[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[gshevlin]

I suspect that Pierre Gasly and Alexander Albon will be swapping places, certainly at the end of the season, but possibly before then.
However. I am not sure we can assume that Pierre Gasly will be able to do any better than Albon in the Red Bull. The car is clearly very peaky and difficult to set up at some circuits, and has issues in cornering that have driven Albon almost to distraction. I suspect that the problem is snap oversteer, which Max Verstappen seems to be able to live with rather better.
Teams built around a #1 driver always optimize the car design for that driver's fundamental driving style. Some of Michael Schumacher's team mates reported that they had difficulty driving their car, because Schumacher liked an extremely pointy front end that he could pivot the car around on corner entry, which is not something that drivers preferring understeer can live with.
I suspect that the Red Bull chassis set-up is optimized for Max Verstappen (which makes sense since he is the one that has shown that on a good day he can win races), and any driver coming into the team either has to assert himself to get a car set-up for him, or adapt his driving style to be more like that of Max Verstappen.

[SmallSoldier]

It is arguably still the second fastest car

That's true!

Yet Albon seems to struggle with it, and a repromoted Gasly might do little better.

Should Red Bull follow McLaren's & AlphaTauri's lead and focus on driveability and consistent balance?

Like Red Bull, Renault also seem to have a peaky car and it doesn't seem to do them any good either.

Really no, let Gasly stay at AT, the car most likely next year will still be difficult to drive. Maybe with the budget cap AT will get some more budget from RB and personal and more from Honda? Better to let him stay until the RB is proven better. I think Kyvat is done, and with the new Japanse guy coming it could be a nice combo.

Also people complaining the car is being tailored for Max, well that would be different if he had a good teammate who actually could give GOOD feedback. Albon is not there yet, let him finish the season and hopefully he will grow.

How do you know if Albon gives good or bad feedback? He may be given great feedback, which is simply overlooked because they are focus on what Max needs from the car.

Personally, if making Albon gain several tenths at the expense of Max losing one, I would do it... Better to fight with 2 cars than just one as it is happening for the last couple of seasons.


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[Wouter]

Verstappen hails Albon’s Red Bull feedback
Date published: August 27 2020

Max Verstappen believes Alex Albon is a good fit for the Red Bull team because of the feedback he provides about the car.
The Dutchman thinks his colleague, who is part-way through only his second F1 season, is able to input knowledge as well as any driver that had been in the sport for a decade.

“From what I’ve seen so far of Alex, we are working really well together.

“Probably if you had a driver who has been in Formula 1 for 10 years, he knows more about Formula 1 – that’s very normal.

“But from the feedback of Alex, I think the team is very happy, so that shows the knowledge is there and it’s now just about general experience in Formula 1, how you become a better driver.

“I think in terms of his feedback, that is straight away there – understeer, oversteer. I think it’s very easily explained and I think also when we get new parts to the car, both of us are giving the same directions.

“So I think at the end of the day that is the most important (thing). If you had two drivers telling different things, that would be a problem.”

[etusch]

Verstappen himself says Albon gives good feedback. I think car is problem rather than Albon. I also don't think Redbull not listening him and I don't think that Redbull has wrong concept. I think they are trying to do right thing but because of corelation issues they had, they can not make car working from start of season. after that they waste their efforts to solve issues instead of making a fast car faster. When they start season with good car even slower than merc they can beat them by developing second part of season.

[SmallSoldier]

Verstappen himself says Albon gives good feedback. I think car is problem rather than Albon. I also don't think Redbull not listening him and I don't think that Redbull has wrong concept. I think they are trying to do right thing but because of corelation issues they had, they can not make car working from start of season. after that they waste their efforts to solve issues instead of making a fast car faster. When they start season with good car even slower than merc they can beat them by developing second part of season.

RBR has outdevelop Mercedes at the end of every season because Mercedes has always had such an advantage in the Championship that after the summer break they are already working 100% on the next year’s car, while the rest of the field is still trying to develop their current one... That’s why it has gave the impression of Red Bull been better at developing in the second half of the season, when in reality Merc has been smart enough to focus on early on the following car and therefore show up with a better car from the start of the season.


