[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[McMika98]

They're allowed to change engine modes for reliability issues and have to report it to the FIA

ah thanks , you mean they can change mode for lower power sitting but not for more right ?

That's my understanding but don't quote me on it!

Well. Max on his opening lap with Perez on his back is told to go to mode 7 and then start 8 in the straights to cover. Very very odd. Its lap1, surely this isn't allowed. His engine was fine then.

[godlameroso]

Reason for Max DNF?

Engine anomalies, he was stopped as a precaution because it was likely he wasn't going to score points.

Mugello will suit the RB16, it will be quite hot and requires Silverstone levels of downforce.

[SmallSoldier]

Because Bottas was on a train of cars with more pace than the ones Hamilton was against... The Mclaren’s with their low DF setup were very hard to catch even with DRS... If you add the overheating issues that Bottas had since the beginning of the race, it explains why Hamilton moved so much up the grid... But they do hold a significant pace advantage (which Hamilton also showed at the beginning of the race).

Since they can’t change ICE modes during the race, his PU damage wouldn’t be much higher than the rest of the field.


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i couldn't disagree more and i don't think any one can agree with you, since when mclaren can stop a mercs?
Hamilton pace at the start due to having a midfield car behind him.

but to be honest iam lost now because clearly drivers changed mode during the race and i have no clue what is going on...

Since when a Mclaren can stop a Mercedes? In a race where top speed is critical to make a pass and Mercedes running more downforce than Mclaren (and Mclaren in taking advantage of the tow), the Merc just didn’t had the pace to execute the pass... Not that much different than Max been stuck behind Bottas too for the first stint of the race without been able to pull a move.


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[mem]

SmallSoldier wow big talk , well no not even that can stop mercs against the midfield cars with out the engine mode ban , you qualified only 8 tenths off Hamilton what more evidence you need ?
Bottas complained from the one mode system during race saying he can't race its a joke.
so they definitely lost power not gained as Toto said a dizilion time

[godlameroso]

Believing Toto is a fool's errand.

[zibby43]

RaceFans.net has the radio transcript between Max and his engineer before he had to retire.

They're describing it as an engine overheating issue.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/06/ver ... etirement/

[Marti_EF3]

Better he stops moaning about the engine when he knows perfectly what is not working on the car...

[godlameroso]

If the engine was not working what is he to do? He's now lost more ground to Mercedes. Shame really, on to the next one.

[Sieper]

Yeah, it was a bit the nail in the coffin. This whole weekend. I was terribly upset as well.

Max drove very mature though. Both on qualy (where Sainz took enormous risks) as well as at the start, where he had wheelspin and decide to keep everyone alive at the chicane. Too bad he got caught exactly behind a Merc in the DRS train. Worst place. He was quicker than Bottas though, just not on the straight.

A weekend to learn from, and certainly also to quickly forget. Like you say, on to the next one where I hope Max can challenge Bottas again.

[Marti_EF3]

If the engine was not working what is he to do? He's now lost more ground to Mercedes. Shame really, on to the next one.

When the car is not working, I want to hear the same. Same explicit words, which I didn't heard at the moment

[Sayeman]

Season's lost anyway. Max is not gonna be the youngest world champion despite Dr. Helmet parroting it around. Highly doubt points earned today would have made any difference to the championship.

RBR's chassis struggles is not gonna be good for Honda's morale for sure. Every year they start on the backfoot, then Horner will come out and say "Newey's interested in F1 again!" then will improve a bit. Since 2014 I don't think RBR/Mclaren had even a single year where their chassis was superior to Mercedes. Even Ferrari had a great car in 2018. Max is out as soon as Lewis retires and his Merc seat is ripe for taking.

Honda needs to improve for sure, its lagging compared to Merc and maybe even Renault. But if you dont have the confidence in RBR to produce a good chassis, you wont have the motivation to keep pushing.

