, which was set to be launched to the public during 2020’s olympic games, or any of the other solid state batteries... https://www.imec-int.com/en/articles/b ... technology
Big changes coming relatively soon.

afaik, Honda has know-how there too... and they cooperate.
These batteries are supposed to enter mass-market end of 2023, start of 2024
The plan was to demonstrate the batteries at Tokyo Olympic... but plants are being build as we write here and mass market is less than 4y ahead

[Wouter]

https://note.com/hondaf1/n/n53dab24c01d8

Nice to know about the Honda battery. Just quickly translated the most important sentences and not corrected.

Negoro-san speaking, living in the UK since mid-2016, responsible for the development of the energy storage system (battery) that is part of the F1 hybrid system at HRD-UK, the British race base of Honda F1.

The current Honda power source is basically all developed at HRD-Sakura in Japan, but the only battery development here is at HRD-UK. This is because it is more efficient to do it in Europe, where tests are held, due to restrictions imposed by transport regulations. The assignment imposed on me during my stay in Japan and from the second half of 2016 in the UK was the independence of HRD-UK as a development base for batteries.

HRD-UK's current battery development team consists of a number of expatriates and many local members. When HRD-UK was first launched in 2014, there was only one building, mainly as a base for race members and PU maintenance teams, but in 2016 it was expanded to two. Since I was stationed, I hired staff for battery development / design / testing / assembly / purchase, etc., and gradually expanded the number of people to become an independent development base. Considering that I was the only battery developer in the beginning, I am deeply moved by the fact that we have grown to this size.

After a long period of development, we are very happy to have been able to introduce the first compact and lightweight battery that we produced ourselves.
We have all experienced the joy surrounding that milestone. I'm glad we were able to do our bit for Red Bull by developing a compact and light battery.

[Jaisonas]

Not to mention the fact Mercedes still secured pole by 7+ tenths in Barcelona using Strat 3, which is the first time I can remember them using that mode in Q3.

I cant understand why you guys keep bringing that up. Strats are to mercedes what modes are for honda: ers deployment modes.
They have nothing to do with qualifying modes which have to be programmed in the ecu before the quali start.

[63l8qrrfy6]

As far as I know Honda have used saft pouch cells in their F1 battery, same as Ferrari actually.

[kasio]

Not to mention the fact Mercedes still secured pole by 7+ tenths in Barcelona using Strat 3, which is the first time I can remember them using that mode in Q3.

I cant understand why you guys keep bringing that up. Strats are to mercedes what modes are for honda: ers deployment modes.
They have nothing to do with qualifying modes which have to be programmed in the ecu before the quali start.

why would that be needed? you have modes, which apparently are switching subroutines how to process input and provide different output.. all sensor input and( i am no expert ) and whatever else stuff does and shouldnt change. so why you would need to reprogram anything?

[Big Tea]

Not to mention the fact Mercedes still secured pole by 7+ tenths in Barcelona using Strat 3, which is the first time I can remember them using that mode in Q3.

I cant understand why you guys keep bringing that up. Strats are to mercedes what modes are for honda: ers deployment modes.
They have nothing to do with qualifying modes which have to be programmed in the ecu before the quali start.

why would that be needed? you have modes, which apparently are switching subroutines how to process input and provide different output.. all sensor input and( i am no expert ) and whatever else stuff does and shouldnt change. so why you would need to reprogram anything?

I also see it as more a hot key than something not otherwise available. It probably just saves two knob settings and a set of button presses. As I said elsewhere too, I believe it can easily be reprogramed to any 'mode number' they wish, so watching the driver select a mode does not really tell anything.

[GhostF1]

Didn't Honda introduce their new PU early for "reliability" purposes?

They rushed forward a second specification, which ended up only being half what they wanted to bring, which was the reliability side anyway, no announced performance gain.
It wouldn't matter anyway as they didn't introduce it mid-season as a "reliability upgrade", it was rushed to make the first race of the season. So it's not suspect at all.

If anything, the fact Mercedes burned through their first MGU-K on all six cars smells a little odd to me (and no they are not in the pool for any of them, they are all expired). Renault and Merc having a noticeable performance difference between their qualification and race modes, as in it's a pretty big jump, that also could raise eyebrows. If it was Ferrari, I'd be shocked because their PU is a little bit of a slug at the moment so it'd look pretty poor if they were still circumventing the rules for that performance and Honda in general I'd be surprised if they were just outright cheating, culturally... it's not something I can imagine them doing nor can I see anything suspect with their performance on track.

