Ferrari SF1000

[Unf]

What SF1000 remind me is... Alonso's Mclaren. The same suffering from drag and the same "GP2 engine" behaviour on straights...

[wesley123]

Regarding drag; I disagree. I don't think drag is the issue here. Ferrari have lost quite a bit of power, and what we have seen in the past is that when teams are down on power, they try to overcome this by cutting drag.

Ferrari has not done so this season, so I don't believe this is the issue.

The issue imo isn't directly car related, but it is team related. It is <...>; politics are at play, no one takes responsibility for this mess. And no one sets up a clear direction on where to go, which just means that they go everywhere but where they need to go. Binotto needs to take his responsibility here, which he has not done; all he did was 'reorganize' the team, in which nothing actually changed, that just sounds like he is trying to keep some people happy.

[bruno958]

. It is an italian team being italian again; politics are at play, no one takes responsibility for this mess.

Bingo!!!!

[LM10]

Oh no!!!! Binotto says more upgrades are planned for Monza. I say they loose another second with the new upgrades. This team has not clue. Time for a complete reset.

Upgrades in this case probably mean the low downforce package that was already tried in Spa.
Cut FW, no T-wing and basically no RW.
Maybe something else, who knows.

In the longer period I don't expect Ferrari to radically change the car to a lower downforce/drag one because their 2021 PU should be a significant step forward considering their current PU was hit late with TDs and they rushed with the building of it (as per AMuS).
The SF1000's biggest issue is that it was designed with a really powerful PU in mind. It's like having a big guy being used to his heart performance and suddenly suffering from severe heart insufficiency. He'll need to get used to it as well and get medication to reduce symptoms, but the best to be back to normal conditions will be to get a new heart. Ferrari's heart is insufficient right now and they try to medicate it, but the best cure will be a new and more powerful one come 2021.

[selvam_e2002]

Oh no!!!! Binotto says more upgrades are planned for Monza. I say they loose another second with the new upgrades. This team has not clue. Time for a complete reset.

Upgrades in this case probably mean the low downforce package that was already tried in Spa.
Cut FW, no T-wing and basically no RW.
Maybe something else, who knows.

In the longer period I don't expect Ferrari to radically change the car to a lower downforce/drag one because their 2021 PU should be a significant step forward considering their current PU was hit late with TDs and they rushed with the building of it (as per AMuS).
The SF1000's biggest issue is that it was designed with a really powerful PU in mind. It's like having a big guy being used to his heart performance and suddenly suffering from severe heart insufficiency. He'll need to get used to it as well and get medication to reduce symptoms, but the best to be back to normal conditions will be to get a new heart. Ferrari's heart is insufficient right now and they try to medicate it, but the best cure will be a new and more powerful one come 2021.

I doubt it as we have token system for 2021. May be 2022 they will have good PU but will challenge for Mercedes? which I doubt. You cannot have PU in single night. It is a development phase race by race.

In my opinion, they are not concentrated in developing PU and Engine from 2017 when Binotto took responsibility for technical side. He literally concentrated on finding loop hole which is blocked now.

I don't believe they can have good PU/engine in 2021 nor 2022. Long way to go.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Regarding drag; I disagree. I don't think drag is the issue here. Ferrari have lost quite a bit of power, and what we have seen in the past is that when teams are down on power, they try to overcome this by cutting drag.

Ferrari has not done so this season, so I don't believe this is the issue.

The issue imo isn't directly car related, but it is team related. It is an italian team being italian again; politics are at play, no one takes responsibility for this mess. And no one sets up a clear direction on where to go, which just means that they go everywhere but where they need to go. Binotto needs to take his responsibility here, which he has not done; all he did was 'reorganize' the team, in which nothing actually changed, that just sounds like he is trying to keep some people happy.

[...] The Ferrari is slow at Spa because it has a lack of power and it has high drag, plain and simple. They can only cut down on drag so much, and sometimes they don't even know what is causing the excess drag.

The engineers are always trying to cut down drag on every team. Check the videos on youtube, LEC got up to 361kph on the Kemmel straight on sunday in an attempt to pass VET. How did he do that? He had a double tow and the DRAG REDUCTION SYSTEM engaged. The same power as he had all weekend but he had a huge tow and got to 361kph. The car clearly is making too much drag at a downforce level lower than the leaders, specifically in high speed regime(250kph+). The aero team needs to find it and eliminate it.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Oh no!!!! Binotto says more upgrades are planned for Monza. I say they loose another second with the new upgrades. This team has not clue. Time for a complete reset.

