Ferrari SF1000

[Big Tea]

What I can not work out is that everyone is saying this is a dog of a car ( which it is) but as bad as it was today the same car finished 7th in Spain, 6th in Hungry, 4th and 3 rd in Silverstone and 2nd in Austria.

So a car good enough to finish second in Austria, and 3 and 4 in GB is suddenly so poor it finishes 13th and 14th?

The cars in front have not made giant leaps, especially the ones with Ferrari engines.

Something smells wrong

It's not just the engine. It's also uninspired drivers, unsupported driver, bad and weird strategy calls, no leadership in race prep and bad development of the car itself (as one of the few teams, they still race a 2017-sh square style nose).

it feels a bit like a downward spiral, when everything feels like it's in reverse

Yeh, strategy seems non existent, or at least as if everyone takes a turn if they know what they are doing or not including the tea lady.

We can tell just by the tone of the drivers voice they have no confidence in what they are told, or even worse not told. Contrast this to when Rob Smedly was there. Even when he had to give bad orders to a driver it was concise and left the driver in no doubt that this was the plan, and yes we have a plan.

I really don't know why the drivers are being confused and I can see how they think Ferrari have no idea, what do they expect them to do? Either discuss it with the driver as adults, or tell them what is to do, not dither until it is too late.

The drivers will try their best to hit the plan, as long as they know what the plan is. If other areas of the team are run the same... well, I give up.

[Jolle]

What I can not work out is that everyone is saying this is a dog of a car ( which it is) but as bad as it was today the same car finished 7th in Spain, 6th in Hungry, 4th and 3 rd in Silverstone and 2nd in Austria.

So a car good enough to finish second in Austria, and 3 and 4 in GB is suddenly so poor it finishes 13th and 14th?

The cars in front have not made giant leaps, especially the ones with Ferrari engines.

Something smells wrong

It's not just the engine. It's also uninspired drivers, unsupported driver, bad and weird strategy calls, no leadership in race prep and bad development of the car itself (as one of the few teams, they still race a 2017-sh square style nose).

it feels a bit like a downward spiral, when everything feels like it's in reverse

Yeh, strategy seems non existent, or at least as if everyone takes a turn if they know what they are doing or not including the tea lady.

We can tell just by the tone of the drivers voice they have no confidence in what they are told, or even worse not told. Contrast this to when Rob Smedly was there. Even when he had to give bad orders to a driver it was concise and left the driver in no doubt that this was the plan, and yes we have a plan.

I really don't know why the drivers are being confused and I can see how they think Ferrari have no idea, what do they expect them to do? Either discuss it with the driver as adults, or tell them what is to do, not dither until it is too late.

The drivers will try their best to hit the plan, as long as they know what the plan is. If other areas of the team are run the same... well, I give up.

I think this discussion should be in the team thread but... we’re here anyway. This didn’t start just this season. Last year already there was lots of friction and inaction on the team side. Somehow there is nobody that will sit everyone around a table and just... well... manage it. They don’t need someone like Smedley, they need someone that will say: we need someone like Smedley. Now they just have a couple of people who sit back and say: well, we’ll see. Very reminiscent of McLaren a few years ago.

[Big Tea]

It's not just the engine. It's also uninspired drivers, unsupported driver, bad and weird strategy calls, no leadership in race prep and bad development of the car itself (as one of the few teams, they still race a 2017-sh square style nose).

it feels a bit like a downward spiral, when everything feels like it's in reverse

Yeh, strategy seems non existent, or at least as if everyone takes a turn if they know what they are doing or not including the tea lady.

We can tell just by the tone of the drivers voice they have no confidence in what they are told, or even worse not told. Contrast this to when Rob Smedly was there. Even when he had to give bad orders to a driver it was concise and left the driver in no doubt that this was the plan, and yes we have a plan.

I really don't know why the drivers are being confused and I can see how they think Ferrari have no idea, what do they expect them to do? Either discuss it with the driver as adults, or tell them what is to do, not dither until it is too late.

The drivers will try their best to hit the plan, as long as they know what the plan is. If other areas of the team are run the same... well, I give up.

I think this discussion should be in the team thread but... we’re here anyway. This didn’t start just this season. Last year already there was lots of friction and inaction on the team side. Somehow there is nobody that will sit everyone around a table and just... well... manage it. They don’t need someone like Smedley, they need someone that will say: we need someone like Smedley. Now they just have a couple of people who sit back and say: well, we’ll see. Very reminiscent of McLaren a few years ago.

This. When I say jump, you ask how high.
But it has to be someone who knows what to say and when to say it

[bruno958]

Oh no!!!! Binotto says more upgrades are planned for Monza. I say they loose another second with the new upgrades. This team has not clue. Time for a complete reset.

[selvam_e2002]

Oh no!!!! Binotto says more upgrades are planned for Monza. I say they loose another second with the new upgrades. This team has not clue. Time for a complete reset.