I mean Ferrari have gotten away with whatever it was they were doing without any punishment, what's to say Merc's sudden appeal withdrawal last year wasn't a final finger to the FIA in that they can go down the line of "fine, we'll do what Ferrari are doing too if there's no Championship penalty or public, financial/award repercussions".
I mean what's the worst that can happen? the FIA strike another quiet deal but with Mercedes this time and tell them to stop doing what they're doing ala Ferrari last year?

The whole saga has opened so many potential holes it isn't funny. (this is all theoretical by the way, I'm merely making suggestions, not accusing)

Reliability and performance are inextricably linked. The more reliable and robust your PU is, the harder you can run it. Full stop.

Honda has made massive progress in the past 2 seasons. Not alleging they're doing anything either, but let's not shortchange the amount of performance they've injected into that PU over the past 2 seasons.

Where's the evidence that there's a massive difference between Merc's qualifying and race modes? They look pretty handy in the race to me.

Mark Hughes had a pretty good piece out a week ago about how everyone is massively overestimating Merc's supposed Q3 mode, noting that that they historically take less out of their tires in Q2.

Not to mention the fact Mercedes still secured pole by 7+ tenths in Barcelona using Strat 3, which is the first time I can remember them using that mode in Q3.

I think we're about to have our answers in Monza. And I won't be surprised to see Mercedes using a lower-deployment mode in Spa, again, as well.

To even imply Merc said "Oh, Ferrari got away with something, so we'll go for it too" is pretty much implying they're cheating. And to also imply that Honda, or any other team or manufacturer, isn't or hasn't pushed the gray areas of the rules to the limit, is, I must say (respectfully), naive/wishful thinking.

I think you're misreading me or adding a couple extra bits to make my post sound like something else. I'm not discounting Honda's huge progress over the last couple of years, it's been hugely impressive, but I haven't seen a thing that would make me suspect about it, they've been hugely transparent since 2015, and it's a joy to watch their progress rather publicly. As for reliability and performance being linked. Most definitely! But the question was "didn't Honda bring a reliability upgrade in the season?" As to which I replied, they didn't, they brought forward a new specification to begin the season, there is nothing wrong with that. This is addressing the implication by the FIA that in season reliability upgrade requests bring performance gain.
And I didn't say there are manufacturers that haven't exploited a "grey area", I believe it's highly likely all of them have (to be frank, I have suspicions Honda's cylinder cutting off throttle and exhaust crackles in some quali modes are exactly one of those grey areas). But exploiting a grey area is not cheating... Bypassing a sensor to use more fuel or bypassing monitored circuitry to add more power to the MGU-K is. That's a blatant run around of a known technical restriction.

Evidence of Mercedes quali jump!? They are significantly faster than Red Bull Honda in quali, only to come back to more typical gaps in race. The gap falls from 1s to 0.3. Now we know Honda has a pretty handy race mode and it's a safe bet they are second best in that respect and that is probably helping them but Merc turn it down for the race substantially, so do Renault.

I'm also not implying they're cheating. We don't actually know what Ferrari were doing and there has been zero consequence/punishment, we can only assume the FIA has told them to stop doing what they're doing, which is likely a grey area exploit, and to protect Ferrari's I.P they have not disclosed what it was. So if Mercedes have a pretty good hunch that they knew what Fez were doing, they obviously see no harm in also doing it as the FIA have not made a single public clarification due to Ferrari's request.

So yes what I am implying is, a team will take advantage of that fact and also utilise whatever grey area exploit it is until they are told, or a directive comes out.. publicly, that shuts that area down for good.

[zibby43]

I think you're misreading me or adding a couple extra bits to make my post sound like something else. I'm not discounting Honda's huge progress over the last couple of years, it's been hugely impressive, but I haven't seen a thing that would make me suspect about it, they've been hugely transparent since 2015, and it's a joy to watch their progress rather publicly. As for reliability and performance being linked. Most definitely! But the question was "didn't Honda bring a reliability upgrade in the season?" As to which I replied, they didn't, they brought forward a new specification to begin the season, there is nothing wrong with that. This is addressing the implication by the FIA that in season reliability upgrade requests bring performance gain.
And I didn't say there are manufacturers that haven't exploited a "grey area", I believe it's highly likely all of them have (to be frank, I have suspicions Honda's cylinder cutting off throttle and exhaust crackles in some quali modes are exactly one of those grey areas). But exploiting a grey area is not cheating... Bypassing a sensor to use more fuel or bypassing monitored circuitry to add more power to the MGU-K is. That's a blatant run around of a known technical restriction.