Upgrades in this case probably mean the low downforce package that was already tried in Spa.
Cut FW, no T-wing and basically no RW.
Maybe something else, who knows.

In the longer period I don't expect Ferrari to radically change the car to a lower downforce/drag one because their 2021 PU should be a significant step forward considering their current PU was hit late with TDs and they rushed with the building of it (as per AMuS).
The SF1000's biggest issue is that it was designed with a really powerful PU in mind. It's like having a big guy being used to his heart performance and suddenly suffering from severe heart insufficiency. He'll need to get used to it as well and get medication to reduce symptoms, but the best to be back to normal conditions will be to get a new heart. Ferrari's heart is insufficient right now and they try to medicate it, but the best cure will be a new and more powerful one come 2021.

Drag is something all the teams are constantly looking to reduce at all times and in every configuration(low, med, and high downforce configurations). If they designed the car for high downforce then they would have been faster in S2 this weekend, they weren't. There is something they don't understand about the car, it is producing far more drag than they estimated it would in the design process. They need to stay focused and figure out why the car is so aerodynamically inefficient.

[Alakshendra]

Oh no!!!! Binotto says more upgrades are planned for Monza. I say they loose another second with the new upgrades. This team has not clue. Time for a complete reset.

Upgrades in this case probably mean the low downforce package that was already tried in Spa.
Cut FW, no T-wing and basically no RW.
Maybe something else, who knows.

In the longer period I don't expect Ferrari to radically change the car to a lower downforce/drag one because their 2021 PU should be a significant step forward considering their current PU was hit late with TDs and they rushed with the building of it (as per AMuS).
The SF1000's biggest issue is that it was designed with a really powerful PU in mind. It's like having a big guy being used to his heart performance and suddenly suffering from severe heart insufficiency. He'll need to get used to it as well and get medication to reduce symptoms, but the best to be back to normal conditions will be to get a new heart. Ferrari's heart is insufficient right now and they try to medicate it, but the best cure will be a new and more powerful one come 2021.

I think what happened in SPA was because of it has an engine down on power and secondly it has an aerodynamic package. We all agree on the first part as all Ferrari-powered teams have been struggling this year and it was no surprise to see them towards the back of the field again at Spa

But the inefficiency of Ferrari's aero package compared to its customers came as a shock , its a clear cut case of inefficient downforce, all teams tries to do that with target to add downforce without adding a significant amount of drag.Last year ferrari lacked downforce which caused issue at corners, from years ferrari seems to be lacking in aera of aero as well (i know 2018 was good but not good enough) so that is one year which needs a major overhaul even if the target is for 2022.

[LM10]

Upgrades in this case probably mean the low downforce package that was already tried in Spa.
Cut FW, no T-wing and basically no RW.
Maybe something else, who knows.

In the longer period I don't expect Ferrari to radically change the car to a lower downforce/drag one because their 2021 PU should be a significant step forward considering their current PU was hit late with TDs and they rushed with the building of it (as per AMuS).
The SF1000's biggest issue is that it was designed with a really powerful PU in mind. It's like having a big guy being used to his heart performance and suddenly suffering from severe heart insufficiency. He'll need to get used to it as well and get medication to reduce symptoms, but the best to be back to normal conditions will be to get a new heart. Ferrari's heart is insufficient right now and they try to medicate it, but the best cure will be a new and more powerful one come 2021.

I doubt it as we have token system for 2021. May be 2022 they will have good PU but will challenge for Mercedes? which I doubt. You cannot have PU in single night. It is a development phase race by race.

In my opinion, they are not concentrated in developing PU and Engine from 2017 when Binotto took responsibility for technical side. He literally concentrated on finding loop hole which is blocked now.

I don't believe they can have good PU/engine in 2021 nor 2022. Long way to go.

I’ll repeat it again: There won’t be a token system for PU development.

[selvam_e2002]

Thanks for the information. I am in the impression that, token system for PU as well.

[Xwang]

In the longer period I don't expect Ferrari to radically change the car to a lower downforce/drag one because their 2021 PU should be a significant step forward considering their current PU was hit late with TDs and they rushed with the building of it (as per AMuS).