[Revs84]

It seems to me that Max is well aware of the chassis' issues. He seemed extremely frustrated and just vented it out on the engine when it gave up on him - probably given he had a very rare opportunity to decrease the deficit to Hamilton. With his current package, unfortunately it might seem at this point that there will be very few other such opportunities, if any, for him to close in.

I'm not justifying his comments, as I felt they were unfair considering how hard Honda are working and how much they respect him. However, you do have to feel for him as he's been driving so hard to keep the championship dreams alive.

Nevertheless, I do wonder - Given the rising PU temperatures, how come he didn't chase some 'cooler' air as Bottas was doing? Wasn't he instructed to do so? I might be mistaken, but didn't he already have to change mode earlier in the race due to reliability? I cannot confirm this myself, but I recall the Sky commentators mentioning this sometime around lap 10.

Even after the mode change (If indeed there was one), Max still stayed in Bottas' slipstream. So again, I do wonder why no measures were taken at that point.

On a related note, does anyone know which ICE Max was using? I'm assuming the 2nd one, which was not used in Spain due to reported 'anomalies'. Any way to confirm this?

[Revs84]

Season's lost anyway. Max is not gonna be the youngest world champion despite Dr. Helmet parroting it around. Highly doubt points earned today would have made any difference to the championship.

RBR's chassis struggles is not gonna be good for Honda's morale for sure. Every year they start on the backfoot, then Horner will come out and say "Newey's interested in F1 again!" then will improve a bit. Since 2014 I don't think RBR/Mclaren had even a single year where their chassis was superior to Mercedes. Even Ferrari had a great car in 2018. Max is out as soon as Lewis retires and his Merc seat is ripe for taking.

Honda needs to improve for sure, its lagging compared to Merc and maybe even Renault. But if you dont have the confidence in RBR to produce a good chassis, you wont have the motivation to keep pushing.

If you asked me a couple of days ago, I would also have thought that Honda are slightly behind.

But you know what? How can we even confirm that when Honda's flagship chassis is seemingly flawed?

On one hand, we know that high rake inherently is more draggy and the RB16 seems to struggle to put power down. It also seems to lack grip and performance in cornering.

On the other hand, we have a Mercedes chassis which is very strong and predictable. I think it's safe to say that it's the current benchmark on the grid.

So how can we even tell at this point whether Honda are truly behind until the main issues with the RB16 are fixed?

[godlameroso]

The car needs to be balanced, I feel it is the nature of the track, both lesmos and the ascari chicane are in a speed range that the car doesn't particularly like. Parabolica, and the two chicanes are fine, car is good under brakes. It is not an easy car to trim the downforce and drag out of. Plus it still has that instability issue, and it happens under a certain speed range. The car is prone to stalling in the 140-165ish kph range, it just doesn't work well in transitions at that speed. It's fine if it's braking, or accelerating, but the transition is where the car is skittish.

Only two such corners on the next track, turns 1 and 12, all the others will be in the ideal speed range for the RB.

[Moore77]

If the engine was not working what is he to do? He's now lost more ground to Mercedes. Shame really, on to the next one.

When the car is not working, I want to hear the same. Same explicit words, which I didn't heard at the moment

When the car is not working, but the car is still on track, there is less frustration than when a driver loses places due to an engine issue and then it gives him a feeling that it is going to be terminal and then it becomes terminal. Bottas was also frustrated when his engine was getting hot and he was being constantly asked to get out of slip stream which was overheating.

It's not like Max hasn't been driving the car when it is bad shape and hasn't made his displeasure clear in the past. You can't ask him to balance his choice of words towards the chassis and engine, especially if one causes his race to end. That is how it is, not just for Red Bull, but for any other car and driver out there.

Every car up and down the grid has to change their packaging and enhance their cooling now due to the this rule change. That means, we might see more openings on the engine covers or more bulkier engine covers with bigger opening at the back or the engine mappings have to brought down a notch and lower the power to reduce the friction and heat. I am not sure how fast the cooling efficiencies can be increased for the rest of the year.