Evidence of Mercedes quali jump!? They are significantly faster than Red Bull Honda in quali, only to come back to more typical gaps in race. The gap falls from 1s to 0.3. Now we know Honda has a pretty handy race mode and it's a safe bet they are second best in that respect and that is probably helping them but Merc turn it down for the race substantially, so do Renault.

I'm also not implying they're cheating. We don't actually know what Ferrari were doing and there has been zero consequence/punishment, we can only assume the FIA has told them to stop doing what they're doing, which is likely a grey area exploit, and to protect Ferrari's I.P they have not disclosed what it was. So if Mercedes have a pretty good hunch that they knew what Fez were doing, they obviously see no harm in also doing it as the FIA have not made a single public clarification due to Ferrari's request.

So yes what I am implying is, a team will take advantage of that fact and also utilise whatever grey area exploit it is until they are told, or a directive comes out.. publicly, that shuts that area down for good.

Single lap pace is not down solely to PU performance. Mercedes, as of Barcelona, are currently faster than Red Bull in every type of corner.

The W11 is a big jump up from the W10 in large part because it’s got even more downforce, but also because it’s substantially more efficient than its predecessor, which helps straight line performance.

Yeah, Merc improved their PU over their winter to the tune of a few tenths, which is impressive. But they haven’t once this year exhibited the bizarre behavior that Ferrari did in places like Singapore last year when they’d gain 7 tenths on a straight with other-worldly acceleration at the final stretch of the straight there.

If you’re Merc, why do you need to turn the PU up anymore in the race when you’re ahead of your competitor by 24s while cruising turned down already? Just to beat up the tires and put more strain on the engine?

[ispano6]

I think you're misreading me or adding a couple extra bits to make my post sound like something else. I'm not discounting Honda's huge progress over the last couple of years, it's been hugely impressive, but I haven't seen a thing that would make me suspect about it, they've been hugely transparent since 2015, and it's a joy to watch their progress rather publicly. As for reliability and performance being linked. Most definitely! But the question was "didn't Honda bring a reliability upgrade in the season?" As to which I replied, they didn't, they brought forward a new specification to begin the season, there is nothing wrong with that. This is addressing the implication by the FIA that in season reliability upgrade requests bring performance gain.
And I didn't say there are manufacturers that haven't exploited a "grey area", I believe it's highly likely all of them have (to be frank, I have suspicions Honda's cylinder cutting off throttle and exhaust crackles in some quali modes are exactly one of those grey areas). But exploiting a grey area is not cheating... Bypassing a sensor to use more fuel or bypassing monitored circuitry to add more power to the MGU-K is. That's a blatant run around of a known technical restriction.

Evidence of Mercedes quali jump!? They are significantly faster than Red Bull Honda in quali, only to come back to more typical gaps in race. The gap falls from 1s to 0.3. Now we know Honda has a pretty handy race mode and it's a safe bet they are second best in that respect and that is probably helping them but Merc turn it down for the race substantially, so do Renault.

I'm also not implying they're cheating. We don't actually know what Ferrari were doing and there has been zero consequence/punishment, we can only assume the FIA has told them to stop doing what they're doing, which is likely a grey area exploit, and to protect Ferrari's I.P they have not disclosed what it was. So if Mercedes have a pretty good hunch that they knew what Fez were doing, they obviously see no harm in also doing it as the FIA have not made a single public clarification due to Ferrari's request.

So yes what I am implying is, a team will take advantage of that fact and also utilise whatever grey area exploit it is until they are told, or a directive comes out.. publicly, that shuts that area down for good.

Single lap pace is not down solely to PU performance. Mercedes, as of Barcelona, are currently faster than Red Bull in every type of corner.

The W11 is a big jump up from the W10 in large part because it’s got even more downforce, but also because it’s substantially more efficient than its predecessor, which helps straight line performance.

