[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[Sieper]

Albon is as good as gone by this point. Abysmal and completely unacceptable performance last few races.

Standard fare for Red Bull and their "driver programme". Throw in young drivers and just leave them to sink or swim. If they sink, chuck them away with their careers all but ruined. Rinse, repeat. If the young drivers is lucky, he'll get a second chance in another team and be able to show his talent. Otherwise, he's washed up and washed out. I can't help but think that RedBull's problem is partly their own making in this regard.

Albon might find another seat in F1 or he might be lucky and find a seat in another formula/series altogether. Or become a TV commentator.

Mercedes shipped Van Doorne and Wehrlein off without ever having had a change in the main team. Russell is in waiting and who knows if he doesn't suffer the same fate as Wehrlein.

I can't say you are totally wrong but the tone seems a bit too spitefull in the way I view it. There was also a lot of pressure from the outside to demote Gasly (and they did keep him on). I never was one of those who called for his blood but a lot of people were screaming for it, just like now with Albon. For me he can stay (like I thought for Gasly)but look in this very topic, or elsewhere to see what pressure is exerted on RBR to remove him from the seat.

[nzjrs]

I can not but think Gasly and Albon next year in AT, with the 'sister team not junior team' quote is going to look a very respectable upper mid team.

I wonder if Tsunoda future in AT is tied to the engine / Japanese situation as much as it is tied to his super license points. That leaves a door open or closed for Albon.

[Juzh]

Albon is as good as gone by this point. Abysmal and completely unacceptable performance last few races.

Standard fare for Red Bull and their "driver programme". Throw in young drivers and just leave them to sink or swim. If they sink, chuck them away with their careers all but ruined. Rinse, repeat. If the young drivers is lucky, he'll get a second chance in another team and be able to show his talent. Otherwise, he's washed up and washed out. I can't help but think that RedBull's problem is partly their own making in this regard.

Albon might find another seat in F1 or he might be lucky and find a seat in another formula/series altogether. Or become a TV commentator.

This one sided view is pathetic frankly. As opposed to mercedes who drops their drivers left and right as already pointed out? Even Russel who is a very good driver is in danger currently, with uncertainty over next year's drive.

Yes, RB program is brutal, but as I see it almost every driver made some kind of career out of it, even if they were not that successful overall. Not everyone can be a champion every year, and there's only 2 seats available in RB. There's currently 7 (!) drivers on the grid that have some connection to red bull (obviously 4 in their own teams + vet, ric, sai), with 4 of them already having very stellar careers and 2 of them still can make something happen (only kvyat is completely written-off imo, he's not going anywhere).
Gasly got a pretty good second chance in AT I'd say, not least winning in monza. Yeah, that demotion really hurt him badly.

[etusch]

Perez seems like a reasonable choice. I put him somewhere close to Ric's level, maybe just a bit below that, which is more or less perfect for Red bull. He won't be bothering Verstappen too much and will be able to put that car where it actually belongs much more so than Albon.
Albon is as good as gone by this point. Abysmal and completely unacceptable performance last few races. I'm 100% convinced decision has already been made and they're just waiting for the right moment to announce it, whenever that may be.
I've seen numerous cracks last year already even on his good days, but given him benefit of doubt as he was a rookie after all. This year he should pick up his performances as the year got on, but instead he seems to be standing still at best, if not moving backwards.

perez close to ric? noway even in the pluto planet

[Juzh]

Perez seems like a reasonable choice. I put him somewhere close to Ric's level, maybe just a bit below that, which is more or less perfect for Red bull. He won't be bothering Verstappen too much and will be able to put that car where it actually belongs much more so than Albon.
Albon is as good as gone by this point. Abysmal and completely unacceptable performance last few races. I'm 100% convinced decision has already been made and they're just waiting for the right moment to announce it, whenever that may be.
I've seen numerous cracks last year already even on his good days, but given him benefit of doubt as he was a rookie after all. This year he should pick up his performances as the year got on, but instead he seems to be standing still at best, if not moving backwards.

perez close to ric? noway even in the pluto planet

I disagree, but ok. He's close if nothing else and certainly miles better than albon/gasly.

[etusch]

perez close to ric? noway even in the pluto planet

I disagree, but ok. He's close if nothing else and certainly miles better than albon/gasly.

This kind of talks generally pointless. It is just obvious that Ricciardo is a very good driver. But yea we can compare Albon/Gasly with Perez. He is more experienced than Gasly/Albon but better ? I don't know. I don't think Stroll is good driver but he can compete with Perez. We can not say Gasly/Albon can not beat him with that one year old mercedes, which is easier to drive than redbull I think. Because of this I am not sure if Redbull sould hire him or not. Russell maybe a better choise. This is 2nd year with not so good choise which are looked good choise at first and 3d is too much in this level of competition. Well this last sentence is a bit weird. There is not competition in fact.