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[Big Tea]

I suspect that Pierre Gasly and Alexander Albon will be swapping places, certainly at the end of the season, but possibly before then.
However. I am not sure we can assume that Pierre Gasly will be able to do any better than Albon in the Red Bull. The car is clearly very peaky and difficult to set up at some circuits, and has issues in cornering that have driven Albon almost to distraction. I suspect that the problem is snap oversteer, which Max Verstappen seems to be able to live with rather better.
Teams built around a #1 driver always optimize the car design for that driver's fundamental driving style. Some of Michael Schumacher's team mates reported that they had difficulty driving their car, because Schumacher liked an extremely pointy front end that he could pivot the car around on corner entry, which is not something that drivers preferring understeer can live with.
I suspect that the Red Bull chassis set-up is optimized for Max Verstappen (which makes sense since he is the one that has shown that on a good day he can win races), and any driver coming into the team either has to assert himself to get a car set-up for him, or adapt his driving style to be more like that of Max Verstappen.

I'm not sure about that. There is a cap being implemented, so RBR may have to let some top personnel go, or at least, those they are grooming for the top, and better move them to AT than lose them, especially lose them to the competition.

This week also shows the advantage of having two dogs in the race. If one end fails, the other is there to pick up points, publicity and experience.

Gasly has been there and for some reason did not perform. Is it worth risking him again? next time he may decide he has had enough and look to other teams, and his stock is high enough he will find a seat. Albon was doing fine at STR, and now is looking as if he should not be there. There is something wrong at the team, and I think the best option is to bring in a long timer from outside. (Seb would be good )

Honda also seem to enjoy working with AT and Gasly and he and Albon are likeable drivers so would be good PR and a good visit for Honda on racedays. Out of the bullpen of RBR but plenty of excitement and dare I say 'fun'.
It may be enough to tip the scales if Honda board are unsure of stay or go.

The two teams can co-exist as they do today, for the same cost, but spread to a more competitive AT. Everyone wins.

[etusch]

Verstappen himself says Albon gives good feedback. I think car is problem rather than Albon. I also don't think Redbull not listening him and I don't think that Redbull has wrong concept. I think they are trying to do right thing but because of corelation issues they had, they can not make car working from start of season. after that they waste their efforts to solve issues instead of making a fast car faster. When they start season with good car even slower than merc they can beat them by developing second part of season.

RBR has outdevelop Mercedes at the end of every season because Mercedes has always had such an advantage in the Championship that after the summer break they are already working 100% on the next year’s car, while the rest of the field is still trying to develop their current one... That’s why it has gave the impression of Red Bull been better at developing in the second half of the season, when in reality Merc has been smart enough to focus on early on the following car and therefore show up with a better car from the start of the season.

if Redbull can be close to merc, merc can not start next season development at mid of current season then merc also can not start season so good. Mercedes is good team yes but when it come a close fight they can not be so good. Contrary of what you claim Mercedes looks better than what they really are, because of what you said

[SmallSoldier]

Verstappen himself says Albon gives good feedback. I think car is problem rather than Albon. I also don't think Redbull not listening him and I don't think that Redbull has wrong concept. I think they are trying to do right thing but because of corelation issues they had, they can not make car working from start of season. after that they waste their efforts to solve issues instead of making a fast car faster. When they start season with good car even slower than merc they can beat them by developing second part of season.

RBR has outdevelop Mercedes at the end of every season because Mercedes has always had such an advantage in the Championship that after the summer break they are already working 100% on the next year’s car, while the rest of the field is still trying to develop their current one... That’s why it has gave the impression of Red Bull been better at developing in the second half of the season, when in reality Merc has been smart enough to focus on early on the following car and therefore show up with a better car from the start of the season.

if Redbull can be close to merc, merc can not start next season development at mid of current season then merc also can not start season so good. Mercedes is good team yes but when it come a close fight they can not be so good. Contrary of what you claim Mercedes looks better than what they really are, because of what you said

But the reality is that they have had for almost all of the hybrid era, enough points to focus on next year car earlier than everyone else... So yes, they are probably already working on their W12 while everyone else is still developing this year’s car


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[godlameroso]

Thing is, next year's car is this year's car with a clipped floor. So all development must go to the bargeboards to makeup for what they lose on the floor.

