[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[rogazilla]

I don't think Honda will sell the IP but I can see setup Mugen as a skunk works team where Red Bull foot the bill for the ICE and RB-T keeps up the software, ERS system development going forward.

[Marti_EF3]

If they bring Mugen, and the 120m they won't be able to spend on the team, is thrown to the PU developing, saving a lot of costs to Honda. They will continue helping "throught the shadows" spending much less than now. And RB will be able to keep a lot of staff on the PU department. That would be kind of a fusion to be a true works team like Merc, Renault and Ferrari are. I like the idea, but I'm not sure about something like that happening...

[Marti_EF3]

That looks pretty good...!

[Datco]

Why on earth did they not have these discussions before announcing they leaving. 2022 is still far away, they could have waited if some sort of partnership was a possibility.
Why would they sell their IP. They were very strict on letting any outsiders in.
Besides I am sure they don't want another Brawn repeat

[Marti_EF3]

Why on earth did they not have these discussions before announcing they leaving. 2022 is still far away, they could have waited if some sort of partnership was a possibility.
Why would they sell their IP. They were very strict on letting any outsiders in.
Besides I am sure they don't want another Brawn repeat

You can't be sure if that was on their plan before, and that was a solution for sharing efforts, money and stop Honda to leave like in 2008. But well, we won't know and that's only a rumour

[JordanMugen]

Why on earth did they not have these discussions before announcing they leaving.

Because they are Honda, that's what they do. They didn't discuss to continue with Mugen-Honda V10s with McLaren for '93 onwards either.

Then in 2000, Jordan with Mugen, BAR with Honda -- completely illogical.

Why would they sell their IP. They were very strict on letting any outsiders in.

That's why Mugen is used, as Mugen is permitted to access Honda IP.

[ispano6]

It is possible since Mugen and RedBull have the SuperGT500 NSX tie-up. It just seems more logical to me to bring Acura to the forefront since Mugen as a brand is somewhat obscure, but I suppose it goes both ways.

[TakataDomeNSX]

As well as Super Formula and I really hope the F1 tie up can happen. Although I have to say I don't see what Mugen brings to the table, if Red Bull is bringing all the finances, why should it allow Mugen to have labeling rights? F1 is always about the money. In terms of Mugen having access to Honda F1 tech that's not a given unless Honda wants it that way. I can see Honda F1 personnel moving to Mugen for this tie up, but anyway one can hope but there's no real reason to have Mugen involved at this moment, and Mugen's own car mod market is shrinking.

[Manoah2u]

Why on earth did they not have these discussions before announcing they leaving. 2022 is still far away, they could have waited if some sort of partnership was a possibility.
Why would they sell their IP. They were very strict on letting any outsiders in.
Besides I am sure they don't want another Brawn repeat

I think this is rather commercial games too.
All attention is now on Honda, leaving RedBull. RedBull gets all the attention, and Honda gets all the attention.
Everybody's talking about it, all the media outlets, etcetera.

Then, they come to an 'interesting' conclusion after talking intensively together and RedBull get 'rewarded' with the efforts of Honda through a re-branding as 'Mugen' or 'Acura' (first much more likely), and the result is that it's actually simply still Honda continueing but since they don't expect to beat Mercedes, there is no damage. In Indy they'll continue as Honda, in F1 as Mugen.

It reminds a bit also of Renault changing to Alpine. The enstone team is by all it's means still Renault, but they're now called Alpine. If they c**k up, no harm to Renault. If they do, still the glory.

Like Newey still working for RedBull, but then also not really.

We will see.

This will first be milked out as long as it can before it really starts losing steam, and then suddenly people get confirmed with f.e. the Mugen deal, and it's oooooh woooooo nobody saw thaaaaat coming. Milk it out a few weeks more, and then we'll be focusing on 2021.

[saviour stivala]

Honda will not repeat the Brawn of 2008.

[Sieper]

To be honoust, I don’t think it is a given at all that Honda continues to have any involvement after 2021.

[_cerber1]

Red Bull is assuming a deficit of 10 to 15 hp compared to market leader Mercedes, Honda's development worker Ilmor more likely from 25 to 30. Marko still sees a need to catch up: "Clipping starts earlier with us. So we don't have full power over the whole Straight. The longer the straight, the greater the disadvantage. " Explanation: The Honda V6 turbo starts charging too early on the straights. Then in the end the 163 hp from the electric motor are missing.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ernativen/

[TNTHead]

Red Bull is assuming a deficit of 10 to 15 hp compared to market leader Mercedes, Honda's development worker Ilmor more likely from 25 to 30. Marko still sees a need to catch up: "Clipping starts earlier with us. So we don't have full power over the whole Straight. The longer the straight, the greater the disadvantage. " Explanation: The Honda V6 turbo starts charging too early on the straights. Then in the end the 163 hp from the electric motor are missing.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ernativen/

Thanks for sharing. Another interesting part of the interview with Marko:
"In addition to the four alternatives mentioned for the engine, there is another option. According to Marko, an exit is also conceivable: "If we can't find a competitive solution, that's an option." That would also explain the Verstappen topic: "Max has a competitive engine in the contract. But that's also our premise. Without an engine with which we can win the World Cup, the project is not interesting for us."

According to Marko, it would be best if the FIA, as a reaction to the Honda exit, could bring itself to bring forward the new engine regulations planned for 2026. FIA President Jean Todt confirms that with the introduction of e-fuels in 2023, one would be independent of the engine architecture.

[adrianjordan]

Horner reported by BBC as saying that Max does NOT have an engine clause in his contract.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54469796

[tangodjango]

Horner reported by BBC as saying that Max does NOT have an engine clause in his contract.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54469796

I think Horner said there was no Honda clause while Marko said there was a competitive engine clause. Note that Red Bull often do this one person says A and another says B so it really doesn't mean anything. In any case if they get some sort of Honda support through 2022 I can see Max staying for 22 just to see the new regs competitive order. After that it's anyone's guess what will happen. As he said we just have to wait and see.