[ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

[diffuser]

was is the contratual situation for engine deal with Haas and williams ? I am pretty sure renault would be happy to settup a technical deal with another team, to maximise caped budget rules. Perhaps with williams ?

Don't think it makes sense for Williams. They already get a discount for Russel in the team till next year atleast, and we'll overall Merc is still better overall in power, efficiency and packaging. What incentive would be there for Williams to pay more and switch from the best engine? Also don't see Honda dropping out with Tsunoda odds on for the AT seat next year and Max with an unlikely but not improbable title tilt next year.

Renault would probably paid for a pilot seat (as theiy need something to develop their junior path). Second, renault tried to set up a deal (exchange of non listed parts) with mclaren, don't know exactly what is the status for 2021 in term of std aprts and listes parts, but imagine renault focus on PU and break system and mcl gearbox and suspension, both team exchanging their dvpt to the other team. Coud save I don't know, 30M€ each. Win / win deal.

The Merc/Russell deal is not incumbent on Williams having a Merc PU.

[diffuser]

was is the contratual situation for engine deal with Haas and williams ? I am pretty sure renault would be happy to settup a technical deal with another team, to maximise caped budget rules. Perhaps with williams ?

Don't think it makes sense for Williams. They already get a discount for Russel in the team till next year atleast, and we'll overall Merc is still better overall in power, efficiency and packaging. What incentive would be there for Williams to pay more and switch from the best engine? Also don't see Honda dropping out with Tsunoda odds on for the AT seat next year and Max with an unlikely but not improbable title tilt next year.

Renault would probably paid for a pilot seat (as theiy need something to develop their junior path). Second, renault tried to set up a deal (exchange of non listed parts) with mclaren, don't know exactly what is the status for 2021 in term of std aprts and listes parts, but imagine renault focus on PU and break system and mcl gearbox and suspension, both team exchanging their dvpt to the other team. Coud save I don't know, 30M€ each. Win / win deal.

They will not do that. If they had been willing to dropped the price, they would have kept McLaren.

[diffuser]

Good Race for Renault. Hope they can do even better in Monza.

I think this is the first time Alonso(in his life) chosen good decision to join Renault.

Ferrari - not up to the mark
Mclaren - We never know how they will do with Mercedes engine. Changing engine is a big task

No party mode and F1 going to remove 10% of down force from the car

Hence Renault will have good chance being in frequent podium next year and if all good then they can challenge WCC and WDC in 2022

I hope so but we'll see.

So tired of the Merc shiit, not sure why they bother showing the first 3 cars. All the interesting stuff is happening from forth through 15th place.
After the race, I don't watch the purchased positions(podium). I come back after to watch the interviews of the midfield.

[Neno]

Don't think it makes sense for Williams. They already get a discount for Russel in the team till next year atleast, and we'll overall Merc is still better overall in power, efficiency and packaging. What incentive would be there for Williams to pay more and switch from the best engine? Also don't see Honda dropping out with Tsunoda odds on for the AT seat next year and Max with an unlikely but not improbable title tilt next year.

Renault would probably paid for a pilot seat (as theiy need something to develop their junior path). Second, renault tried to set up a deal (exchange of non listed parts) with mclaren, don't know exactly what is the status for 2021 in term of std aprts and listes parts, but imagine renault focus on PU and break system and mcl gearbox and suspension, both team exchanging their dvpt to the other team. Coud save I don't know, 30M€ each. Win / win deal.

They will not do that. If they had been willing to dropped the price, they would have kept McLaren.

They wouldnt. Seidl wanted change of engine the moment he come on board of Mclaren which speaks many many things. Long before Renault proposed idea about partnership with Mclaren something was cooking with Mercedes in background. What I want to say him and Toto had deal under the table which likely got him team principal position in Mclaren in first place. Not mention Toto confirmed that Merc is selling their engines under the price and overall at loss to their customers.

For what reason we can only speculate, but they arent doing it out of good faith because Merc is such a good guy in F1. And we certainly dont think they are 2nd of Jesus Christ team.

[diffuser]

Renault would probably paid for a pilot seat (as theiy need something to develop their junior path). Second, renault tried to set up a deal (exchange of non listed parts) with mclaren, don't know exactly what is the status for 2021 in term of std aprts and listes parts, but imagine renault focus on PU and break system and mcl gearbox and suspension, both team exchanging their dvpt to the other team. Coud save I don't know, 30M€ each. Win / win deal.

They will not do that. If they had been willing to dropped the price, they would have kept McLaren.

They wouldnt. Seidl wanted change of engine the moment he come on board of Mclaren which speaks many many things. Long before Renault proposed idea about partnership with Mclaren something was cooking with Mercedes in background. What I want to say him and Toto had deal under the table which likely got him team principal position in Mclaren in first place. Not mention Toto confirmed that Merc is selling their engines under the price and overall at loss to their customers.

For what reason we can only speculate, but they arent doing it out of good faith because Merc is such a good guy in F1. And we certainly dont think they are 2nd of Jesus Christ team.

I know brown said Seidl was key but what else is he gonna say? Seidel started May 1st how much could behave known.

Anyways, I'd be lieing if I said I knew why. I doubt Seidl had it in him to leave just because. Think they started to look when the price was so high. That's usually when people start to look around.

