2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[bucker]

Nobody noticed lap 19, magnusen caused safety car in strange way, just after Leclerc Pit for hards. Then Leclerc took strategic position among first cars after safety car restart. Sounds a bit dodgy, Mgnuaen broke something without evidence

Oh here we go....

Agree. I can’t see anything there to think of foul play at all. Just coincidence.

You can clearly see some kind of oil leak right behind parked car.

[maxxer]

https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2020/ ... doubt.html

So on the right side there is a single yellow flag and on the left there are 2 tiny displays, while the massive heineken sign in the pit lane said "Box,Box,Box"
I think the FIA screwed up here with there signalling and have to review better how to signal that the pitstraight is closed.
Put the big heineken sign earlier
The two other signs could also have said SC and still be red.
You dont put traffic lights on the other side of the road.

[Schuttelberg]

I thought the party mode ban would make Mercedes faster? Why was Bottas then complaining about it today? Specially after his cocky jibe yesterday?

Weird. Toto also said they'd be faster in races and a more honest man has never spoken. Weird.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Never been a fan of wacky races, just feels too artificial. Is there a record for the maximum number of penalties handed out in a single race? or in a single season? We must be on the way to breaking one of those two records. Anyway, good drive from Gasly I do wonder if Red Bull is thinking about swapping him back to the main team, Albon really isn't performing at the moment. A pretty disappointing drive for Bottas, seemed to be blaming the lack of engine modes for not being able to race, but that didn't seem to stop Hamilton? I remember a few years ago how a rule change around driver coaching really hurt Rosberg's performance, I do wonder if this will have a similar impact.

EDIT: Also, I do hope the FIA fully investigate today's stupidity with the pitlane closure and make sure it doesn't happen again, there needs to be a much clearer system, even if just from a safety point of view.

2 bright flashing lights aren't enough warning?

You can always tell a front-runner fan by the way they whine...

Those bright lights are also flashing when the pitlane is open, they were flashing SC rather than a yellow "X", it seems every your eagle eyed vision didn't spot this?

Everything that is conveyed via those light boards has an equivalent flag or board that is displayed at the marshal stations, if you look to Hamilton's right as he was coming around the last corner you see the waved yellows and a marshall holding a "SC" board... why wasn't he holding a "PIT CLOSED" board? Because there isn't one. The driver also gets a "SC" notice in the car, as well as a notice for the various different flags, but again nothing for pit lane closure. Forgetting today's result, this needs to be fixed on safety grounds.

[ispano6]

Yes but again WHY did some deserve good karma and some deserve bad karma? This is what is not being understood?

There is no why, there just is. Good Karma came from diligence and Bad Karma from arrogance. If anyone feels crappy about the results of the race, maybe they deserve to feel that way. Alpha Tauri ebbed and flowed with good Karma, Red Bull likely had some bad Karma. Good decision making led to Good Karma, bad decision making led to Bad Karma. Are you going to ask "BUT WHY?" again? If so, direct your question to those responsible for the Bad Karma and arrogance and decision making! Sometimes people need to eat a slice of humble pie or their own words. Like those who trash talked Honda PU being slower than the Renault "lump" in the back of the McLaren. Surely Bottas should have won the race if the Mercedes car was so dominant. People here were calling the race even before it happened. I said wait until the race is over. Abiteboul said that Red Bull missed the "trick" of not being a PU manufacturer and car builder in one. Well look what the small budget Alpha Tauri team was able to pull off. If anything, Alpha Tauri has had more time to work with Honda as a partner and the notion of "customer" team isn't here as they get equal support and treatment with Red Bull through Red Bull Technologies.

I could say "eat crow" or "what goes around comes around", would you understand that?

But if you pretend to fight for title you must be competitive in Monza too

I love how Mercedes are pretending that the party mode ban makes them stronger. I can bet my last bottom dollar that the snake Wolff would never have been using it the other way round if it was so. What is scary is how much faster Mercedes would be if they had the modes.

The arrogance can be smelt from a distance. One day this will end, and the saying 'how the mighty have fallen' will imply.

Will they have the guts to stay and fight it out or will they go home?

It's the usual rule of the human history that those in power, can afford to be arrogant. Mercedes have more good reasons to be arrogant as rule change after rule change, nothing is stopping them. By the time they fall, I am sure the legacy would something that the F1 would never forget. So more than saying, how the might have fallen, they would probably remembered as "How great that team was". They endured frustrating few years, toiling in the mid field and facing a great deal of embarrassment before taking the F1 by storm. For as long as they last in the way they are, they can afford to be arrogant and the world can simply watch on.

[jz11]

low DF track where DRS offers basically no help, and midfield, where the fights might have had happened, were all in top speed setup, which means they lack DF to even begin to try and follow someone to get a reasonable chance of drafting and doing it the old way, and no one was really out of place with an obviously slow car in front to have a reason to overtake, at the end there Sainz had the motivation to try it, despite the team even asking/telling him to stay put, yet he could barely stay there with Gasly, I doubt he would have managed to get past him, more likely he would use all the stored energy he had saved and had to go into conservation mode after finally getting into DRS range, despite that wishful thinking message on the radio saying he could do it with one more lap

and remember - they manage their pace, drive to simulated target times, because if they go faster, the tyres start to fall apart

these are the reasons why there was no overtaking, not the engine mode ban

the only one out of place was Bottas, no idea what what damage was on his car, I didn't hear any details about it from commentators, but he showed absolutely no effort to do anything apart from staying put, quite a miserable spectacle...

regarding the closed pits - the team called him in, why are you even trying to blame it on the supposedly badly placed signaling boards? the team screwed up, didn't notice the flag and told him to stay out, he shouldn't have to look at the boards, and you also don't put a light at the pit entry for this sort of thing - because once you're committed to pit entry, you can't really back out when you notice the light, don't blame Ham, don't blame the track, blame his pits for missing the flag and telling him to box, commentators noticed the flags for f... sake, yet the strategists somehow missed it and it's all track, marshals of whatever fault, just not the team...

