[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[dans79]

So I tend to believe what they and Mr. Asaki and Yamamoto say especially when it's coming directly from their mouths on recorded video instead of journalists people here are quick to discredit.

a lot of journalists get the stick, because many of them seem to have forgotten the concept of a direct quote.

[tangodjango]

No. It means on any given Sunday, you can screw it up or win the jackpot.
Yamamoto does say Mercedes is the benchmark with regard to the total operation, from strategists, fuel/energy usage, management of tires and that RB-Honda needs to be right at the heels for when they do make a mistake/miscalculation/ or something goes their way that they need to capitalize on it.
How is the PU relevant? It propels the car forward.
But as you mentioned yourself, Mercedes couldn't match RedBull Honda's performance on the same tyres in Silverstone2 and that it was because of the tyres. That is the same as what Max and Marko said during and after the Barcelona race. So I tend to believe what they and Mr. Asaki and Yamamoto say especially when it's coming directly from their mouths on recorded video instead of journalists people here are quick to discredit.

I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense. My point was that Silverstone 2 was an example where everything went spectacularly wrong for the Merc's because of tire management and wrong setup hence Red Bull had the best race pace and won deservedly on merit. In Barcelona I don't think Red Bull had comparitively anywhere near the same amount of issues and were off the pace, my point being even if RBR did not have any setup issues in Barcelona I doubt they would be a threat to Hamilton while the reverse can't be said for Silverstone 2 given the fact Mercedes were well ahead in the first race.

You are entitled to your own opinion and doubts and it doesn't have to make sense to you. Everything went spectacularly wrong in Silvertone1 for MB but they were LUCKY. Silverstone2 they should have learned their lesson and took learnings from the first race, but RedBull did a BETTER job at applying their learnings AND adjusting for the conditions. Do you know who's fault it is that "everything went spectacularly wrong" for Mercedes? Not Pirellis, as they gave ALL TEAMS THE SAME TIRES AND SAME PRESSURE requirements. Pirelli did not intentionally use soft tyres to HURT Mercedes or slow them down. Mercedes simply just wasn't able to cope with those tyres in those conditions. Simple as that.

You are simply not answering my point, additionally typing in Caps doesn't make your statement more valid. Anyway let's agree to disagree and hope Spa is a good race.

[ispano6]

So I tend to believe what they and Mr. Asaki and Yamamoto say especially when it's coming directly from their mouths on recorded video instead of journalists people here are quick to discredit.

a lot of journalists get the stick, because many of them seem to have forgotten the concept of a direct quote.

It goes both ways. Some journalists honor their confidentiality agreement with their "anonymous" sources, some cite here-say or rumors in the paddock. People here are quick to demand "show me the article, or you have a quote for proof of source". Journalists are coy by saying "rumor is, word in the paddock, etc". Truth is, people talk and leak stuff all the time within their circles and some journalists decide to run with it, along with their click bait titles. All rumors have a genesis, whether it is truth or a fib or misdirection.

I put the video right there for people to hear it from their mouths and its up to the listener to get the truth out of it instead of quoting badly translated articles of he-said-she-said. No ambiguity, no here-say, no rumors. Just matter of fact. So again, you can take in everything Asaki and Yamamoto have to say about their stance on the matters of performance, qualifying ban and how they think it will affect F1, tyre performance etc and you don't have to take it with a grain of salt.

[Hammerfist]

So Bottas wasn't going maximum speed in order to catch Verstappen, who was hampered by a bad set up that didn't let them maximize their tyres? Max wasn't pushing the entire time either, his focus was his own race and maintaining the gap which he managed to. Horner and Yamamoto both said Silverstone 2 was won on merit and that they had a quiet confidence on Friday of that weekend that they had a set up they can win with. They had planned to qualify on hards and the only time they were nervous was when Max made it to Q3 on hards in P9. Once they knew they were in, there was a huge sigh of relief and the rest of the weekend went according to plan. That race was won on strategy and merit where Red Bull prepared their car perfectly for the conditions.

Redbull doesn't win silverstone 2 if Mercedes had mirrored their strategy. Max might have been able to split the Mercs through an undercut, but I don't see him passing a Merc on track on equal age tires, even considering the level Merc was struggling in that race.

[Hammerfist]

All very well and good but isn't that just reinforcing my base premise? Mercedes got setup wrong and overheated their tires in Silverstone 2 and so didn't have the expected pace while in Barcelona it was Red Bull's turn to get it wrong.
Also how is the PU relevant. Mercedes have been running the same PU since Austria.

No. It means on any given Sunday, you can screw it up or win the jackpot.
Yamamoto does say Mercedes is the benchmark with regard to the total operation, from strategists, fuel/energy usage, management of tires and that RB-Honda needs to be right at the heels for when they do make a mistake/miscalculation/ or something goes their way that they need to capitalize on it.
How is the PU relevant? It propels the car forward.
But as you mentioned yourself, Mercedes couldn't match RedBull Honda's performance on the same tyres in Silverstone2 and that it was because of the tyres. That is the same as what Max and Marko said during and after the Barcelona race. So I tend to believe what they and Mr. Asaki and Yamamoto say especially when it's coming directly from their mouths on recorded video instead of journalists people here are quick to discredit.