Yeah, Merc improved their PU over their winter to the tune of a few tenths, which is impressive. But they haven’t once this year exhibited the bizarre behavior that Ferrari did in places like Singapore last year when they’d gain 7 tenths on a straight with other-worldly acceleration at the final stretch of the straight there.

If you’re Merc, why do you need to turn the PU up anymore in the race when you’re ahead of your competitor by 24s while cruising turned down already? Just to beat up the tires and put more strain on the engine?

Their gains over the winter came from Formula E development, something they and Renault are involved in. Which isn't to say that it's unfair, but neither is Honda Sakura working on their engine when Europe was on lockdown.

Vandoorne, their Formula E driver has said it's really thanks to the team having continuity for the last 15 years, starting from the 2005 team, which was Brawn GP and Honda. Vandoorne knows what Mercedes is doing to have the competitive advantage and it involves being the lead car, hence it's so important to get pole. When a Mercedes is in dirty air it cannot overtake a Max Verstappen as shown in Spain. All chasing cars suffer a handicap simply being in the train. You don't even hear of catching a tow or slipstream in F1 these days. That's how bad dirty air is and why the rules are changing.

[PlatinumZealot]

They rushed forward a second specification, which ended up only being half what they wanted to bring, which was the reliability side anyway, no announced performance gain.
It wouldn't matter anyway as they didn't introduce it mid-season as a "reliability upgrade", it was rushed to make the first race of the season. So it's not suspect at all.

If anything, the fact Mercedes burned through their first MGU-K on all six cars smells a little odd to me (and no they are not in the pool for any of them, they are all expired).

I found it suspicious when Honda made a comment after winter testing, that the Mercedes MGUK was particularly "robust." Very unusual of them to be specific like that about an opponent's engine. What robust is meant there is anyone's guess. We didn't hear Helmut Marko bleating about it, so likely Honda is still monitoring it, trying to understand what is exactly happening. Then again, maybe they silently protested it, and now we hear of the qualifying mode ban and the "ERS gate" that is supposedly coming soon.

[GhostF1]

I think you're misreading me or adding a couple extra bits to make my post sound like something else. I'm not discounting Honda's huge progress over the last couple of years, it's been hugely impressive, but I haven't seen a thing that would make me suspect about it, they've been hugely transparent since 2015, and it's a joy to watch their progress rather publicly. As for reliability and performance being linked. Most definitely! But the question was "didn't Honda bring a reliability upgrade in the season?" As to which I replied, they didn't, they brought forward a new specification to begin the season, there is nothing wrong with that. This is addressing the implication by the FIA that in season reliability upgrade requests bring performance gain.
And I didn't say there are manufacturers that haven't exploited a "grey area", I believe it's highly likely all of them have (to be frank, I have suspicions Honda's cylinder cutting off throttle and exhaust crackles in some quali modes are exactly one of those grey areas). But exploiting a grey area is not cheating... Bypassing a sensor to use more fuel or bypassing monitored circuitry to add more power to the MGU-K is. That's a blatant run around of a known technical restriction.

Evidence of Mercedes quali jump!? They are significantly faster than Red Bull Honda in quali, only to come back to more typical gaps in race. The gap falls from 1s to 0.3. Now we know Honda has a pretty handy race mode and it's a safe bet they are second best in that respect and that is probably helping them but Merc turn it down for the race substantially, so do Renault.

I'm also not implying they're cheating. We don't actually know what Ferrari were doing and there has been zero consequence/punishment, we can only assume the FIA has told them to stop doing what they're doing, which is likely a grey area exploit, and to protect Ferrari's I.P they have not disclosed what it was. So if Mercedes have a pretty good hunch that they knew what Fez were doing, they obviously see no harm in also doing it as the FIA have not made a single public clarification due to Ferrari's request.

So yes what I am implying is, a team will take advantage of that fact and also utilise whatever grey area exploit it is until they are told, or a directive comes out.. publicly, that shuts that area down for good.

Single lap pace is not down solely to PU performance. Mercedes, as of Barcelona, are currently faster than Red Bull in every type of corner.

The W11 is a big jump up from the W10 in large part because it’s got even more downforce, but also because it’s substantially more efficient than its predecessor, which helps straight line performance.

Yeah, Merc improved their PU over their winter to the tune of a few tenths, which is impressive. But they haven’t once this year exhibited the bizarre behavior that Ferrari did in places like Singapore last year when they’d gain 7 tenths on a straight with other-worldly acceleration at the final stretch of the straight there.

