General Honda F1 Topic

[RS200E]

Well. I do not think that Honda left F1 because of the development of a new direction, I think deep down she was just disappointed in this circus. We heard (read) that Honda made inquiries with the FIA, but they were not allowed to implement their solutions, remember the Japanese GP 2018, when Honda was forced to return software (although it was initially allowed), which was changed for reliability reasons, at the same time we see how the FIA ​​allows Mercedes to use 5 years of burning oil in cylinders, which is a direct violation of the regulations, we see how they allowed the use of DAS, others simply could not think that such a system could be legal. I am sure that the current superiority of PU Mercedes is due to another gray zone and the patronage of the FIA. Honda is too proud and perhaps too diplomatic to name the real reason for leaving.
At the same time, Honda announces its retirement from F1 due to a changing strategy and immediately renews its participation in the Indycar, where conventional engines are used and is only going to introduce KERS, which was abandoned in F1 almost 10 years ago.
Well, this is our world, instead of facing the truth and solving problems, it is better to deceive yourself with a pseudo-positive strategy and write a thousand unnecessary, deceitful, hypocritical identical press releases. (I'm talking about F1 and the FIA)

A massive corporation like Honda doesn't need or deserve a normal person to make excuses for them. They failed again in the pinnacle of motorsport. They know that, everyone else should too.

That really depends on what it was they wanted to achieve.

TBH, I also think they have realised that despite throwing money at it for several years, they are not at the same level as Merc, and are not likely to be during the life of this engine spec.

However, they have come in with a new design, which in reality was poor, modified it and stepped up each year.

It now appears to be a fine engine, and if Merc (team, not engine) was not there could well be in contention for the championship.

A runner does not stop because he knows he cannot beat the better guy infront of him, but when it stops being fun.

Honda seem to have hit the point where more fun means far more cash than they are willing ti invest, as they do not see appropriate returns on it.

Failed? yes failed to win the championship, but not to build a very good engine of a completely different type in a very intense environment with many artificial limitations placed on them (not them individually, but all F1 constructors)

If I was Honda, I would be proud (but very sad)

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

It's about time people realised that Honda don't deserve any support in F1. Go ahead and support their Super GT or some US based category, but they can't cut it at the top. They are full of excuses.

As for the question of did they achieve what they set out to do... Have a look at articles or think back to yourself about their comments. I seriously doubt at any point they thought spending so much in F1 from when they joined until they leave in 2021, they thought or said a few wins will do. <personal stuff removed> But in reality they are massive failures.

A day late but not a dollar short -Honda.

[Revs84]

A massive corporation like Honda doesn't need or deserve a normal person to make excuses for them. They failed again in the pinnacle of motorsport. They know that, everyone else should too.

That really depends on what it was they wanted to achieve.

TBH, I also think they have realised that despite throwing money at it for several years, they are not at the same level as Merc, and are not likely to be during the life of this engine spec.

However, they have come in with a new design, which in reality was poor, modified it and stepped up each year.

It now appears to be a fine engine, and if Merc (team, not engine) was not there could well be in contention for the championship.

A runner does not stop because he knows he cannot beat the better guy infront of him, but when it stops being fun.

Honda seem to have hit the point where more fun means far more cash than they are willing ti invest, as they do not see appropriate returns on it.

Failed? yes failed to win the championship, but not to build a very good engine of a completely different type in a very intense environment with many artificial limitations placed on them (not them individually, but all F1 constructors)

If I was Honda, I would be proud (but very sad)

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

It's about time people realised that Honda don't deserve any support in F1. Go ahead and support their Super GT or some US based category, but they can't cut it at the top. They are full of excuses.

As for the question of did they achieve what they set out to do... Have a look at articles or think back to yourself about their comments. I seriously doubt at any point they thought spending so much in F1 from when they joined until they leave in 2021, they thought or said a few wins will do. ..... But in reality they are massive failures.

A day late but not a dollar short -Honda.