I also think Renault supplying only themselves with Merc supplying half the teams is bad for F1. I was surprised the switch wasn't blocked by the FIA.

[selvam_e2002]

May be new Williams team can Join Renault in 2022.

or

If Renault frequently beating RB in 2021 and 22 then in 2023 Honda gone and Renault will supply RB again.

RB is not pushing Honda as of now because they comfortably sitting second. If Renault keep on troubling for frequent podium, then they will criticize Honda and can come back to RB beyond 2023. It is very much possible.

Honda and RB waiting for 2022, if it is failed then Honda gone. RB back to Renault.

[diffuser]

May be new Williams team can Join Renault in 2022.

or

If Renault frequently beating RB in 2021 and 22 then in 2023 Honda gone and Renault will supply RB again.

RB is not pushing Honda as of now because they comfortably sitting second. If Renault keep on troubling for frequent podium, then they will criticize Honda and can come back to RB beyond 2023. It is very much possible.

Honda and RB waiting for 2022, if it is failed then Honda gone. RB back to Renault.

You know, RBR May say alot of shiit publicly, they don't make their decision based on BS.

After the race at SPA Horner was commenting on PU specifically on Ferrari. He went on to say that Merc was the clear leader and the Honda/Renault PUs are a wash. That Renault had the edge at some tracks, while Honda at others.

Unless Honda pulls out, I don't see a return to Renault for RBR.

[selvam_e2002]

Okay. I think the most of the power for RB coming from chassis instead of Engine. I also read some where that Honda engine can not go beyond 4 Races.

If RB has Renault engine this year RB be could be much closer to Mercedes.

[diffuser]

Okay. I think the most of the power for RB coming from chassis instead of Engine. I also read some where that Honda engine can not go beyond 4 Races.

If RB has Renault engine this year RB be could be much closer to Mercedes.

Yeah, I think you're dreaming.

[tangodjango]

Renault would probably paid for a pilot seat (as theiy need something to develop their junior path). Second, renault tried to set up a deal (exchange of non listed parts) with mclaren, don't know exactly what is the status for 2021 in term of std aprts and listes parts, but imagine renault focus on PU and break system and mcl gearbox and suspension, both team exchanging their dvpt to the other team. Coud save I don't know, 30M€ each. Win / win deal.

They will not do that. If they had been willing to dropped the price, they would have kept McLaren.

Not mention Toto confirmed that Merc is selling their engines under the price and overall at loss to their customers.

Do you have any source for that? I remember Cyril saying that their engines were more expensive partly because of French labour laws.

[zack!]

well, what is for sure, is that the french law forbids that you sell under the cost (especially when there is a market with competitors).

[tangodjango]

well, what is for sure, is that the french law forbids that you sell under the cost (especially when there is a market with competitors).

"Not mention Toto confirmed that Merc is selling their engines under the price and overall at loss to their customers."
So this is just your opinion because in every other source I've read said they make a small profit overall on manufacturing. As R&D is a fixed cost for both companies we can ignore that.

[Neno]

Ill find source for you dont you worry

EDIT: Dammit, I cant find it now, but I will eventually. Overall article was about profits out engine deals and how Mercedes isnt really making any money out customer deals. And they are in their word just off setting price for engine development they did for their own car which included making good engine. So they overall selling engines at loss and trying increasing number of customer deals to break even. Ill find it eventually.

In one of articles I found are this quotes:
"The engine development costs big money, and the engine departments of all the current suppliers are loss making entities which shouldn't be the case, so we're trying to contain that."

"Wolff points out that engine suppliers are being required to sell this equipment at lower prices than ever before." Which is BS. If you read further down my post you will realize Honda really can't sell engines to any other team because they are contractually obligated to worship RB an AT and Renault only in that time had Mclaren under engine deal so he really one spoke about thing he knows most - mercedes.


Also there was article soon after that from autosport which i found btw, about Renault and Abiteboul who confirmed they also arent making any money out engine deal and their current engine price is dictated by cap limitiation.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14669 ... istraction

But while Mercedes has always emphasised the benefits of having multiple customers, Renault F1 managing director Cyril Abiteboul said there would be no downsides to his firm going alone.

"From an economic perspective, there is absolutely no impact and nothing in it, because we sell, more or less, at a cost due to the price cap limitation

Now even without my article I searched if you read between lines you should conclude that Merc is satisfied about selling at loss due more customer engine deals because in reality selling engines for them isnt about making profit, but Renault even with same thinking had set price on engine and they werent really willing "sell" below it.

But Mclaren found that Merc deal is better than Renault deal and they were willing to use tokens on engine and do chassis integration hassle. Which to me is another suggestion that deal with Merc was a lot cheaper, again suggesting selling engine well below what "best" engine on grid is worth it.

[diffuser]

They will not do that. If they had been willing to dropped the price, they would have kept McLaren.

Not mention Toto confirmed that Merc is selling their engines under the price and overall at loss to their customers.

Do you have any source for that? I remember Cyril saying that their engines were more expensive partly because of French labour laws.

I doudt stuff is cheaper in the UK.

[dren]

Isn't there a cap on PU prices to customers?