[i70q7m7ghw]

regarding the closed pits - the team called him in, why are you even trying to blame it on the supposedly badly placed signaling boards? the team screwed up, didn't notice the flag and told him to stay out, he shouldn't have to look at the boards, and you also don't put a light at the pit entry for this sort of thing - because once you're committed to pit entry, you can't really back out when you notice the light, don't blame Ham, don't blame the track, blame his pits for missing the flag and telling him to box, commentators noticed the flags for f... sake, yet the strategists somehow missed it and it's all track, marshals of whatever fault, just not the team...

There is no "flag" for pit lane closure, they change the flashing "SC" symbol on the digital marker boards to a yellow "X" flashing "X" symbol, at least that's what they do at Monza, I currently can't find any documented standard for closing the pit lane for entry... Also, the FIA system doesn't "publish" the pit lane closure in the same way it does for other flags & the SC, so it's much harder for the teams to spot. The FIA probably should have red flagged it if they wanted to roll the car across a live track in to the pit lane.

[jz11]

are you suggesting that the pit wall had no idea the pit lane is closed?

yet McLaren had no problem noticing this...

edit: can't remember if commentators said it or someone here wrote that it was 12 seconds between the pit closure notice and Ham entering pits

[maxxer]

are you suggesting that the pit wall had no idea the pit lane is closed?

yet McLaren had no problem noticing this...

edit: can't remember if commentators said it or someone here wrote that it was 12 seconds between the pit closure notice and Ham entering pits

They where 10 seconds behind hamilton so they had more time to get to page 4

[i70q7m7ghw]

are you suggesting that the pit wall had no idea the pit lane is closed?

yet McLaren had no problem noticing this...

edit: can't remember if commentators said it or someone here wrote that it was 12 seconds between the pit closure notice and Ham entering pits

Mercedes noticed, but only as Hamilton was entering the pits. There's clearly an issue if not everyone is immediately aware i.e. like when a SC is called.

There is only a single regulation regarding pit lane closure, 28.14 of the sporting code, and it makes no mention of a standard signal for closing the pit lane.

28.14 Under exceptional circumstances the race director may ask for the pit entry to be closed during the race for safety reasons. At such times drivers may only enter the pit lane in order for essential and entirely evident repairs to be carried out to the car. A penalty under Article 38.3(d) will be imposed on any driver who, in the opinion of the stewards, entered the pit lane for any other reason whilst it was closed.

Contrast this for the rule regarding the saftey car...

39.4 When the order is given to deploy the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED" will be sent to all teams via the official messaging system, all FIA light panels will display “SC” and all marshal's posts will display waved yellow flags and "SC" boards for the duration of the intervention.

I strongly suspect this is something that differs greatly from circuit to circuit, and if that's the case it's the race director's responsibility to highlight this during the pre-race drivers briefing.

[Wass85]

Hamilton did receive 2 penalty points on his licence for the incident.

[ESPImperium]

Ive seen many people on many forums today moaning about the Marshall posts at Monza being too tight, especially in that area. Simply put, as I do know from personal knowledge, that one is tight, its mainly a flag station as they don't expect it to see much for that reason. And it has a lighting post behind it. You can't have Marshalls there as they are in the firing line. You simply can't expect Kevin to cross the racing line and go to the other side of the track where he could be potentially wheeled back. Monza is a incredibly tight track, especially at that area of the track. You do not understand how tight it is until you have been on the track there. Its often an hour or more to leave the tracks there when the fans are on the track.

Im gonna start a discussion, what's the odds of Vettel going back to Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri alongside Tsunoda for next year? Gasly to Red Bull? Albon and Kvjiat to be dropped? As for Haas, I can see Hulkenberg and Swarzman with Scumacher and Ilott in at Alfa Romeo.

Great for McLaren today, this car has one or a few wins in it. If not this year, then next year with the Mercedes in the rear and Riccardo.

Mercedes have issues, issues in following other cars, when in low downforce, they seem to add more on, great for Qualifying, not great for the race unless they are in clean air out the front.

Mugello looks as if its going to be a good one!!!

[RZS10]

This was Lewis today .. essentially


Despite more than likely just cruising at the front he was on average 0.7s per lap quicker than second place, opening up a 14s gap - had he gone even slower then Mercedes would have noticed that the pitlane was closed ... heh

On a more serious note - are drivers even being briefed about safe places to stop the car? It would appear that it's not the case because it's race after race, year after year that someone decides to stop their car in a position which forces the deployment of the safety car.

I wonder how many marshal posts Magnussen passed with a car that clearly could not continue the race ....

[Just_a_fan]

Yes but again WHY did some deserve good karma and some deserve bad karma? This is what is not being understood?

There is no why, there just is. Good Karma came from diligence and Bad Karma from arrogance.

But what is a good or bad outcome is entirely subjective. Thus karma is subjective.

[Just_a_fan]

Hamilton did receive 2 penalty points on his licence for the incident.

I don't understand why the two drivers got penalty points. The highest in-race penalty available, short of DSQ, was imposed and they get points too. Points should be for things like deliberately hitting others cars, causing crashes, etc., not procedural faux pas.