[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[diffuser]

If Albon is seeing out the year that points at Perez.

My fear is the problems with the RB16 B will be even worse due to chopping up the floor. Then there's the Mercedes engine taking a rumored big step. Which means they may still be a step ahead of Honda.

To those that wonder about the RB15 being more competitive, remember that Honda brought zero power unit updates this year. Same fuel same engine slightly updated ERS.

Next year all of this year's development comes all at once. I just hope it's enough to keep Merc honest. The Merc power unit had its advantage locked in all year, and if they have a power unit advantage they'll once again keep it all next year

They did have 1 at the beginning of the year as did Merc. Ferrari an Renault have had no upgrades.

As per the regs introduced at the beginning of the year. No upgrades after the year starts.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/renaul ... andemic.

[godlameroso]

If Honda leaves RBR with a 2022 power unit, they'd be stuck with it and be able to see out 2022 but they'd be behind for 2023, and they would likely fall behind Renault forcing them to take that power unit.

[diffuser]

If Honda leaves RBR with a 2022 power unit, they'd be stuck with it and be able to see out 2022 but they'd be behind for 2023, and they would likely fall behind Renault forcing them to take that power unit.

I don't think you could prove to me that they are ahead now.

For the sake of argument I understand what you saying, they'll be able to increase their lead and or pass them.

Not sure where you're going with this. Renault wanted a freeze, Honda + RBR said no. Renault started a large investment in a new PU. Now Honda say they're pulling out. so now RBR wants a freeze cause , per your argument, they want to lock in a edge over Ferrari and Renault PU.

You think there is a chance in hell that happens? To me it looks like both Ferrari and Renault have duggin pretty deep against this.

It's kind of weird that Honda has done a complete about face.

[zibby43]

Indeed. Much bigger then they look on the car. Where did it got stuck exactly, did anyone see? In the bargeboards area somewhere?

Good question. I'm guessing it was stuck somewhere in the underfloor area, as Bottas spoke of driving directly over the debris in order to avoid puncturing a tire.

The '19 reg changes really made the FWs even more massive. Seeing footage of the mechanics carrying entire FW assemblies in the pitlane when practicing FW changes really highlights the size of these 2017+ cars.

[godlameroso]

If Honda leaves RBR with a 2022 power unit, they'd be stuck with it and be able to see out 2022 but they'd be behind for 2023, and they would likely fall behind Renault forcing them to take that power unit.

I don't think you could prove to me that they are ahead now.

For the sake of argument I understand what you saying, they'll be able to increase their lead and or pass them.

Not sure where you're going with this. Renault wanted a freeze, Honda + RBR said no. Renault started a large investment in a new PU. Now Honda say they're pulling out. so now RBR wants a freeze cause , per your argument, they want to lock in a edge over Ferrari and Renault PU.

You think there is a chance in hell that happens? To me it looks like both Ferrari and Renault have duggin pretty deep against this.

It's kind of weird that Honda has done a complete about face.

Power wise perhaps Renault is thereabouts with Honda, packaging wise, they're behind. Renault is switching to the split turbo layout, and making that change in addition to improving the combustion engine is why Renault is making a big investment. Remember that it took Honda over a year to get their package reliable enough, Renault will likely have to endure similar teething issues, as will Ferrari. Because both Ferrari and Renault are on the back foot and are making a big investment to update the power unit to the split turbo layout, they would not agree to having the engines frozen. First they want a return on their investment, secondly, they don't want to be stuck with an uncompetitive product.

I don't think they necessarily want Honda to be a bottom tier power unit, they just don't want to feel like they're getting screwed over by the FIA. Mercedes is fine with an early engine freeze, then it stands to reason they are confident with the performance of their power unit whereas the others are not. Red Bull is not confident they can keep up with the development of the other OEMs, and the other OEMs are not confident they can match either Honda or Mercedes with their concepts by 2022.

By 2023 the power units will be in their final frozen form.

There is still a way for all OEMs to compromise, but it would take the FIA getting involved. There are a lot of financial considerations which makes this subject very delicate.