[selvam_e2002]

Russel is better for RB. I think after 6 years with RB, Max may look for other opportunity outside of RB after 2022 so RB need talented driver so Russel is a good choice. He is young and can travel with RB for another 5 o 6 years.

[bosyber]

Albon is as good as gone by this point. Abysmal and completely unacceptable performance last few races.

Standard fare for Red Bull and their "driver programme". Throw in young drivers and just leave them to sink or swim. If they sink, chuck them away with their careers all but ruined. Rinse, repeat. If the young drivers is lucky, he'll get a second chance in another team and be able to show his talent. Otherwise, he's washed up and washed out. I can't help but think that RedBull's problem is partly their own making in this regard.

Albon might find another seat in F1 or he might be lucky and find a seat in another formula/series altogether. Or become a TV commentator.

This one sided view is pathetic frankly. As opposed to mercedes who drops their drivers left and right as already pointed out? Even Russel who is a very good driver is in danger currently, with uncertainty over next year's drive.

Yes, RB program is brutal, but as I see it almost every driver made some kind of career out of it, even if they were not that successful overall. Not everyone can be a champion every year, and there's only 2 seats available in RB. There's currently 7 (!) drivers on the grid that have some connection to red bull (obviously 4 in their own teams + vet, ric, sai), with 4 of them already having very stellar careers and 2 of them still can make something happen (only kvyat is completely written-off imo, he's not going anywhere).
Gasly got a pretty good second chance in AT I'd say, not least winning in monza. Yeah, that demotion really hurt him badly.

Merc. remains a bit OT, but yeah, it's not really impressive how they fumbled Ocon's career, and also managed to stall Russell who seems a lot more promising, if not hamper him outright if he loses the Williams seat, while Bottas clearly isn't going to challenge Hamilton too much. It would be a risk for Russell to go to Red Bull, and for Red Bull too, given what both Gasly and Albon showed, but it certainly wouldn't be a crazy choice for either side (just like going for Verstappen into F1 was a risk for driver and team, but clearly paid off)

[diffuser]

Another P3.The soft tires was really rubbish.Mediums was the best trye for this race.
I think Max can beat bottas if he started the race with Mediums.They really should use medium in Q2.

He may then be starting p5 and get passed by other cars off the grid. Or, taken off. It is always better to start where you are less likely to be in someone else' accident.

Yeah you got to wonder why they didn't even try. They might not have been able to get into Q3 on mediums.

In Q2, Max was at 1.17 flat, Ric(10th) was at 1:17.4 and Ocon 1:17.6. Obviously all on Softs. On Mediums Max is probably anywhere from 1:17.3 to 1:17.7. Olso going in you really don't know if Ric and Ocon can do 1:17.3.

Basically, the margin wasn't there.

[Sieper]

Not a problem. The medium was the fastest qualify tire as well.

Two reasons. I think 1 do something else as Merc and hope it works. No cigar. 2 have an advantage in the opening lap and see if you can keep them behind. No cigar.

Option 2 did have some success as Max got Bottas at the start but (as could be seen in the ziggo post race analysis) 2020 Max is very carefull in the opening lap and he gave Bottas plenty of space who aggresively put it next to him and even fully forced Max of track. A point not being mentioned anywhere. Forcing a driver off track. Opening lap of course but still. It caused the Perez jump attempt, which caused the mclaren attack, the charles and kimi attack etc. The point, Max is very carefull with others these days but that did negate the opening lap advantage.

[DChemTech]

Not a problem. The medium was the fastest qualify tire as well.

Two reasons. I think 1 do something else as Merc and hope it works. No cigar. 2 have an advantage in the opening lap and see if you can keep them behind. No cigar.

Option 2 did have some success as Max got Bottas at the start but (as could be seen in the ziggo post race analysis) 2020 Max is very carefull in the opening lap and he gave Bottas plenty of space who aggresively put it next to him and even fully forced Max of track. A point not being mentioned anywhere. Forcing a driver off track. Opening lap of course but still. It caused the Perez jump attempt, which caused the mclaren attack, the charles and kimi attack etc. The point, Max is very carefull with others these days but that did negate the opening lap advantage.

Thanks for mentioning the Bottas opening push Sieper. I was also surprised this was brought up very little or not at all. Max really had nowhere to go. Now I imagine some people will compare this to Max's own aggressive overtakes in the past (on Leclerc at Austria, on Vettel in Brazil 2016), but to defend Max, those were hard 1-to-1 fights where the opponent was passed and could lift, not the melee of an opening lap. Quite surely the bit of offroading didn't do Max's tires much good, which affected his capacity to avoid Perez a corner later. Not blaming Bottas or Perez particularly; what proceeded was part of typical opening lap chaos, but it does put some context in place which those that blame Max for the incident with Perez seem to ignore.