[McMika98]

RBR has outdevelop Mercedes at the end of every season because Mercedes has always had such an advantage in the Championship that after the summer break they are already working 100% on the next year’s car, while the rest of the field is still trying to develop their current one... That’s why it has gave the impression of Red Bull been better at developing in the second half of the season, when in reality Merc has been smart enough to focus on early on the following car and therefore show up with a better car from the start of the season.

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I guess this is that one season where they can no longer catch up and infact like Ferrari, can't rectify their issue. This year is the same formula as last year basically and will be the same next year. The car last year was decent but lacking in slow corners to Merc, now they reduced the slow speed defeciet but lost all other benefits.
The alpha tauri with same wing concept as last year is able to close the gap tk redbull which speaks volume.
The sooner they ditch the suspension geometry the better. Next year will be another lost season.

[Juzh]

One bad result and people put RB as a midfield car Verstappen was much faster than bottas but couldn't do anything with it, just as no one else could. He was always at 0.5s behind, while bottas couldnt close to more than 0.8-1s to cars ahead. In clean air verstappen would easily dominate mid field just as sainz did instead in early stages.

Sainz barely had a tenth or two advantage over Gasly at the end of race, do you really think Verstappen is only a tenth faster in RB than gasly in AT?

RB was lapping everyone except mercedes just 2 races ago or did everyone forget this already?

[mem]

new face
https://www.pitpass.com/images/circuits ... ugello.gif

2nd DRS zone? Where? After turn 6? .

By the way, this track is a bona-fide tire assassin. It is so incredibly easy to overheat the left side tires. From turn 6 to turn 10 it is pure agony. By turn 12 the tires are screaming in pain, luckily the final chicane is easy flat and the right side tires don't get devastated.

Also due to the nature of the track, it is very physically abrasive to the rears since you're always straddling the line between sliding and gripping.

Some teams will be caught out by how severe the tire wear will be.

if RBR nailed the setup any thing more than 2 tenths off pole sitter in qualy will be bad result imo.
i can see Bottas making some errors in race and Max closing the gap to Hamilton much closer than the previous races.
so my prediction will be Hamilton - Max - Bottas and everyone else get lapped , ofcourse in a normal race.

[mem]

Yeah. I say he stays at AT for till the year is out at minimum. He deserves the RBR seat, if not 2021, it MUST be 2021 at the latest. Whatever Dr. Marko does in-between is up to his discretion.

i think Marko need to go home , camera show many times him keep talking to Max lots of time some kind of toxicity he should let him be (did you heard Max saying i cam to Monza to win) beside this team have much rust from within and discommunication between the 4 bosses which reflects on car performance , one could wounder with all the money throw at the car its kinda of enigma some time it perform some time its embarrassing but i don't see any strange thing the RBR team need a shake up its a must , same about replacing drivers saga. the team needs new administrative system.

[PlatinumZealot]

Communication between the bosses is good at RedBull from my point of view. The aero problems is because the aero department is not gelling as they used to when Newey was full-time. This is why Newey has decided to come back full time for 2021 and 2022. New regs excited him.

[McMika98]

One bad result and people put RB as a midfield car Verstappen was much faster than bottas but couldn't do anything with it, just as no one else could. He was always at 0.5s behind, while bottas couldnt close to more than 0.8-1s to cars ahead. In clean air verstappen would easily dominate mid field just as sainz did instead in early stages.

Sainz barely had a tenth or two advantage over Gasly at the end of race, do you really think Verstappen is only a tenth faster in RB than gasly in AT?

RB was lapping everyone except mercedes just 2 races ago or did everyone forget this already?

Its lot closer to midfield than the top both in quali and race. If anything they have regressed and gone backwards.
Point is the gap to midfield is not big enough to have an advantage during race on low downforce circuits.
Worrying trend is the inability to switch tyres and high wear in recent races. Once they are behind a midfield team they will struggle to overtake as they longer have the luxury, the engine mode ban also restricts this.
Imperative that they improve their launch and traction off corners. Bahrain, Germany, Imola will be nightmare.