If you’re Merc, why do you need to turn the PU up anymore in the race when you’re ahead of your competitor by 24s while cruising turned down already? Just to beat up the tires and put more strain on the engine?

I didn't say it was all down to engine either.. you're adding that bit in.

However the difference in speed between quali and race is an important factor you can't just pass off.. Yes why bother running it higher when they don't need to is very valid. But if that was the case, then why do they bother risking the PU so much in qualifying?

Not suggesting it's all engine, but I am suggesting the PU in qualifying is a big part of it. Hence why Honda have publicly made comment they are surprised at specifically Mercedes engine gains.

Mid race Max is faster or at pace with Valtteri. So to me, it points more to the engine in qualifying rather than much else. Not discounting the W11's chassis performance. The car is a great step forward obviously. But Honda are taking notice and are specifically calling out the Merc PU being outstanding. They have the data, so I tend to agree the engine is particularly impressive in qualifying. See Williams and Racing Point both having unreal qualifying pace that tends to drop off during the race, it's points to PU gains.

[etusch]

I didn't say it was all down to engine either.. you're adding that bit in.

However the difference in speed between quali and race is an important factor you can't just pass off.. Yes why bother running it higher when they don't need to is very valid. But if that was the case, then why do they bother risking the PU so much in qualifying?

Not suggesting it's all engine, but I am suggesting the PU in qualifying is a big part of it. Hence why Honda have publicly made comment they are surprised at specifically Mercedes engine gains.

Mid race Max is faster or at pace with Valtteri. So to me, it points more to the engine in qualifying rather than much else. Not discounting the W11's chassis performance. The car is a great step forward obviously. But Honda are taking notice and are specifically calling out the Merc PU being outstanding. They have the data, so I tend to agree the engine is particularly impressive in qualifying. See Williams and Racing Point both having unreal qualifying pace that tends to drop off during the race, it's points to PU gains.

Your comment, not another thing, remembered me last year's cars Q performance which are using Ferrari Pu

[GhostF1]

I didn't say it was all down to engine either.. you're adding that bit in.

However the difference in speed between quali and race is an important factor you can't just pass off.. Yes why bother running it higher when they don't need to is very valid. But if that was the case, then why do they bother risking the PU so much in qualifying?

Not suggesting it's all engine, but I am suggesting the PU in qualifying is a big part of it. Hence why Honda have publicly made comment they are surprised at specifically Mercedes engine gains.

Mid race Max is faster or at pace with Valtteri. So to me, it points more to the engine in qualifying rather than much else. Not discounting the W11's chassis performance. The car is a great step forward obviously. But Honda are taking notice and are specifically calling out the Merc PU being outstanding. They have the data, so I tend to agree the engine is particularly impressive in qualifying. See Williams and Racing Point both having unreal qualifying pace that tends to drop off during the race, it's points to PU gains.

Your comment, not another thing, remembered me last year's cars Q performance which are using Ferrari Pu

For sure! All Ferrari teams had a step forward in one lap pace that was significantly above what they did during the race (even race were strong though), it's the same scenario with Mercedes teams this year.
We can get as conspiratorial as we want, this is a discussion platform, so why not..

Last year Andy Cowell said at their current level, their 2019 PU was pushing the boundaries and the gains are much smaller now with each step and each further push becomes riskier (this was evident last year with a lot of failures across Williams and Racing Point), so it takes an extraordinary amount of work to find performance now. This year, we see Mercedes have made arguably one of their biggest gain in the last 2- 3 years.

It's rather interesting isn't it, maybe Cowell leaving has something to do with him disagreeing with Mercedes pushing the "grey are" Ferrari was using?? (see picture below, the 2020 Merc pours smoke out the breather like the 2019 Fez did.. note the 2020 Fez does not have this behaviour anymore).

All we know is, the FIA have been triggered by something to act. So one of the manufacturers is more than likely up to something. Also remember, this sentence in the announcement of the FIA-Ferrari settlement:

“The FIA and Scuderia Ferrari have agreed to a number of technical commitments that will improve the monitoring of all Formula 1 power units for forthcoming championship seasons as well as assist the FIA in other regulatory duties in Formula 1 and in its research activities on carbon emissions and sustainable fuels.”

So we know Ferrari are "assisting" the FIA govern the technical directives and help them monitor potential exploits better". Take from that what you will.