[Bill]

Redbull says they want to keep Honda pu beyond 2021 but they keep dissing them on track like say they are faster in all corners but slower in the straights even though they know is not true,why would they want to freeze a lacking pu .they have gone for more rake to make the car more drivable but thats hurting their top speed.alpha tauri have been a revelation these season i am much more exited about them than Rbr they are positioning them self as third force .so honda powered 2 and 3 is not bad
fia should freeze pu it requires infinite amount of money for tiny performance gains

[_cerber1]

Redbull says they want to keep Honda pu beyond 2021 but they keep dissing them on track like say they are faster in all corners but slower in the straights even though they know is not true,why would they want to freeze a lacking pu .they have gone for more rake to make the car more drivable but thats hurting their top speed.alpha tauri have been a revelation these season i am much more exited about them than Rbr they are positioning them self as third force .so honda powered 2 and 3 is not bad
fia should freeze pu it requires infinite amount of money for tiny performance gains

As far as I know, on the direct line, the energy in the batteries in the Honda ends earlier than in the MB, and the power from the MGU-H system on the direct line is not enough to continue to accelerate. Therefore, RB's remarks are well-founded and are not related to the frontal resistance of the chassis.

[Jolle]

Redbull says they want to keep Honda pu beyond 2021 but they keep dissing them on track like say they are faster in all corners but slower in the straights even though they know is not true,why would they want to freeze a lacking pu .they have gone for more rake to make the car more drivable but thats hurting their top speed.alpha tauri have been a revelation these season i am much more exited about them than Rbr they are positioning them self as third force .so honda powered 2 and 3 is not bad
fia should freeze pu it requires infinite amount of money for tiny performance gains

Infinite amounts of money for small gains is the core of F1. If you look what the big three are spending vs the backmarkers, it’s just one or two percent gain. 200 million for a second and that’s just the chassis.

[Sieper]

Indeed. Much bigger then they look on the car. Where did it got stuck exactly, did anyone see? In the bargeboards area somewhere?

Good question. I'm guessing it was stuck somewhere in the underfloor area, as Bottas spoke of driving directly over the debris in order to avoid puncturing a tire.

The '19 reg changes really made the FWs even more massive. Seeing footage of the mechanics carrying entire FW assemblies in the pitlane when practicing FW changes really highlights the size of these 2017+ cars.

Must have been, I didn’t see it on the car. Weird it got stuck under the floor, you would think it gets ripped out at some point. Bad luck for Bottas, it meant Max did the undercut and Lewis winning the race. Even worse luck for Max later on but ok.

[Wouter]

Indeed. Much bigger then they look on the car. Where did it got stuck exactly, did anyone see? In the bargeboards area somewhere?

[Sieper]

there it was! indeed, under the car would have been so weird. here is much more area to get stuck. Black side out made it harder to see. thanks Wouter!

[Wouter]

there it was! indeed, under the car would have been so weird. here is much more area to get stuck. Black side out made it harder to see. thanks Wouter!

You're welcome @Sieper. Motorsport Magazine just posted it half an hour ago.

[etusch]

That's what I call a --- race. Frustrating always the same guy with all the luck. Also with the garbage tires. What a useless sport F1 is right now

Isn't it up to Red Bull - Honda to build a faster car?

The tyres, that is another debate. Pirelli won the 2020-2023 tender, Hankook were rejected, so that is that... Pirelli continue as the supplier.

Will Hulkenberg drive a #27 Red Bull in Turkey?

What is wrong with Albon is pressure. He can not handle it and how goes up his performance goes down. He need to go a low level team. Hope he can find a team to continue.

[etusch]

Redbull says they want to keep Honda pu beyond 2021 but they keep dissing them on track like say they are faster in all corners but slower in the straights even though they know is not true,why would they want to freeze a lacking pu .they have gone for more rake to make the car more drivable but thats hurting their top speed.alpha tauri have been a revelation these season i am much more exited about them than Rbr they are positioning them self as third force .so honda powered 2 and 3 is not bad
fia should freeze pu it requires infinite amount of money for tiny performance gains

Gasly was 4th with AT. What the car could achieve with max ? If there is still same performance difference or close to it, AT car has more potential

[Wouter]

Video how Max his right rear tire broke.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 0rxCG.html