[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:
11 Oct 2020, 23:06
Verstappen lost the race in the second stint, on the first stint he was pretty level with Hamilton, looks like the Red Bull was better on the soft tire than it was on the medium. Verstappen pitted on lap 17, and at the start of the stint he was hanging with Hamilton, however about halfway into the stint, perhaps it was lapped traffic, or tire graining, or a balance issue, Verstappen's pace became erratic. The overall pace may have been there, but Hamilton was metronomic, absolutely consistent laps with out any hint of degradation. Perhaps the rears started wearing faster than the fronts creating a shift in balance? Then on the restart, DAS and Hamilton managed to use the engine power and warmer tires to get away, and from there it was race over.

Take aways from the race, the RB16 chassis has improved, but DAS was a big help on the restart, will be interesting to see Mercedes have to do without it next year. To a certain extent, I feel that some of the pace drop off was the power unit running out of ERS. The Mercedes power unit has incredible ERS stamina and can work their chassis can still work the tires better. Those two details make the difference vs the RB16 which is now on the verge of being the premier chassis on the grid. I really hope Honda can deliver next year, compared to this year, I expect a very decent step forward from them because they've had an entire year to develop with their brand new cylinder plating.

No point in worrying about 2022 yet when 2021 hasn't even started. There's a lot of data to go over, lots of details to iron out this year which will be critical from a chassis point next year. They are actually a little closer than they were at this point last year. I hope that the aero work from now until the end of the season will be on what can carry over to next year. We already know Hamilton won, he'd have to DNF 3 times in a row, and it's unlikely as it hasn't even happened once this year. Verstappen can still beat Bottas, so there's still something to play for.

Next race is Portimao, completely unknown track to F1, not even testing has happened here, and it's a recent track that most of the grid hasn't had much experience with. The simulator will be used heavily to prepare as best as possible. I've never been to this track either, my knowledge of it is from laser scanned tracks. I don't know how accurate the scans are as I never had the real thing to compare it to. From what I can see, the corners that matter are the ones that Red Bull is now particularly strong in, and should be stronger once they dial in the new package. It seems that the nature of the track puts the acceleration zones either downhill or uphill, and the end of the main straight is a sharp downhill, so maybe engine power while important is less relevant than in Nürburgring. This track is also shorter, I expect lap times similar to Mugello.

Dreadful race from Albon, retiring the car after destroying Kvyat's front wing in the worst possible place probably doesn't feel very nice.
One correction. Nurburgring is not a power track. Main reason why RB and Ferrari fared well.

closed1001
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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they were as quick Mercedes in the first 2 sectors but losing 0.3 each lap in sector 3

hasika
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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https://www.as-web.jp/f1/634174?all
Tanabe said its the flying stone that damaged the cooler, then they decided to retire the car to avoid damage to the PU.

DChemTech
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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GhostF1 wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 02:12
Definitely a poor race from Alex. Too impatient this time, and ruined his own race.

Although the reason for his retirement has been clarified:

https://www.pitpass.com/68263/Eifel-GP- ... s-Red-Bull

"After that, the Team saw the temperatures rising and I was asked to box and then retire the car. It initially looked like a power unit issue from the data but the Team investigated and found that some debris had pierced the radiator system which led to the rising temperatures".
Yeah. I can imagine Albon longs back for the easier days back at AlphaTauri.
However, his attempts to literally get into an AlphaTauri car during the race (first Kvyat's, and later almost Gasly's, too) may not be the best way to express that feeling.

It was really dreadful. Even without knowing of the engine problem, it almost seemed like just feeling ashamed about the performance & radio messages was sufficient reason to retire him.

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adrianjordan
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 00:25
Lock2nl wrote:
11 Oct 2020, 23:23
PlatinumZealot wrote:
11 Oct 2020, 22:30
Albone, be gone!

That's what i was thinking today. I want him to get better but it's just not happening. I can't bear it anymore. He should just resign or something for all our sakes.
He is gone as far as I know. Starting in Portimao I expect Nico to take over the wheel.
People don't realize how good Riccardo is, he's the only one that has even stood a chance against Verstappen and he was still .3 behind on average. You could put Alonso next to Verstappen, hell you could put Hamilton next to him and the gap would likely be similar to what he had on Riccardo.
Much as I hate to admit it, Max is probably as fast as Lewis, but I would say they're pretty evenly matched in terms of pace. Where Lewis would have an advantage is the kind games though, I feel like he learnt a lot during his seasons alongside Rosberg.

Maybe we'll find out one day, maybe not. Isn't that one of the beauties of F1 though? 😝
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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Highly unlikely well ever find out, but I agree it would be close between them. At this point I think Max might have a slight pace advantage, but Lewis is smart in all aspects of being a F1 driver. Sometimes too smart for his own good 😜

tangodjango
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 00:25
Lock2nl wrote:
11 Oct 2020, 23:23
PlatinumZealot wrote:
11 Oct 2020, 22:30
Albone, be gone!

That's what i was thinking today. I want him to get better but it's just not happening. I can't bear it anymore. He should just resign or something for all our sakes.
He is gone as far as I know. Starting in Portimao I expect Nico to take over the wheel.
People don't realize how good Riccardo is, he's the only one that has even stood a chance against Verstappen and he was still .3 behind on average. You could put Alonso next to Verstappen, hell you could put Hamilton next to him and the gap would likely be similar to what he had on Riccardo.
If Alonso was put in the Red Bull in 2019 Verstappen would probably not be the Red Bull lead driver. Silly attempts to put Verstappen on a pedestal serve no purpose. As for Verstappen putting a gap on Hamilton is simply laughable when it was Verstappen who ran away from the chance to drive for Mercedes. Danny Ricc was very comparable to Max and would probably be one to two tenths away regularly in a situation with same circumstances (not just equipment) No doubt Verstappen is an immense talent however he is not 2/3 tenths better than Hamilton or Alonso or Schumacher.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

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Wouter
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Helmut Marko was yesterday evening on Sport1 TV at 21.15h.