If I remember correctly the use of the second Fuel flow meter was already in the technical regulations at the end of last year before the late TDs, so if they were exploiting that grey zone, they should have know that it would have been closed for 2020 well before winter tests so they should have at least minimized the power loss.
I have read the 2020 F1 Technical regulations issued on 04 december 2019 and this are the changes made regarding PU:
1) Article 6.1.2 changed from

6.1.2 When viewed in lateral projection, all the fuel stored on board the car must be situated between the forward‐most of the two vertical planes referred to in Article 5.3.7 and the line a‐b‐c in Drawing 2.
Furthermore, no fuel can be stored more than 300mm forward of point c) in Drawing 2. However, a maximum of 2 litres of fuel may be kept outside the survival cell, but only that which is necessary for the normal running of the engine.

to:

6.1.2 When viewed in lateral projection, all the fuel stored on board the car must be situated between the forward-most of the two vertical planes referred to in Article 5.3.7 and 50mm forward of the line a-b-c in Drawing 2.
Furthermore, no fuel can be stored more than 300mm forward of point c) in Drawing 2. However, a maximum of 0.25 litres of fuel may be kept outside the survival cell, but only that which is necessary for the normal running of the engine.

2) introduced article 7.9 and following stating:

7.9 AOT
7.9.1 Only one AOT may be fitted to the car.
7.9.2 The total volume of the AOT and its connections to the engine must not be greater than 2.5l. The transfer of oil between the AOT and the engine must be controlled by a solenoid.

3) article 19.8.2 changed from:

19.8.2 Fuel density will also be checked and must be within 0.25% of the figure noted during pre‐approval analysis.

to:

19.8.2 Fuel density will also be checked and must be within 0.25% of the figure noted during pre-approval analysis of the fuel that is declared to be in use .

4) article 19.8.3 changed from:

19.8.3 Fuel samples taken during an Event will be checked for conformity by using a gas chromatographic technique, which will compare the sample taken with an approved fuel. Samples which differ from the approved fuel in a manner consistent with evaporative loss, will be considered to conform. However, the FIA retains the right to subject the fuel sample to further testing at an FIA approved laboratory.

to:

19.8.3 Fuel samples taken during an Event will be checked for conformity by using a gas chromatographic technique, which will compare the sample taken with an a reference sample of the fuel that is declared to be in use. Samples which differ from the approved fuel in a manner consistent with evaporative loss, will be considered to conform. However, the FIA retains the right to subject the fuel sample to further testing at an FIA approved laboratory.

4) article 19.8.4 changed from:

19.8.4 GC peak areas of the sample will be compared with those obtained from the reference fuel. Increases in any given peak area (relative to its adjacent peak areas) which are greater than 12%, or an absolute amount greater than 0.10% for compounds present at concentrations below 0.8%, will be deemed not to comply.
If a peak is detected in a fuel sample that was absent in the corresponding reference fuel, and its peak area represents more than 0.10% of the summed peak areas of the fuel, the fuel will be deemed not to comply.
If the deviations observed (above) by GC indicate that they are due to mixing with another Formula One fuel, which has been approved by the FIA for use by the team, the fuel sample will be deemed to comply, provided that the adulterant fuel is present at no more than 10% in the sample.

to:

19.8.4 GC peak areas of the sample will be compared with those obtained from the reference fuel. Increases in any given peak area (relative to its adjacent peak areas) which are greater than 12%, or an absolute amount greater than 0.10% for compounds present at concentrations below 0.8%, will be deemed not to comply.
If a peak is detected in a fuel sample that was absent in the corresponding reference fuel, and its peak area represents more than 0.10% of the summed peak areas of the fuel, the fuel will be deemed not to comply.
If the deviations observed (above) by GC indicate that they are due to incidental mixing with another Formula One fuel to the one declared, but which has been approved by the FIA for use by the team, the fuel sample will be deemed to comply, provided that the adulterant fuel is present at no more than 10% in the sample. Any systematic abuse of mixed fuels will be deemed not to comply.

So IMHO this year engine and car should have already taken these modification in consideration.

Then the latest 2020 technical regulations (issued on 19 June 2020) add the 5.1.6 article (renumbering the following ones)

5)

5.1.6 At partial load, the fuel mass flow must not exceed the limit curve defined below:
- Q (kg/h) = 10 when the engine power is below -50kW
- Q (kg/h) = 0.257 x engine power (kW) + 22.85 when the engine power is above -50kW

I have not been able to find in the technical regulation where the second fuel flow sensor has been required, but I remember that the relevant TD has been issued during 2019 because it impacted the design of the fuel tank and so it needed time to be made. Is it so?
In such a case IMHO it seems that the only "unexpected" rule change is the one described in point 5 above. All the other ones (including the second fuel flow meter) were known well in advantage and so Ferrari should have reacted to them accordingly when they were designing/optimizing the 2020 car.

[wesley123]

Regarding drag; I disagree. I don't think drag is the issue here. Ferrari have lost quite a bit of power, and what we have seen in the past is that when teams are down on power, they try to overcome this by cutting drag.