[zibby43]

I didn't say it was all down to engine either.. you're adding that bit in.

However the difference in speed between quali and race is an important factor you can't just pass off.. Yes why bother running it higher when they don't need to is very valid. But if that was the case, then why do they bother risking the PU so much in qualifying?

Not suggesting it's all engine, but I am suggesting the PU in qualifying is a big part of it. Hence why Honda have publicly made comment they are surprised at specifically Mercedes engine gains.

Mid race Max is faster or at pace with Valtteri. So to me, it points more to the engine in qualifying rather than much else. Not discounting the W11's chassis performance. The car is a great step forward obviously. But Honda are taking notice and are specifically calling out the Merc PU being outstanding. They have the data, so I tend to agree the engine is particularly impressive in qualifying. See Williams and Racing Point both having unreal qualifying pace that tends to drop off during the race, it's points to PU gains.

Your comment, not another thing, remembered me last year's cars Q performance which are using Ferrari Pu

For sure! All Ferrari teams had a step forward in one lap pace that was significantly above what they did during the race (even race were strong though), it's the same scenario with Mercedes teams this year.
We can get as conspiratorial as we want, this is a discussion platform, so why not..

Last year Andy Cowell said at their current level, their 2019 PU was pushing the boundaries and the gains are much smaller now with each step and each further push becomes riskier (this was evident last year with a lot of failures across Williams and Racing Point), so it takes an extraordinary amount of work to find performance now. This year, we see Mercedes have made arguably one of their biggest gain in the last 2- 3 years.

It's rather interesting isn't it, maybe Cowell leaving has something to do with him disagreeing with Mercedes pushing the "grey are" Ferrari was using?? (see picture below, the 2020 Merc pours smoke out the breather like the 2019 Fez did.. note the 2020 Fez does not have this behaviour anymore).

All we know is, the FIA have been triggered by something to act. So one of the manufacturers is more than likely up to something. Also remember, this sentence in the announcement of the FIA-Ferrari settlement:

“The FIA and Scuderia Ferrari have agreed to a number of technical commitments that will improve the monitoring of all Formula 1 power units for forthcoming championship seasons as well as assist the FIA in other regulatory duties in Formula 1 and in its research activities on carbon emissions and sustainable fuels.”

So we know Ferrari are "assisting" the FIA govern the technical directives and help them monitor potential exploits better". Take from that what you will.

https://ibb.co/7JZ7ybk

It was the 2018 Ferrari that smoked profusely through the crankcase breather. But that’s what it’s there for.

Mercedes’ straightline performance pales in comparison to what Ferrari was doing last year. Not even comparable.

Cowell is leaving because he wants to do things outside F1.

It’s funny, you kept telling me I’m adding things to what you’re saying, but I wasn’t. At least this time you’re more clear in announcing your conspiracy (your words, not mine) theories, which imply Merc is cheating.

There’s no 2 ways about it. That’s what you have been insinuating and continue to insinuate.

The FIA have been triggered to act because Ferrari are getting routinely beat by midfield and customer teams. I say let them reap what they sowed, but the FIA/FOM will never let that happen in a year where they’ve lost nearly $100m and need as many eyeballs on TV rooting for Ferrari.

[mem]

The FIA have been triggered to act because Ferrari are getting routinely beat by midfield and customer teams. I say let them reap what they sowed, but the FIA/FOM will never let that happen in a year where they’ve lost nearly $100m and need as many eyeballs on TV rooting for Ferrari.

you do repeat your self alot about how great mercs are ,how they are the most efficiency among all etc etc
can you explain if the FIA only act now because Ferrari are getting routinely beat by midfield ,why they hampered Ferrari in the first place ? couldn't they tell Ferrari hey detune your PU by 20 hp and hushhh don't tell any one
can you explain why FIA didn't take away points from Racing point(more than 15) or dsq them from races ?!!
can you explain how mercs can qualify 1.1s ahead of RBR Honda although few months ago they were qualifying with a different of 1 to 2 tenths.
isn't it clear as sun shine the abnormality of the Mercedes power unit behavior ?, if you see Mercedes qualifying in SPA
with only 1 or 2 tenths ahead of RBR Honda and Hamilton can no longer cruise away in races (due to the FIA current investigation) will you admit the wrong doing of Mercedes or you will still defend them blindly...