I'll be waiting for you to show us which excuses they have come up with

[anthonyfa18]

Well if u look at super GT in Japan, there is one nsx that runs with team mugen and is also Sponsored by redbull. So can it be mugen will take over honda f1 program for the next few years.

[GhostF1]

A massive corporation like Honda doesn't need or deserve a normal person to make excuses for them. They failed again in the pinnacle of motorsport. They know that, everyone else should too.

That really depends on what it was they wanted to achieve.

TBH, I also think they have realised that despite throwing money at it for several years, they are not at the same level as Merc, and are not likely to be during the life of this engine spec.

However, they have come in with a new design, which in reality was poor, modified it and stepped up each year.

It now appears to be a fine engine, and if Merc (team, not engine) was not there could well be in contention for the championship.

A runner does not stop because he knows he cannot beat the better guy infront of him, but when it stops being fun.

Honda seem to have hit the point where more fun means far more cash than they are willing ti invest, as they do not see appropriate returns on it.

Failed? yes failed to win the championship, but not to build a very good engine of a completely different type in a very intense environment with many artificial limitations placed on them (not them individually, but all F1 constructors)

If I was Honda, I would be proud (but very sad)

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

It's about time people realised that Honda don't deserve any support in F1. Go ahead and support their Super GT or some US based category, but they can't cut it at the top. They are full of excuses.

As for the question of did they achieve what they set out to do... Have a look at articles or think back to yourself about their comments. I seriously doubt at any point they thought spending so much in F1 from when they joined until they leave in 2021, they thought or said a few wins will do. ..... But in reality they are massive failures.

A day late but not a dollar short -Honda.

Worst engine on the grid...
Total nonsense backed up with a clear lack of understanding of how F1 works and how team performances reflect their cars and power unit.

[hollus]

It would be nice if the discussion centered about Honda and not what member x thinks of members y and z... please keep personal attacks, hard of soft, out of the forum

[Pany]

Renault wanted to put redbul in crisis and then buy their team. This was the strategy and did not work. That is why they treated AT so badly last year together, they were angry beause could not buy any of redbull and AT engineers. Since then, never won again, and could not deliver promises they made about fighting for podiums and titles in 3 years timeNow they have some deal with mercedes and are starting to deliver, but in this momento the entire circus is under question, so the future is black

[Mogster]

Well if u look at super GT in Japan, there is one nsx that runs with team mugen and is also Sponsored by redbull. So can it be mugen will take over honda f1 program for the next few years.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/media/re ... 64299/full

Someone would have to give Mugen the $100m or so a year for them to do that. That’s assuming Honda would release the engine. I’m sure Red Bull are exploring these sorts of options.

[RS200E]

That really depends on what it was they wanted to achieve.

TBH, I also think they have realised that despite throwing money at it for several years, they are not at the same level as Merc, and are not likely to be during the life of this engine spec.

However, they have come in with a new design, which in reality was poor, modified it and stepped up each year.

It now appears to be a fine engine, and if Merc (team, not engine) was not there could well be in contention for the championship.

A runner does not stop because he knows he cannot beat the better guy infront of him, but when it stops being fun.

Honda seem to have hit the point where more fun means far more cash than they are willing ti invest, as they do not see appropriate returns on it.

Failed? yes failed to win the championship, but not to build a very good engine of a completely different type in a very intense environment with many artificial limitations placed on them (not them individually, but all F1 constructors)

If I was Honda, I would be proud (but very sad)

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

It's about time people realised that Honda don't deserve any support in F1. Go ahead and support their Super GT or some US based category, but they can't cut it at the top. They are full of excuses.

As for the question of did they achieve what they set out to do... Have a look at articles or think back to yourself about their comments. I seriously doubt at any point they thought spending so much in F1 from when they joined until they leave in 2021, they thought or said a few wins will do. ..... But in reality they are massive failures.

A day late but not a dollar short -Honda.

