[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[godlameroso]

You haven't refuted anything, did you refute the small dip on the exit of the chicane? No, because it is obviously there. I never claimed that Red Bull can take over Honda's operation tomorrow. I said they are competent enough to run the engines by the time Honda pulls out. Any insult you feel is yours and yours alone. I don't feel offended but as a man I will defend myself, if you don't understand this then you are not much of a man.
Having my "credibilty" questioned by people who mistake equations for reality over actual experiments is no one worth fretting over . Have a nice day.



What is this?

[aral]

I have had to remove a few posts and to edit a few to try and curb the degeneration of this thread. Please keep the personal attacks and insults out of the forum. Thanks

[diffuser]

Ferrari continuously threatens to leave, while Merc/Renault have been in and out before.

And, can you give a source to the "good riddance" attitude the you claim RBR to have? I have only come across articles that show this to be a great relationship broken up by the Honda corporate board. Not by how the relationship actually feels/functions.

That was all me .

Just saying if they got the Merc PU, they would have just moved on. They might have even tried to advance Honda's exit.

I loved Honda, I'm just getting tired of their act.

[McG]

You haven't refuted anything, did you refute the small dip on the exit of the chicane? No, because it is obviously there. I never claimed that Red Bull can take over Honda's operation tomorrow. I said they are competent enough to run the engines by the time Honda pulls out. Any insult you feel is yours and yours alone. I don't feel offended but as a man I will defend myself, if you don't understand this then you are not much of a man.
Having my "credibilty" questioned by people who mistake equations for reality over actual experiments is no one worth fretting over . Have a nice day.

https://files.catbox.moe/4zd2ud.jpg

What is this?

I agree with you. Although I'm not a fan of Red Bull it's pretty clear they get things done, and if they do take over the Honda PU I think they will do a decent job with it. Remember it was only with outside help that Honda actually started to really improve. And by improve I don't mean oh hooray they finished a race, I mean real improvement in all areas.
I'm actually excited for the future of this project if Red Bull take it over.

[bigblue]

[Remember it was only with outside help that Honda actually started to really improve.

Who helped out Honda ?

[godlameroso]

[Remember it was only with outside help that Honda actually started to really improve.

Who helped out Honda ?

Outside of Honda the corporation, or outside of Honda F1 program? I believe Honda started drawing engineering help from other departments. As far as outside help, from what I hear the couple personalities that Honda brought in to help with the engine program were let go due to lack of results. This is as far back as the McLaren days. Honda does have to deal with suppliers and a fair bit of them are based in Europe, but a lot were also "home" talents.

Honda really started to improve once they no longer had to worry about reliability, because they could focus on performance instead of both. Although it is true that reliability improves performance to the extent it lets you run more aggressive settings for longer. The big gains come from downsizing components making them more efficient, and having a reliable baseline is very important to that process. Smaller lighter components give more leeway to the chassis side to make the aero more extreme. Also improving weight distribution of the chassis, or strengthening certain parts so they tolerate heat better, which again require less cooling, which gives more freedom for aero.

Honda also had a works partnership with their turbo manufacturer IHI for the 2019 season I believe, but that works partnership also dissolved, not because of lack of results, rather Honda felt they could "take it from there".

[ispano6]

[Remember it was only with outside help that Honda actually started to really improve.

Who helped out Honda ?

Toro Rosso and Honda Jet. Then Red Bull and Max Verstappen. Then Honda Jet again. Led by Yasuaki Asaki who came in from the Automobile division after developing the N-Box.

[Sieper]

I must say that I am personally still in a "mourning" phase. Maybe that is also why the arguments get so heated. Plus I fear there will not be a good solution. I just want to see RBR in the mix, for real. I have no problem with Ferrari turning up again. I want to see real battles. this year has not been a total loss for that, but yes, underwhelming a bit.

[nzjrs]

I must say that I am personally still in a "mourning" phase. Maybe that is also why the arguments get so heated. Plus I fear there will not be a good solution. I just want to see RBR in the mix, for real. I have no problem with Ferrari turning up again. I want to see real battles. this year has not been a total loss for that, but yes, underwhelming a bit.

