Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
I did wonder about that, especially with the cost cap regulations on the way. Red Bull could tout the the engine badging to the highest bidder.
RBR don’t have engine building experience but people like Cosworth and Ilmor do and have said they’d return to F1 in a heartbeat if the right partner appeared.Jaisonas wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 12:21And what are RBR gonna do with their IP? Put it on a shelf? They have no infrastructure or knowledge for engine manufacturing, not mentioning that said IP is worth many millions.Revs84 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 12:11Abiteboul just mentioned very recently that partnering with Red Bull is extremely unlikely.
Any thoughts on Honda selling their IP to RBR? I doubt that will happen, and if it does, I doubt it will be cheap.
But a possibility nevertheless, given RBR will be allowed to spend such money with the current financial regulations.
The group made a €700m loss in the first half of 2019. So far, in the first half of 2020, that loss is €7bn. If the rate stays the same, they run out of cash in Q1 2021 (after burning through €5bn of French state loans already arranged)._cerber1 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 12:05Renault is not going to leave, their new head is an F1 fan, budgets are cut, engines are frozen, they are satisfied with everything.Craigy wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 11:53It will be interesting to see if any of the other manufacturers leave. Renault's financials look abysmal at the moment and it's likely the firm cannot survive without state aid which will be problematic in terms of EU regulation, and may or may not allow for F1 spending.
If F1 does go down to two engine makers [Mercedes/Ferrari], and there isn't another manufacturer waiting in the wings, I sort of expect Cosworth to be drafted in by FOM to become the PU-maker of last resort, which would require a huge investment and a revision of the rules to make it simpler.
It's Appendix 9 of the sporting regs, for anyone who wants to read them. https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -04-07.pdfdfegan358 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 12:06I just can’t see Renault being interested in supplying Red bull again. Fascinating times. Wasn’t aware it was in the rules that Renault had to supply red bull again if necessary.
Some head scratching going on around red bull now, this was supposed to be the partnership that could propel red bull to titles again.
This is a very exciting and dramatic. But not desireable in this formula. Fuel is liquid gold. High quality energy that must be burned to extract every Joule. Not a good idea to dump it into a low efficiency process even if it is in excess.GhostF1 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 01:50On the same lines of this, there was a hinted at theory going around that Honda (because of the use cylinder cutting often and aggressively) were at the point that they could use excess fuel and dump it into cylinders that are not currently firing which would combust in the exhaust and drive the turbine which would either keep the turbo on song without MGU-H intervention OR have the MGU-H in generator mode and this would boost electrical generation. Obviously this behaviour is prevalent while cornering for the extra saved energy to be used elsewhere.gruntguru wrote: ↑01 Oct 2020, 23:41@Craigy & godlameroso. I appreciate all those points - that's why I said "in an ideal world".
There is another factor following on from godlameroso's post. The race fuel allocation is ample at most tracks (it wouldn't be ample if the flow rate was unlimited). There is a small benefit in starting with less-than-full tanks. There is a bigger benefit in being able to use more of the fuel allocation - effectively. This is another reason to use inefficient strategies like electric supercharger and "retarded timing exhaust harvest".
Worth remembering - over the course of the race:
Total drivetrain energy to the tyres = (Total fuel energy burned x average PU conversion efficiency) + (Braking energy harvested x recycling efficiency).
Cyril has a big smile on his face now.
Yip, that's what I said earlier. All the cost, none of the opportunity to develop or test it this year or barely next.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 13:59I bet if FIA had allowed development of the engines Honda would have stayed. honda basically will take up their toy and go back home to tinker with it. The PU will live on inside of a laboratory in Sakura.
re: your Option 2 -- The maximum Renault are allowed to charge by regulation is €12m for an engine supply. It's in the sporting regs.PowerandtheGlory wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 13:20Redbull’s options;
Option 1- new road car manufacturer gets persuaded to come in- Low chance and they’d need 3-4 years
Option 2- buy engines from Renault badged as something else and huge cost as Renault might be giving another team a chance of beating them and losing constructor’s revenue so they are going to ask for 40million per team to make it worthwhile.. “Nissan Infiniti redbull”
Option 3- partner with Cosworth like with the Valkyrie and go it alone- build their own engine and spend tons.,,- low chance
Option 4- somehow buy honda’s f1 assets and then keep running them and build up a power train team...
Until something better comes along..
Option 5- cry into your sugar puffs as Max is going to leave now..