Worst engine on the grid...
Total nonsense backed up with a clear lack of understanding of how F1 works and how team performances reflect their cars and power unit.

Oops sorry did I hit a nerve. Triggered! Be careful when calling someone out someone you don't know when you're triggered about how knowledgeable they are. I've been an F1 fan since the early 90s. Not just watching the races. I know enough to have a solid opinion on this matter, which isn't hard as Honda have a very clear history in modern F1.

[etusch]

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

lets do this with mercedes. If there were not max dnf's and two Bottas at mercedes Verstappen were best candidate of wdc. Even with that 3 dnf still he was candidate of wdc. Where would be mercedes if ham isn't there.
Brilliant.

[Big Tea]

A massive corporation like Honda doesn't need or deserve a normal person to make excuses for them. They failed again in the pinnacle of motorsport. They know that, everyone else should too.

That really depends on what it was they wanted to achieve.

TBH, I also think they have realised that despite throwing money at it for several years, they are not at the same level as Merc, and are not likely to be during the life of this engine spec.

However, they have come in with a new design, which in reality was poor, modified it and stepped up each year.

It now appears to be a fine engine, and if Merc (team, not engine) was not there could well be in contention for the championship.

A runner does not stop because he knows he cannot beat the better guy infront of him, but when it stops being fun.

Honda seem to have hit the point where more fun means far more cash than they are willing ti invest, as they do not see appropriate returns on it.

Failed? yes failed to win the championship, but not to build a very good engine of a completely different type in a very intense environment with many artificial limitations placed on them (not them individually, but all F1 constructors)

If I was Honda, I would be proud (but very sad)

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

It's about time people realised that Honda don't deserve any support in F1. Go ahead and support their Super GT or some US based category, but they can't cut it at the top. They are full of excuses.

As for the question of did they achieve what they set out to do... Have a look at articles or think back to yourself about their comments. I seriously doubt at any point they thought spending so much in F1 from when they joined until they leave in 2021, they thought or said a few wins will do. <personal stuff removed> But in reality they are massive failures.

A day late but not a dollar short -Honda.

OK, by your own standards.


Total points all teams total wins all teams

Honda --------251---------2

Renault ------205---------0

Ferrari -------78 -------- 0

So how would you rate the others?



Merc is in a field of its own

[McG]

That really depends on what it was they wanted to achieve.

TBH, I also think they have realised that despite throwing money at it for several years, they are not at the same level as Merc, and are not likely to be during the life of this engine spec.

However, they have come in with a new design, which in reality was poor, modified it and stepped up each year.

It now appears to be a fine engine, and if Merc (team, not engine) was not there could well be in contention for the championship.

A runner does not stop because he knows he cannot beat the better guy infront of him, but when it stops being fun.

Honda seem to have hit the point where more fun means far more cash than they are willing ti invest, as they do not see appropriate returns on it.

Failed? yes failed to win the championship, but not to build a very good engine of a completely different type in a very intense environment with many artificial limitations placed on them (not them individually, but all F1 constructors)

If I was Honda, I would be proud (but very sad)

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

It's about time people realised that Honda don't deserve any support in F1. Go ahead and support their Super GT or some US based category, but they can't cut it at the top. They are full of excuses.

As for the question of did they achieve what they set out to do... Have a look at articles or think back to yourself about their comments. I seriously doubt at any point they thought spending so much in F1 from when they joined until they leave in 2021, they thought or said a few wins will do. <personal stuff removed> But in reality they are massive failures.

A day late but not a dollar short -Honda.

OK, by your own standards.


Total points all teams total wins all teams

Honda --------251---------2

Renault ------205---------0

Ferrari -------78 -------- 0

So how would you rate the others?



Merc is in a field of its own

Please allow me to interject in this discussion.

Firstly I would say that makes it worse that Honda as a combination of the two Red Bull teams are ahead of the combined other engine powered teams. Why? Because they are pulling out, again, when there seems to be something good happening.