Yamamoto is not completely correct. Merc has a weakness on the strategy side. It's obvious. They are so focused on giving their drivers an equal shot at the win that they often forget about what it takes to beat the opponent. They almost gave away the first race of the season, and with their pace advantage, they should have tried to make q3 on the hard tire In Silverstone 2. If they had done so I really think we are looking at an undefeated season so far.

[ispano6]

All very well and good but isn't that just reinforcing my base premise? Mercedes got setup wrong and overheated their tires in Silverstone 2 and so didn't have the expected pace while in Barcelona it was Red Bull's turn to get it wrong.
Also how is the PU relevant. Mercedes have been running the same PU since Austria.

No. It means on any given Sunday, you can screw it up or win the jackpot.
Yamamoto does say Mercedes is the benchmark with regard to the total operation, from strategists, fuel/energy usage, management of tires and that RB-Honda needs to be right at the heels for when they do make a mistake/miscalculation/ or something goes their way that they need to capitalize on it.
How is the PU relevant? It propels the car forward.
But as you mentioned yourself, Mercedes couldn't match RedBull Honda's performance on the same tyres in Silverstone2 and that it was because of the tyres. That is the same as what Max and Marko said during and after the Barcelona race. So I tend to believe what they and Mr. Asaki and Yamamoto say especially when it's coming directly from their mouths on recorded video instead of journalists people here are quick to discredit.

Yamamoto is not completely correct. Merc has a weakness on the strategy side. It's obvious. They are so focused on giving their drivers an equal shot at the win that they often forget about what it takes to beat the opponent. They almost gave away the first race of the season, and with their pace advantage, they should have tried to make q3 on the hard tire In Silverstone 2. If they had done so I really think we are looking at an undefeated season so far.

You're right, overconfidence can have that effect on people.
Albon had a very good chance of winning the first race, he might not have suffered reliability issues if Hamilton hadn't ran into him. Max could have won Silverstone1 if he didn't pit and if his tires held up during that last lap. If they had done so then we are looking at a season where Redbull has 3 wins to Mercedes 4 so far.

[lio007]

Interview with Helmut Marko, mainly on Alex:

https://www.formel1.de/news/news/2020-0 ... ten-zahlen

Autotranslate:

The numbers speak a clear language: 0:6 in qualifying and 0:5 in the race duel, 40:95 after points, on average half a second gap to a fast lap - Alexander Albon really doesn't look good in the Red Bull duel against Max Verstappen so far. Also the average qualifying (P9:P4) and race position (P7:P2) does not flatter Albon.
Nevertheless, everything indicates that, unlike Daniil Kwjat or Pierre Gasly before him, he will not be thrown out during the current season. Helmut Marko explains in an interview with 'Motorsport-Total.com': "Albon is beaten below value in public".
"In Barcelona, we went too far from the set-up in our attempt to give him a more stable rear end. No matter which tire set he had on, hard, medium or soft, after eight laps we had temperatures far from good and bad. So he just slipped around. His qualifying was better."
"And what is completely overlooked: In both Silverstone races he was the fastest man in the second stint - faster than Verstappen. He also proved at the Red Bull Ring: When he gets into his rhythm, he's absolutely fast," explains the Red Bull motorsport consultant.
The major difference to Gasly's situation a year ago is not primarily the Thai passport (51 percent of the Red Bull Group is in Thai hands), but the fact that there is always potential shining through at Albon. But the 24-year-old has not yet been able to constantly tap this potential.
The lap statistics confirm Markos statements: In both Silverstone races Albon was the fastest man in the field at times. But at that point, the race was already over for him. Albon usually loses the race on Saturday in qualifying and in the first stint. Towards the end of the race he is sometimes really fast.
Marko does not believe that he is overburdened and would have needed the two to three years at AlphaTauri that Franz Tost recommends for the Red Bull Juniors: "Nor did he have time to stall. Perhaps Franz Tost's opinion is a bit too conservative. Those who can't stand it would probably not have made it to an absolute top career anyway. But such drivers are not suitable for Red Bull Racing anyway".
The idea of bringing Sebastian Vettel back into the Red Bull family and letting the two big Vs (Vettel and Verstappen) compete against each other in a superstar duel at the Grand Prix on the Red Bull Ring in 2021, which is being broadcast for the first time by the Red Bull channel ServusTV, is not something Marko can win over.
Vettel was apparently informed before the second Austrian Grand Prix in July that Red Bull could not offer him a cockpit. Accordingly, Marko cannot "follow Vettel's alternative. We have celebrated great successes with Vettel. But at the moment we are well positioned at Red Bull Racing," he clarifies. "And we have the contracts. Just because Vettel no longer has a contract, we can't just throw everything out.
Bringing Vettel back from Ferrari and preferring him to a Red Bull Junior would be a break with the previous Red Bull philosophy. Verstappen and Gasly are probably set because of their sporting achievements. With the Japanese Yuki Tsunoda, a Formula 2 talent is also on the starting blocks who could replace Daniil Kwjat at AlphaTauri in 2021. Honda would like that.