100% Agree. No direction, no future plan, trying everything what they think. very disappointed with them.

For all this should be owned by Binotto. I mentioned in team thread as well. Instead of developing engine and Pu he used short cut which is causing an issue now. Seems 3 year behind the development very difficult period for them to over come.

No team management experience. No technical experience even though 25 years with Ferrari. seems overrated.

[LM10]

Some of you guys are overreacting and forgetting that the probably biggest rule changes F1 has ever seen will come in 2022. The only component of the current regs which will be the same by then will be the PU. No matter how ridiculously slow the SF1000 is now, their main goal should be to develop the PU and I hope they're doing that while I'm writing now and do it day in day out.
Come 2022 no one will lose a word about how Ferrari's 2019 or 2020 concepts were bad. If I was Ferrari, I would barely touch the aero/chassis of the SF1000 and would only do it for testing purposes, if it's useful in any way for 2022. Besides that, I would focus on the PU and other things which should be improved as well such as correlation, strategies etc.

[wowgr8]

Some of you guys are overreacting and forgetting that the probably biggest rule changes F1 has ever seen will come in 2022. The only component of the current regs which will be the same by then will be the PU. No matter how ridiculously slow the SF1000 is now, their main goal should be to develop the PU and I hope they're doing that while I'm writing now and do it day in day out.
Come 2022 no one will lose a word about how Ferrari's 2019 or 2020 concepts were bad. If I was Ferrari, I would barely touch the aero/chassis of the SF1000 and would only do it for testing purposes, if it's useful in any way for 2022. Besides that, I would focus on the PU and other things which should be improved as well such as correlation, strategies etc.

Aren't there a load of PU parts being frozen at the start of 21? Or do they get to bring in another new spec unit in 2022?

[basti313]

Some of you guys are overreacting and forgetting that the probably biggest rule changes F1 has ever seen will come in 2022. The only component of the current regs which will be the same by then will be the PU. No matter how ridiculously slow the SF1000 is now, their main goal should be to develop the PU and I hope they're doing that while I'm writing now and do it day in day out.
Come 2022 no one will lose a word about how Ferrari's 2019 or 2020 concepts were bad. If I was Ferrari, I would barely touch the aero/chassis of the SF1000 and would only do it for testing purposes, if it's useful in any way for 2022. Besides that, I would focus on the PU and other things which should be improved as well such as correlation, strategies etc.

Well, I agree from the point of relevance, but I think this unfortunately not realistic:
- PUs are homologated. Only reliability upgrades.
- You can not shift people from aero department simply to PU development
- Aero issues today are usually correlation issues. And this will affect also the 2022 car if they can not get it right on this car.
- Chassis will be in many points the same. They did not get the tires working....so this would also affect the 2022 car.

Unfortunately in reality this is stronger correlated than one might want it. Any PU advantage will also be there in 2022 and who can not get the aero and chassis into shape today needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat for 22...

[LM10]

Some of you guys are overreacting and forgetting that the probably biggest rule changes F1 has ever seen will come in 2022. The only component of the current regs which will be the same by then will be the PU. No matter how ridiculously slow the SF1000 is now, their main goal should be to develop the PU and I hope they're doing that while I'm writing now and do it day in day out.
Come 2022 no one will lose a word about how Ferrari's 2019 or 2020 concepts were bad. If I was Ferrari, I would barely touch the aero/chassis of the SF1000 and would only do it for testing purposes, if it's useful in any way for 2022. Besides that, I would focus on the PU and other things which should be improved as well such as correlation, strategies etc.

Well, I agree from the point of relevance, but I think this unfortunately not realistic:
- PUs are homologated. Only reliability upgrades.
- You can not shift people from aero department simply to PU development
- Aero issues today are usually correlation issues. And this will affect also the 2022 car if they can not get it right on this car.
- Chassis will be in many points the same. They did not get the tires working....so this would also affect the 2022 car.

Unfortunately in reality this is stronger correlated than one might want it. Any PU advantage will also be there in 2022 and who can not get the aero and chassis into shape today needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat for 22...

PUs are homologated for this season, but you're allowed to work on the 2021 PU. You can not shift people from aero department, but you can shift financial resources to PU development.
As for the correlation issues, that's what I meant when talking about focusing on other problems. Ferrari will use their brand new simulator which is hoped to solve the correlation issues for the 2022 car.

What do you mean, chassis will be the same in many points? Anyway, Ferrari's tyre management could be worse. It actually had the best tyre wear in Spain.

[LM10]

Some of you guys are overreacting and forgetting that the probably biggest rule changes F1 has ever seen will come in 2022. The only component of the current regs which will be the same by then will be the PU. No matter how ridiculously slow the SF1000 is now, their main goal should be to develop the PU and I hope they're doing that while I'm writing now and do it day in day out.
Come 2022 no one will lose a word about how Ferrari's 2019 or 2020 concepts were bad. If I was Ferrari, I would barely touch the aero/chassis of the SF1000 and would only do it for testing purposes, if it's useful in any way for 2022. Besides that, I would focus on the PU and other things which should be improved as well such as correlation, strategies etc.