[Just_a_fan]

Albon is as good as gone by this point. Abysmal and completely unacceptable performance last few races.

Standard fare for Red Bull and their "driver programme". Throw in young drivers and just leave them to sink or swim. If they sink, chuck them away with their careers all but ruined. Rinse, repeat. If the young drivers is lucky, he'll get a second chance in another team and be able to show his talent. Otherwise, he's washed up and washed out. I can't help but think that RedBull's problem is partly their own making in this regard.

Albon might find another seat in F1 or he might be lucky and find a seat in another formula/series altogether. Or become a TV commentator.

Mercedes shipped Van Doorne and Wehrlein off without ever having had a change in the main team. Russell is in waiting and who knows if he doesn't suffer the same fate as Wehrlein.

Big difference between being given a small team role and being thrown in to the lion's jaw with the main team. In one, there is much less public pressure/expectation than the other.

Perhaps if RedBull hadn't "scared away" Ricciardo, they'd be better off today, for example. They'd certainly have more points on the table.

[TNTHead]

Not a problem. The medium was the fastest qualify tire as well.

Two reasons. I think 1 do something else as Merc and hope it works. No cigar. 2 have an advantage in the opening lap and see if you can keep them behind. No cigar.

Option 2 did have some success as Max got Bottas at the start but (as could be seen in the ziggo post race analysis) 2020 Max is very carefull in the opening lap and he gave Bottas plenty of space who aggresively put it next to him and even fully forced Max of track. A point not being mentioned anywhere. Forcing a driver off track. Opening lap of course but still. It caused the Perez jump attempt, which caused the mclaren attack, the charles and kimi attack etc. The point, Max is very carefull with others these days but that did negate the opening lap advantage.

Nice observation. This whole season Max is much more risk averse than previous years. I think all because of his attempt to not win the race in the first corner but play the long game. I see it as a further matured Max who knows better where to take risks and where to let go.

This season all his DNFs are related to reliability issues, so definitely an improvement WDC wise.

[Just_a_fan]

Albon is as good as gone by this point. Abysmal and completely unacceptable performance last few races.

Standard fare for Red Bull and their "driver programme". Throw in young drivers and just leave them to sink or swim. If they sink, chuck them away with their careers all but ruined. Rinse, repeat. If the young drivers is lucky, he'll get a second chance in another team and be able to show his talent. Otherwise, he's washed up and washed out. I can't help but think that RedBull's problem is partly their own making in this regard.

Albon might find another seat in F1 or he might be lucky and find a seat in another formula/series altogether. Or become a TV commentator.

This one sided view is pathetic frankly. As opposed to mercedes who drops their drivers left and right as already pointed out? Even Russel who is a very good driver is in danger currently, with uncertainty over next year's drive.

As I mentioned in my other reply, Mercedes don't throw drivers in to the lion's jaws with the main team in the way that Albon has been. I think that if he'd had time in AT or elsewhere, he'd be a much better fit in the main team afterwards.

Most drivers aren't like Max (or Charles, or Lewis back in the day) where they can step in to a top team against a top team mate and perform from day one. Most need to be fed in to it all over a number of steps. Otherwise the risk is that they become overawed by the situation. I think that's Albon's problem. Given a seat in AT, for example, I'd expect to see Albon grow. It doesn't look like that's going to happen, sadly.

[Just_a_fan]

It would be a risk for Russell to go to Red Bull, and for Red Bull too, given what both Gasly and Albon showed, but it certainly wouldn't be a crazy choice for either side (just like going for Verstappen into F1 was a risk for driver and team, but clearly paid off)

It would be a risk but I think he's better prepared for it than Albon was. Russell has been in the paddock, doing the interviews, facing the questions, feeling the hype e.g. from his Q2 qualifying results etc. He's shown his ability so there is less pressure to hit the ground running when moving to somewhere like RedBull.

The issue for Russell, or any other driver going to RedBull whilst Max is there, is that the team are fully focused on Max. Any other driver is going to be the defacto Number 2. That can allow them to quietly get on with learning the ropes, but it does potentially limit how far they will be allowed to go. I don't see RedBull doing to Max what Ferrari appear to have done to Seb, for example.

But if Russell went to RedBull and qualified / finished near to Max through the season, that would be very good for his career. If he managed to qualify ahead of Max once or twice, that wouldn't hurt him either. It would certainly give Max something to think about.