Secondly, actually, that's a false positive you have displayed because Mercedes are not in a field of their own. They are in F1 along with everyone else.

Lastly as RS2000 said, the Red Bull is a very good car, it usually is. It won with a Renault PU too when Renault were quite far behind in the PU stakes. So it's not likely Honda have had any significant relevance on how Red Bull have won their races.


@etusch

But it's not like that is it. We have two great drivers being Max and Lewis. Two great cars being Red Bull and Mercedes. 1 great engine being the Mercedes.

See where the difference is?

[etusch]

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

It's about time people realised that Honda don't deserve any support in F1. Go ahead and support their Super GT or some US based category, but they can't cut it at the top. They are full of excuses.

As for the question of did they achieve what they set out to do... Have a look at articles or think back to yourself about their comments. I seriously doubt at any point they thought spending so much in F1 from when they joined until they leave in 2021, they thought or said a few wins will do. <personal stuff removed> But in reality they are massive failures.

A day late but not a dollar short -Honda.

OK, by your own standards.


Total points all teams total wins all teams

Honda --------251---------2

Renault ------205---------0

Ferrari -------78 -------- 0

So how would you rate the others?



Merc is in a field of its own

Please allow me to interject in this discussion.

Firstly I would say that makes it worse that Honda as a combination of the two Red Bull teams are ahead of the combined other engine powered teams. Why? Because they are pulling out, again, when there seems to be something good happening.

Secondly, actually, that's a false positive you have displayed because Mercedes are not in a field of their own. They are in F1 along with everyone else.

Lastly as RS2000 said, the Red Bull is a very good car, it usually is. It won with a Renault PU too when Renault were quite far behind in the PU stakes. So it's not likely Honda have had any significant relevance on how Red Bull have won their races.


@etusch

But it's not like that is it. We have two great drivers being Max and Lewis. Two great cars being Red Bull and Mercedes. 1 great engine being the Mercedes.

See where the difference is?

I see but you miss difference between mercedes chassis / Redbull chassis. You are talking like cars has same performance but engines makes difference. Everyone accepts mercedes has more power this year and unrealistically more power but perfomance difference is not coming from engine only.
I think it is obvious from Redbull's sochi radio talks (0.6 thing) They said it was clipping so it was not because of ice. If Redbull could be planted as much as mercedes maybe they can go more aggressive on mgu-k usage for regenaration. Or something left them lesser efficient on electric power. Whatever, at the end Honda is second best or 5hp down compared to Renault accordng to Renault pu topic. And even in this case they did great job. They started everything later than everyone and lack of kers experience, then they worked with wrong partner pulling them down instead of support, fia barriers, journalist's bad comments and news, driver's bad atittudes and still they are there.

[Revs84]

That really depends on what it was they wanted to achieve.

TBH, I also think they have realised that despite throwing money at it for several years, they are not at the same level as Merc, and are not likely to be during the life of this engine spec.

However, they have come in with a new design, which in reality was poor, modified it and stepped up each year.

It now appears to be a fine engine, and if Merc (team, not engine) was not there could well be in contention for the championship.

A runner does not stop because he knows he cannot beat the better guy infront of him, but when it stops being fun.

Honda seem to have hit the point where more fun means far more cash than they are willing ti invest, as they do not see appropriate returns on it.

Failed? yes failed to win the championship, but not to build a very good engine of a completely different type in a very intense environment with many artificial limitations placed on them (not them individually, but all F1 constructors)

If I was Honda, I would be proud (but very sad)

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

It's about time people realised that Honda don't deserve any support in F1. Go ahead and support their Super GT or some US based category, but they can't cut it at the top. They are full of excuses.

As for the question of did they achieve what they set out to do... Have a look at articles or think back to yourself about their comments. I seriously doubt at any point they thought spending so much in F1 from when they joined until they leave in 2021, they thought or said a few wins will do. ..... But in reality they are massive failures.