Aren't there a load of PU parts being frozen at the start of 21? Or do they get to bring in another new spec unit in 2022?

No parts will be frozen until 2023. Three PU components will have a stricter development frequency. Teams will need to choose wether they will bring an update for those parts in 2022 or 2023. But I forgot which parts.
All other parts can be upgraded once going into a new season. And also throughout the seasons upgrades will be allowed, but not to the same extent like before. For more details I would need to look it up again.

[MtthsMlw]

Oh no!!!! Binotto says more upgrades are planned for Monza. I say they loose another second with the new upgrades. This team has not clue. Time for a complete reset.

Upgrades in this case probably mean the low downforce package that was already tried in Spa.
Cut FW, no T-wing and basically no RW.
Maybe something else, who knows.

[Scorpaguy]

Oh no!!!! Binotto says more upgrades are planned for Monza. I say they loose another second with the new upgrades. This team has not clue. Time for a complete reset.

Upgrades in this case probably mean the low downforce package that was already tried in Spa.
Cut FW, no T-wing and basically no RW.
Maybe something else, who knows.

...helium in the tyres, flatulence producing foods for the pilots, newer spec car wax, etc. Last year as I was among the throngs calling for Bino's head (always have, still do think sacking Arri a poor choice), but then they pulled out the "mega-motor" thing and I had a change of heart. Now, after watching this team mal-perform at spa (across the board sans the drivers), I am not expecting much from Bino to improve this car; I hope I am wrong. Maybe weight savings due to the loss of sponser decals will help improve speed. Sorry, but this car looks positively 2017ish in a field of 2020 cars and one from the future.

[siskue2005]

Oh no!!!! Binotto says more upgrades are planned for Monza. I say they loose another second with the new upgrades. This team has not clue. Time for a complete reset.

Upgrades in this case probably mean the low downforce package that was already tried in Spa.
Cut FW, no T-wing and basically no RW.
Maybe something else, who knows.

...helium in the tyres, flatulence producing foods for the pilots, newer spec car wax, etc. Last year as I was among the throngs calling for Bino's head (always have, still do think sacking Arri a poor choice), but then they pulled out the "mega-motor" thing and I had a change of heart. Now, after watching this team mal-perform at spa (across the board sans the drivers), I am not expecting much from Bino to improve this car; I hope I am wrong. Maybe weight savings due to the loss of sponser decals will help improve speed. Sorry, but this car looks positively 2017ish in a field of 2020 cars and one from the future.

Just my arm chair aero view
They should work on the front of the car, it looks so 2014
All teams have gone for slim front nose (except for the ferrari teams)
That in itself would cure some of their front end issue and in turn will send more air to the rear and better rear down force.

[Alakshendra]

Some of you guys are overreacting and forgetting that the probably biggest rule changes F1 has ever seen will come in 2022. The only component of the current regs which will be the same by then will be the PU. No matter how ridiculously slow the SF1000 is now, their main goal should be to develop the PU and I hope they're doing that while I'm writing now and do it day in day out.
Come 2022 no one will lose a word about how Ferrari's 2019 or 2020 concepts were bad. If I was Ferrari, I would barely touch the aero/chassis of the SF1000 and would only do it for testing purposes, if it's useful in any way for 2022. Besides that, I would focus on the PU and other things which should be improved as well such as correlation, strategies etc.

I think most of the fans are waiting for 2022 especially in case of Ferrari, The major re org that came into picture for the team does gave some hopes but lots needs to be done. There was a rumor that Andy cowell have refused to join ferrari which seems a bad news since he is the best PU designer and i hope ferrari somehow bring him onboard being PU being a real big issue in the past.

One more thing is chasis and aero which have always given redbull the edge even though they lacked in power, i think by bringing the right people and focusing on specific areas the whole team can be turned around.

[Scorpaguy]

So, in 2019 the car had no downforce (yet a monster motor...sort of). I get that they wanted a car with more DF and designed such around the big mill. Well, 2020 arrives and the big mill has been trimmed and we are left with a high drag car. One would assume that such means high DF, but that is not the case here. The 1000 had a hard time warming tires at spa...so it seems that the high drag is not contributing to high DF?

Is DF really that difficult of a concept? Heck, back in the late 70's the cars were able to do the "fly on the ceiling bit" when at speed. I know the 2019 Haas had high drag/low DF issues, as well as a big motor/low top speed issues...but have other teams in recent memory been plagued by the design conundrums of the 1000? I recall teams having issues with too much DF and subsequent ravaging of tyres...and the reverse of low DF and unable to get the tyres up to temp. But having both issues at once seems a major engineering flaw/set of flaws that should not happen on a well funded build.