[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[Wouter]

Comparable?

Maybe Renault was slightly better. Last year they were super in Monza. If You are correct Lock they will beat Max, but I don’t think that will happen.

Not necessarily. They may not beat Max. We do not know what plans RBR has with the RB16 at Monza, do we? But if Renault is also competitive at Mugello....

Well, we will never know if they would have beaten Max at Monza but given the quali results they were close.
However, if Max would not have had issues with his engine in Mugello, Daniel would likely have been fighting for fourthf. And that track is not made for cars that only suit low downforce tracks.
So they did well at Mugello, or at least Daniel did. Daniel also confirmed they were able to setup the car with high downforce much better than before.
If they manage to pull this through after Sochi, then Alonso will be a force to reckon with next year.. (not so Ocon).

"Alex had a lot of pace by the end of the race."
"He drove towards us at a fast pace, I couldn't answer," Ricciardo recalls.
"I thought to myself: where does that speed come from at Albon all of a sudden?", Said Ricciardo in an interview with Motorsport Total. "By the end of the race, Albon was a lot faster than before. It was quite frustrating for me. Especially in the last sector he made the difference.
He passed me and immediately made sure that I was no longer within DRS range in the last sector, so I couldn't give anything back. "

[Moore77]

https://formulaspy.com/f1/red-bull-addr ... erge-71431

Red Bull addressing Verstappen’s Honda concerns as ‘exit clause’ details emerge

Red Bull say they will explain to Max Verstappen what Honda have done to address their reliability issues, as details of the Dutch driver’s ‘exit clause’ have emerged.

Red Bull may have some cause to want to keep Verstappen calm, as details of an exit clause have emerged. Max signed a three year deal to stay at the team until the end of 2023 but, as normal for top-end teams, performance clauses have been included.

Red Bull and Honda have to hit certain levels of performance, usually defined by points scored, wins achieved or championship position, in order to lock Max in. If they can’t, then Max can break contract without penalty and look elsewhere if he wants. This also works in the other direction, with the team able to drop a driver if they don’t perform to a certain standard.

With Honda’s supply deal with Red Bull coming to an end after 2021, it’s entirely possible that the team may have to look elsewhere for an engine supplier if an extension can’t be agreed upon. This would have huge implications for keeping Verstappen, whose also understood to have a clause in place that his contract is dependent on the team being supplied by Honda.

I couldn't read much into this article, but does anyone infer more than what is written in the article?

[etusch]

These are bullshit. where he will go? It is "more power" thing? Ok go Williams. they have most powerful engine. If it is successful team then he has best he can have, and most promising

[Moore77]

These are bullshit. where he will go? It is "more power" thing? Ok go Williams. they have most powerful engine. If it is successful team then he has best he can have, and most promising

He can potentially sign Mercedes for 2022.

[Big Tea]

https://formulaspy.com/f1/red-bull-addr ... erge-71431

Red Bull addressing Verstappen’s Honda concerns as ‘exit clause’ details emerge

Red Bull say they will explain to Max Verstappen what Honda have done to address their reliability issues, as details of the Dutch driver’s ‘exit clause’ have emerged.

Red Bull may have some cause to want to keep Verstappen calm, as details of an exit clause have emerged. Max signed a three year deal to stay at the team until the end of 2023 but, as normal for top-end teams, performance clauses have been included.

Red Bull and Honda have to hit certain levels of performance, usually defined by points scored, wins achieved or championship position, in order to lock Max in. If they can’t, then Max can break contract without penalty and look elsewhere if he wants. This also works in the other direction, with the team able to drop a driver if they don’t perform to a certain standard.

With Honda’s supply deal with Red Bull coming to an end after 2021, it’s entirely possible that the team may have to look elsewhere for an engine supplier if an extension can’t be agreed upon. This would have huge implications for keeping Verstappen, whose also understood to have a clause in place that his contract is dependent on the team being supplied by Honda.

I couldn't read much into this article, but does anyone infer more than what is written in the article?

May be a lever to 'encourage' Honda to push off a little harder?

[etusch]

These are bullshit. where he will go? It is "more power" thing? Ok go Williams. they have most powerful engine. If it is successful team then he has best he can have, and most promising

He can potentially sign Mercedes for 2022.

will mercedes still be good at that season?
will Hamilton leave and he can be candidate for that seat? he must know these are to make a confident moove.

[etusch]

https://formulaspy.com/f1/red-bull-addr ... erge-71431

Red Bull addressing Verstappen’s Honda concerns as ‘exit clause’ details emerge

Red Bull say they will explain to Max Verstappen what Honda have done to address their reliability issues, as details of the Dutch driver’s ‘exit clause’ have emerged.

Red Bull may have some cause to want to keep Verstappen calm, as details of an exit clause have emerged. Max signed a three year deal to stay at the team until the end of 2023 but, as normal for top-end teams, performance clauses have been included.

Red Bull and Honda have to hit certain levels of performance, usually defined by points scored, wins achieved or championship position, in order to lock Max in. If they can’t, then Max can break contract without penalty and look elsewhere if he wants. This also works in the other direction, with the team able to drop a driver if they don’t perform to a certain standard.

With Honda’s supply deal with Red Bull coming to an end after 2021, it’s entirely possible that the team may have to look elsewhere for an engine supplier if an extension can’t be agreed upon. This would have huge implications for keeping Verstappen, whose also understood to have a clause in place that his contract is dependent on the team being supplied by Honda.