Ferrari has not done so this season, so I don't believe this is the issue.

The issue imo isn't directly car related, but it is team related. It is an italian team being italian again; politics are at play, no one takes responsibility for this mess. And no one sets up a clear direction on where to go, which just means that they go everywhere but where they need to go. Binotto needs to take his responsibility here, which he has not done; all he did was 'reorganize' the team, in which nothing actually changed, that just sounds like he is trying to keep some people happy.

[...] The Ferrari is slow at Spa because it has a lack of power and it has high drag, plain and simple. They can only cut down on drag so much, and sometimes they don't even know what is causing the excess drag.

The engineers are always trying to cut down drag on every team. Check the videos on youtube, LEC got up to 361kph on the Kemmel straight on sunday in an attempt to pass VET. How did he do that? He had a double tow and the DRAG REDUCTION SYSTEM engaged. The same power as he had all weekend but he had a huge tow and got to 361kph. The car clearly is making too much drag at a downforce level lower than the leaders, specifically in high speed regime(250kph+). The aero team needs to find it and eliminate it.

361kph is quite fast for a car that is both down on power and draggy. Having a tow doesn't change this.

You can say 'they can only cut down so much drag', except they haven't done anything special. We have two prime examples of cars that suffered a power deficit and were considered draggy; The Red Bull Renault and McLaren Honda. What we saw with those two teams was that they consistently ran less wing than what everyone else was doing. This is not something that we are seeing with Ferrari.

[CLKGTR]

2019 vs 2020 comparison reveals dramatic loss of power for Ferrari F1 power unit

Ferrari is the only team slower than last year with an average gain from 1.9s from all 10 teams - pretty shocking.

[LM10]

Upgrades in this case probably mean the low downforce package that was already tried in Spa.
Cut FW, no T-wing and basically no RW.
Maybe something else, who knows.

In the longer period I don't expect Ferrari to radically change the car to a lower downforce/drag one because their 2021 PU should be a significant step forward considering their current PU was hit late with TDs and they rushed with the building of it (as per AMuS).
The SF1000's biggest issue is that it was designed with a really powerful PU in mind. It's like having a big guy being used to his heart performance and suddenly suffering from severe heart insufficiency. He'll need to get used to it as well and get medication to reduce symptoms, but the best to be back to normal conditions will be to get a new heart. Ferrari's heart is insufficient right now and they try to medicate it, but the best cure will be a new and more powerful one come 2021.

Drag is something all the teams are constantly looking to reduce at all times and in every configuration(low, med, and high downforce configurations). If they designed the car for high downforce then they would have been faster in S2 this weekend, they weren't. There is something they don't understand about the car, it is producing far more drag than they estimated it would in the design process. They need to stay focused and figure out why the car is so aerodynamically inefficient.

They were 4 tenths faster in S2 compared to last year. And that's with significantly less power.
S2 might be a downforce section by Spa standards, but it still has quite a few parts where sheer engine power puts you in a clearly better position. The SF1000 surely lost in these mini sections, but it gained enough to be 4 tenths faster at the end.

[Schippke]

In the longer period I don't expect Ferrari to radically change the car to a lower downforce/drag one because their 2021 PU should be a significant step forward considering their current PU was hit late with TDs and they rushed with the building of it (as per AMuS).
The SF1000's biggest issue is that it was designed with a really powerful PU in mind. It's like having a big guy being used to his heart performance and suddenly suffering from severe heart insufficiency. He'll need to get used to it as well and get medication to reduce symptoms, but the best to be back to normal conditions will be to get a new heart. Ferrari's heart is insufficient right now and they try to medicate it, but the best cure will be a new and more powerful one come 2021.

Drag is something all the teams are constantly looking to reduce at all times and in every configuration(low, med, and high downforce configurations). If they designed the car for high downforce then they would have been faster in S2 this weekend, they weren't. There is something they don't understand about the car, it is producing far more drag than they estimated it would in the design process. They need to stay focused and figure out why the car is so aerodynamically inefficient.

They were 4 tenths faster in S2 compared to last year. And that's with significantly less power.
S2 might be a downforce section by Spa standards, but it still has quite a few parts where sheer engine power puts you in a clearly better position. The SF1000 surely lost in these mini sections, but it gained enough to be 4 tenths faster at the end.

There was mention that Ferrari ran a somewhat compromised setup in Spa in the hope of rain making an appearance during the race; If they ran more downforce as a result of that, it could explain the noticeable improvement in pace of Sector 2 compared to last year.