"So far, we have stuck to our principle," says Marko. "For example, we didn't take an Alonso when it would have been possible. Instead, we have always drawn on our juniors and gone our own way. And Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo won the Grand Prix. So it is a successful path. With Verstappen, we have a truly exceptional talent.

"It has been written that there will be no more new juniors," the 77-year-old is annoyed and adds: "We have Yuki Tsunoda, who is doing great in his first year in Formula 2. He had two technical defects. Without them he would have as many points as Schwarzman.
"We have Lawson in Formula 3, who even retired three times with a technical defect and is still in third place. We have good people there who will follow. Why should we suddenly deviate from our philosophy just because somewhere a good man doesn't have a cockpit?
Maybe because even Verstappen is said to have noticed as early as 2019 that an experienced man in the second car could make a greater contribution to the further development of the team and the fine-tuning of set-ups and strategies? Marko puts it into perspective: "That wasn't Verstappen's wish, but rather our clear guideline that we have to see results.

"Albon is very good with his technical statements. His performance in the races is very good, and especially in fast corners he is on the level of Verstappen. He then loses two tenths again in a corner. But that's not an issue for us," says the Austrian and expresses his confidence in Albon until the end of the season: "We stick to it."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[lio007]

Another VERY INTERESTING bit from formel1.de's Liveticker regarding the new concorde agreement:

Why flexibility is so important to Red Bull
The new Concorde Agreement has been signed. All ten Formula 1 teams have signed the new agreement until 2025. Helmut Marko told us what was particularly important for Red Bull in the new agreement. "One point is that it is possible to terminate annually. It is not a fixed contract as it has been in the past," said Marko. In other words: theoretically, Red Bull could theoretically quit at the end of the 2021 season.

But why is this flexibility so important? "Because our Honda contract currently ends in 2021," explains Marko. Because the Concorde Agreement only applies to the teams, not to the engine manufacturers. And Honda has initially only committed itself to Formula 1 until 2021. In addition, it was important "that the financial allocation is different," says Marko. "That is decisive. That you can get out after twelve months in each case.

"That some things can be decided by an overwhelming majority and no longer by unanimity," he explains. "For example, the reversal of the starting grid in Austria, which was prevented by Mercedes," he gives an example. He is satisfied with the new distribution of money. "What we get less at Red Bull, we get more at AlphaTauri, for example. That balances each other out de facto," he explains.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[Juzh]

Interview with Helmut Marko, manly on Alex:

https://www.formel1.de/news/news/2020-0 ... ten-zahlen

Autotranslate:

"And what is completely overlooked: In both Silverstone races he was the fastest man in the second stint - faster than Verstappen.

Ok lets not kid ourselves. Albon was never faster than Verstappen lol. Verstappen was cruising around, Albon was going flat out. I've seen both onboards and it was very obvious.

[Wynters]

It's a team sport. Please drivers will drive to the extent of their abilities all race. You cannot afford mistakes. Are you new to f1?

No. You can tell because I don't think drivers/teams are so stupid as to be driving flat out all the time.

You have a limited quantity of fuel, you cannot use the most aggressive engine modes for even 1/4th of the race. Energy must be allocated efficiently. If a team gains in the pit stops that counts. Everything counts towards total race time.

Why are you moving the goal posts?

One nice step from Red Bull is all they need, they've chipped away a tenth and a half since the start of the season.

In winter testing they were ~.5 off the pace. In the race Verstappen was .366 off the pace.

'Chipping away' = 'faster pitstops'? Where were the pitstops in winter testing to allow you to draw the comparison you drew?

If Mercedes pulls away at a second a lap but then Hamilton gets stuck in the pits for over a minute due to a faulty wheel nut, your conclusion would be that Red Bull had finally chipped away all the difference in pace. Would you expect Red Bull to retain that advantage in the next race? If not, what does that mean for your decision to include pitstop times in your 'Verstappen's pace' modelling?

Why aren't you answering any of the many other questions asked of you? Why do you continue to rely on insults rather than evidence to counter even the most basic suggested correction?

Why do you think that doing significantly worse in all relevant metrics = 'manhandling'?

[godlameroso]

Some people are too easily offended, and begin making things up to try to lessen the load on their ego.

I don't answer hypothetical questions with hypothetical answers. I do rely on facts and evidence, you seem to rely on twisting figures to suit your myopic point of view.

When Bottas raced Verstappen 1 vs 1, Verstappen beat him 9 out of 13 times since 2017. To me that's manhandling someone especially if they have a clearly superior car. Unless magically the RB is the faster car, but that can't be right unless certain posters have been contradicting themselves.

[Wynters]

***deleted***

[Sieper]

please guys, may I ask to just stop. It is also not really on topic (not totally off topic either) but just not nice to have to read.

[McMika98]

The ban on engine modes should give a better picture of driver quality and intelligence. It looks like a move lobbied by Ferrari who have a solid car just lacking quali grunt. Expect them to challenge Redbull in coming races.

[Sieper]

No.

Especially not in the race mcmika, they have been nowhere in race. They might be closer in qualy but that too, who knows who will loose more. Ferrari was closer in qualy than in race.