From F1-Insider.com Twitter:

Helmut Marko just revealed at the AvD Motorsport Magazin on @SPORT1TV, that also Red Bull was in contact with @HulkHulkenberg on friday about a possible replacement of @alex_albon who had an unclear Corona-test.

Marko also reveals: "Giovinazzi had an unclear Corona-test result like Albon. Who knows, maybe Mick was even close to drive his first #F1 race!"
"The signs are there that @SchumacherMick will drive alongside Kimi Raikkonen at Alfa Romeo 2021. Kimi would be a great teacher for Mick."

Marko also said that Albon has to perform to keep the seat. If he doesn't, they have to look at drivers like @HulkHulkenberg and @SChecoPerez.
But only then. Marko believes, nobody will get closer to @Max33Verstappen than three tenths. Albon can do that at good days.

Marko also reveals that Red Bull thinks about developing its own engine on the basis of the Honda PU from 2022 onwards.
But they are also open for other competitive engines.

Hulkenberg is said to be replacing Albon from Portimao and will also drive for RBR next season. Let's wait and see if it will be confirmed one of these days.

Hulkenberg was asked about his plans yesterday, to which he replied: "I'm going to my house in Mallorca now and we'll see what happens." :D
The Power of Dreams!

tangodjango
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 10:28
Highly unlikely well ever find out, but I agree it would be close between them. At this point I think Max might have a slight pace advantage, but Lewis is smart in all aspects of being a F1 driver. Sometimes too smart for his own good 😜
Yeah it would probably be very evenly matched with Verstappen being slightly more consistent but Hamilton having slightly higher peaks maybe? But we don't know, in the middle part of 2018 when the pressure was highest Hamilton came up with a run of consistency that would have left Schumacher or Alonso gasping, he's simply great under pressure, can he sustain that against Max in the same car across the season? He sure could against Alonso, ultimately we don't know but I sure hope 2022 is when we find out if Hamilton is at the same level (and given Alonso´s 2018 season at 37 why wouldn´t he be, with the caveat all drivers are different)
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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I am just hoping, but have been for years, that RBR is able to catch up so that there are real battles in the top. Ferrari may come back too, they have now endured the pain themselves as well. Last year they were riding high and others had to feel how unfair that was. This year was for repenting!

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Juzh
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:
11 Oct 2020, 23:06

Take aways from the race, the RB16 chassis has improved, but DAS was a big help on the restart, will be interesting to see Mercedes have to do without it next year. To a certain extent, I feel that some of the pace drop off was the power unit running out of ERS. The Mercedes power unit has incredible ERS stamina and can work their chassis can still work the tires better. Those two details make the difference vs the RB16 which is now on the verge of being the premier chassis on the grid.
Looking at some onboards (even the fastest lap one posted earlier) it's clear RB16 is still an unstable car, requiring constant corrections mid-corner in order to be fast. Something Verstappen can do and Albon can't if his life depended on it. It's not snapping away as it was at the start of the season, but it's still not got those confidence inspiring traits we've been used to seeing in previous years. Mercedes on the other hand is all smooth sailing, completely on rails. It's also got a power advantage in key moments. Verstappen lost around 3 tenths vs Hamilton on their final Q3 run on the straights.

Image

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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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tangodjango wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 10:45
Sieper wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 10:28
Highly unlikely well ever find out, but I agree it would be close between them. At this point I think Max might have a slight pace advantage, but Lewis is smart in all aspects of being a F1 driver. Sometimes too smart for his own good 😜
Yeah it would probably be very evenly matched with Verstappen being slightly more consistent but Hamilton having slightly higher peaks maybe? But we don't know, in the middle part of 2018 when the pressure was highest Hamilton came up with a run of consistency that would have left Schumacher or Alonso gasping, he's simply great under pressure, can he sustain that against Max in the same car across the season? He sure could against Alonso, ultimately we don't know but I sure hope 2022 is when we find out if Hamilton is at the same level (and given Alonso´s 2018 season at 37 why wouldn´t he be, with the caveat all drivers are different)
Indeed, Lewis sometimes is incredibly quick, super high peak. Max his qualy in sotchi was such a peak as well but he doesn’t have them often. And in 2016 he still got beat by Ricciardo in qualy often so that might indeed indicate that the extreme speed peaks for Lewis are coming thicker on the ground. In the race pace I think Lewis scorching runs also (like hungary last year after the extra pitstop) were partly due to higher engine modes. I don’t want to downplay Lewis, I think he has that absolute magic only a very select group has.

Wynters
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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I'd be interested to see a comparison between Verstappen and Hamilton at the same point in their careers. I think comparing a 35-year old Hamilton is too much apples compared to oranges.* That would put him up against...2013 (?) Hamilton. I think that would be a very exciting contest.

*To put it another way, I think a 35-year old Verstappen would comfortably beat today's Verstappen as his wealth of experience would be so much greater.

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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 11:02

I don’t want to downplay Lewis, I think he has that absolute magic only a very select group has.
When Pu failure it is always Bottas, when puncture it is alway bottas, when he run off and brake his front wing it is just before pit entry, when he had puncture he has enought time to reach finish line, when he pitted and returned in the pack, suddenly everybody starts to pit and nobody slows him down.

Wynters
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Hamilton has beaten three WDCs, in the same equipment, at the peak of their respective powers, including during his rookie season.

Yeah, he's just lucky. You've nailed it.