I couldn't read much into this article, but does anyone infer more than what is written in the article?

May be a lever to 'encourage' Honda to push off a little harder?

how? we know that they would introduce spec 2 but development freezed not only for this season but next season too

[Big Tea]

https://formulaspy.com/f1/red-bull-addr ... erge-71431

Red Bull addressing Verstappen’s Honda concerns as ‘exit clause’ details emerge




I couldn't read much into this article, but does anyone infer more than what is written in the article?

May be a lever to 'encourage' Honda to push off a little harder?

how? we know that they would introduce spec 2 but development freezed not only for this season but next season too

Push the existing one harder rather than protect it

[Revs84]

https://formulaspy.com/f1/red-bull-addr ... erge-71431

Red Bull addressing Verstappen’s Honda concerns as ‘exit clause’ details emerge




I couldn't read much into this article, but does anyone infer more than what is written in the article?

May be a lever to 'encourage' Honda to push off a little harder?

how? we know that they would introduce spec 2 but development freezed not only for this season but next season too

That's not entirely correct.

Honda, like all other engine suppliers, will be able to introduce a new spec for their ICE, TC, MGU-H and Fuel/Oil in 2021, 2022 and 2023. They will also have one MGU-K, CE and ES upgrade between 2020 - 2021 and 2022 - 2023. It's only after, that engines will be completely frozen, bar reliability upgrades.

The new rules don't prohibit engine development as such, but they do limit manufacturers from introducing new upgrades during the season.

There are strict restrictions to usage of test benches though, so it remains to be seen how much will reliability be impacted if manufacturers will continue to target aggressive engine development.

[godlameroso]

They can make all the changes they want for the engine next year, what they can't do is develop in season. So all the steps they would have introduced this year will have no track validation, only dyno validation. Fuel also can be changed, all things can be changed for next season so expect a half second step on the engine side alone. Where manufacturers typically gain ~.2 over the season then again .2 over the winter, instead the developments will be consolidated. One can only hope Mercedes doesn't have a similar step over the winter as they've had this year.

The engine is less than 3 tenths down as is, the rest of the gap comes from the chassis. Next year the chassis will need to compensate for the aero parts it is losing after this year. I'm guessing we return to 2019 levels of performance next year, hopefully not similar gaps.

[Sieper]

Sochi. Max was .2 behind Hamilton and .4 or something in front of Bottas last year. This year even with party mode ban merc will be in front with both guys. What has happened as clearly a big step was Made. Too big.

[godlameroso]

Sochi. Max was .2 behind Hamilton and .4 or something in front of Bottas last year. This year even with party mode ban merc will be in front with both guys. What has happened as clearly a big step was Made. Too big.

I'm very curious to see how RB does on this track. It has been traditionally been a poor track for them, so if they're close as they were in Mugello we can be sure of a step forward.

Sector 3 I expect to be especially difficult if things have not improved.

[Big Tea]

These are bullshit. where he will go? It is "more power" thing? Ok go Williams. they have most powerful engine. If it is successful team then he has best he can have, and most promising

You know, My immediate thought was Max is going nowhere, it's Merc or Red Bull, but then I had one of those 'what if' moments.

As it stands, Max is on 110 points, 47 ahead of his team mate, who is just 2 points in front of Stroll at RP.
(He could easily have 20 odd more had things not gone wrong)

Where would Max be if he was at RP, and what would Red Bull have had Max not been the No1 driver?


More to the point, where would he be if RP had already morphed into AM and had the backing and finances to develop more quickly, and attract the required people? Ahead of Red Bull without Max?

Maybe my initial thought of 'there is no where but RedBull' is not so sharp after all?
What you think?

[Revs84]

These are bullshit. where he will go? It is "more power" thing? Ok go Williams. they have most powerful engine. If it is successful team then he has best he can have, and most promising

You know, My immediate thought was Max is going nowhere, it's Merc or Red Bull, but then I had one of those 'what if' moments.

As it stands, Max is on 110 points, 47 ahead of his team mate, who is just 2 points in front of Stroll at RP.
(He could easily have 20 odd more had things not gone wrong)

Where would Max be if he was at RP, and what would Red Bull have had Max not been the No1 driver?


More to the point, where would he be if RP had already morphed into AM and had the backing and finances to develop more quickly, and attract the required people? Ahead of Red Bull without Max?

Maybe my initial thought of 'there is no where but RedBull' is not so sharp after all?
What you think?

Although several people here won't agree with me, and they have every right to do so, I rate both Stroll and Perez as average drivers.

Yet, in quite a few cases they were very much at Alex's heels and even in front. And since I rate Max very highly, I wouldn't be surprised if he would be able to have the same pace in the RP20 as he has in the RB16.

I suspect he would still be behind both W11s though, so as it stands, I don't see much reason for him to jump to the Aston Martin ship. What will happen next year is still something we'll need to find out though.

Where he definitely would want to be at this point is in that W11. However, with Lewis probably signing a multi-year deal and Russell (again probably) replacing Bottas for 2022, I doubt that there will be any space for him anytime soon.

With Ocon trailing behind Ricciardo, the only situation in which I see Max moving to Mercedes would be in case Lewis had to retire / stop delivering and Russell not delivering at Mercedes as expected.

So as it stands, since Max wants to be in a winning car, his best bet is probably to stay put. We can pick this discussion up again once a decision has been announced by Honda though

[Manoah2u]

How about Max alongside Alonso @ Renault