Yip, me too 100%.

[godlameroso]

At the end of the day, since every manufacturer is moving towards a split turbo setup, it'll make things easier to integrate regardless which power unit they end up using. If that's what's going to end up happening and the FIA can compel one of the manufacturers to supply RB with a power unit, then the only downside I see is a few people out of a job as the budget cap is put in place.

[NL_Fer]

They have 1,5 year to develop the “final” ‘22 powerunit. Should be enough

But Ferrari & Merc probably want spend any left over money from the cap on the powerunit.

[Jaisonas]

They have 1,5 year to develop the “final” ‘22 powerunit. Should be enough

But Ferrari & Merc probably want spend any left over money from the cap on the powerunit.

Its not just about the money, with the introduction of the new fuel in 2022/23, a new cylinder head must be developed, something redbull cannot manage.

[GhostF1]

They have 1,5 year to develop the “final” ‘22 powerunit. Should be enough

But Ferrari & Merc probably want spend any left over money from the cap on the powerunit.

Its not just about the money, with the introduction of the new fuel in 2022/23, a new cylinder head must be developed, something redbull cannot manage.

This is something that is more than likely already in development. It was Marko who mentioned a new cylinder head is being developed for biofuel integration.

The fact Red Bull has made noise, and Honda themselves for that matter, that Honda has brought forward their "new engine" that was initially destined for 2022 introduction to 2021, it might be that it will either be already compatible with the new fuel or the new unit will have most of the groundwork done for it and by the end of '21 they'll have a fully developed RA622H ready for deployment for RBR to use in 22 and beyond.

Either way, it's obvious Honda/Merc/Ferrari/Renault will of done PLENTY of research and development into how the new fuel will affect running of these engines by now. This work would of started well before the Honda board in Japan called it quits. So the fact they've been given full funding to continue until the end of 2021 makes me think this could possibly work out well if Red Bull/Mugen/Ilmor/Whoever take over the project.

[diffuser]

Right but who does the tweeks if they haven't got it perfect or discover a problem in season?

[Manoah2u]

They have 1,5 year to develop the “final” ‘22 powerunit. Should be enough

But Ferrari & Merc probably want spend any left over money from the cap on the powerunit.

Its not just about the money, with the introduction of the new fuel in 2022/23, a new cylinder head must be developed, something redbull cannot manage.

This is something that is more than likely already in development. It was Marko who mentioned a new cylinder head is being developed for biofuel integration.

The fact Red Bull has made noise, and Honda themselves for that matter, that Honda has brought forward their "new engine" that was initially destined for 2022 introduction to 2021, it might be that it will either be already compatible with the new fuel or the new unit will have most of the groundwork done for it and by the end of '21 they'll have a fully developed RA622H ready for deployment for RBR to use in 22 and beyond.

Either way, it's obvious Honda/Merc/Ferrari/Renault will of done PLENTY of research and development into how the new fuel will affect running of these engines by now. This work would of started well before the Honda board in Japan called it quits. So the fact they've been given full funding to continue until the end of 2021 makes me think this could possibly work out well if Red Bull/Mugen/Ilmor/Whoever take over the project.

Something possibly interesting would be a 'backdoor' deal between RBR and Honda, possibly made up a long time ago, where they were always meant to 'take over' Honda's F1 engine, have RBR develop and change the Honda F1 engine, with the help of former Honda employees (get on RBR payroll), work out how to deal with the biofuel, all without being an 'official' honda engine and thus no bad publicity if anything goes bad, and then, at the end, RBR can sell the 'engine formula' back to Honda, and use it to translate into their automotive applications.
Not saying a 'return' of Honda into F1 by then, simply the truth being that Honda has found a way to 'secretly' work on technology in a 'secret' partnership with RB technologies which will NOT cost HONDA itself any money during that period. Let's call it a loophole.

Just a thought.