A day late but not a dollar short -Honda.

I'll be waiting for you to show us which excuses they have come up with

RS200E still waiting for your answer here.

Would also be great to hear your logic on how they are the worst engine on the grid. Please also post some facts to back this up.

To me it seems clear that these comments were made to instigate a reaction from the fans over here who are still disappointed by Honda's news. Never saw you around before so that's not cool at all.

[Big Tea]

It's not a very good engine. It's probably still the worst and is flattered by the excellent Red Bull chassis and Max. Don't bother mentioning the Alpha Tauri win because that was a fluke and you'll notice AT are 7th in the championship. Take away the fluke win and AT would be way back. Take away Max and put another Albon in there and where would Honda be.

It's about time people realised that Honda don't deserve any support in F1. Go ahead and support their Super GT or some US based category, but they can't cut it at the top. They are full of excuses.

As for the question of did they achieve what they set out to do... Have a look at articles or think back to yourself about their comments. I seriously doubt at any point they thought spending so much in F1 from when they joined until they leave in 2021, they thought or said a few wins will do. <personal stuff removed> But in reality they are massive failures.

A day late but not a dollar short -Honda.

OK, by your own standards.


Total points all teams total wins all teams

Honda --------251---------2

Renault ------205---------0

Ferrari -------78 -------- 0

So how would you rate the others?



Merc is in a field of its own

Please allow me to interject in this discussion.

Firstly I would say that makes it worse that Honda as a combination of the two Red Bull teams are ahead of the combined other engine powered teams. Why? Because they are pulling out, again, when there seems to be something good happening.

Secondly, actually, that's a false positive you have displayed because Mercedes are not in a field of their own. They are in F1 along with everyone else.

Lastly as RS2000 said, the Red Bull is a very good car, it usually is. It won with a Renault PU too when Renault were quite far behind in the PU stakes. So it's not likely Honda have had any significant relevance on how Red Bull have won their races.


@etusch

But it's not like that is it. We have two great drivers being Max and Lewis. Two great cars being Red Bull and Mercedes. 1 great engine being the Mercedes.

See where the difference is?

That makes the other engines look even worse in comparison. I think it better to discount them, but if you insist
Mercedes engine cars are at 470 (+15 deducted for a non engine related offence)

Even worse when Williams have the grand total of Zero

[Lock2nl]

The Indycar Honda engines and support are just down to Honda US, the engines are built and supported by HPD in the US. the F1 engines are prepared by HRD Sakura in Japan, Honda’s global R&D base. It’s an important distinction. It’s similar to Team Dynamics BTCC engines being prepared by Honda Swindon, it’s got very little to do with Honda global.

Not really. It is all still Honda. If Honda states F1 is not helping them to on the road to fuel cells and EV's, neither does Indy. Maybe the excuse is that finances are separated, but it still garantuees a double message. Not a very strong message.
If the really wanted to show the world they were going to go green, they would have dumped both. But Honda does not care about going green. They just needed money to stay in the car business. That is why F1 was dumped.

Not really. The US, after Asia, is Honda's biggest market. They have a great reputation there and people appreciate their efforts and participation.

They are also extremely successful in IndyCar, but more importantly, it is much more commercially viable for them as (if I'm not mistaken) they get paid for supplying engines.

Not to mention the fact that in the US gasoline is quite cheap and I see most people being reluctant to switch to electric cars for a very long time.

Honda were one of the very first manufacturers who dreamt and pushed towards becoming carbon neutral - way before many other manufacturers, so saying they don't care about going green is a big, fat and unfair lie.

As far as I know, E85 still uses 15% gasoline. How many street car Hondas are using Ethanol? As far as I know, not a single Honda supports ethanol based fuels. So yeah, they dreamt of it...

You said it yourself, the US is their second biggest market. Money talks. And since no American wants a fuel that is more expensive and less powerful, using ethanol in Indy hasn't changed much did it?