[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[godlameroso]

How does he not cook? Cooking bacon naked is one of life's greatest thrills.

[Big Tea]

How does he not cook? Cooking bacon naked is one of life's greatest thrills.

Don't do sausages in bad light though

[godlameroso]

How does he not cook? Cooking bacon naked is one of life's greatest thrills.

Don't do sausages in bad light though

Air fryer, it's almost as good as grilling them.

[Lock2nl]

You're missing the point. The pictures examine the difference in height between the left and right side of the wing. Notice that Albon's wing on bottom row is equal in height left and right while Verstappen's has a significant difference on top.
I drew the redline cause the article's yellow line wasnt aligned properly and was a bit exaggerated.
https://i.imgur.com/0bGgoWO.png

Right, I use that same horizontal plane and put it over the front tires and showed the same height difference between the left and right front tires. Basically most of that height difference is the slant/bank in the track.

It could be some suspension lean as well in it from the car turning left at velocity. All you're showing is the whole car is in a slight Pisa tower like lean.

Again you still don't get it. The red line is aligned with the base of the front nose, pixel by pixel. We're not looking at the angle of the line. We want that line like in Albon's car to have the same difference of height with the flaps of each side since its aligned with the wing base.
The difference you're supposed to see is in the flap settings between the left and right side on Verstappens car (now pointed with extra red arrows) since the line touches the left side but its right side its quite lower. Those are the 7 degrees difference Marko was talking about.
https://i.imgur.com/hv3VHVX.png

They were there alright since Max said so and Marko admitted the failure.

But here's the question. If left and right side were at equal angles at the start (let's assume that), why on earth would you like to change a front wing angle with 3.5 degrees (and one mechanic 'screwing up')? It would destroy the balance completely since rear angle is fixed. Adjustments going from dry to wet are in fact smaller!
Simply said: I just do not buy this reversed adjustment explanation from Marko. There must be more.

[Jaisonas]

Right, I use that same horizontal plane and put it over the front tires and showed the same height difference between the left and right front tires. Basically most of that height difference is the slant/bank in the track.

It could be some suspension lean as well in it from the car turning left at velocity. All you're showing is the whole car is in a slight Pisa tower like lean.

Again you still don't get it. The red line is aligned with the base of the front nose, pixel by pixel. We're not looking at the angle of the line. We want that line like in Albon's car to have the same difference of height with the flaps of each side since its aligned with the wing base.
The difference you're supposed to see is in the flap settings between the left and right side on Verstappens car (now pointed with extra red arrows) since the line touches the left side but its right side its quite lower. Those are the 7 degrees difference Marko was talking about.
https://i.imgur.com/hv3VHVX.png

They were there alright since Max said so and Marko admitted the failure.

But here's the question. If left and right side were at equal angles at the start (let's assume that), why on earth would you like to change a front wing angle with 3.5 degrees (and one mechanic 'screwing up')? It would destroy the balance completely since rear angle is fixed. Adjustments going from dry to wet are in fact smaller!
Simply said: I just do not buy this reversed adjustment explanation from Marko. There must be more.

According to what Marko said to Motorsport-Total.com:

"We used a new front wing in Istanbul. The thread for adjustment goes in the opposite direction than the old one. A wrong adjustment was made."

But while the mechanics turned the thread in the right direction (steeper) on one side of the wing, they turned it in the wrong direction (flatter) on the other side. "It only happened on one side," confirms Marko.

The adjustment happened on the first pitstop when they switched from wets to inters

[PlatinumZealot]

How does he not cook? Cooking bacon naked is one of life's greatest thrills.

Don't do sausages in bad light though

Air fryer, it's almost as good as grilling them.

[diffuser]

Dude the guys are in a left hand turn and you can clearily see there is a bank to the track there.
https://i.ibb.co/6mXy1BL/bVpJ0I.jpg

You're missing the point. The pictures examine the difference in height between the left and right side of the wing. Notice that Albon's wing on bottom row is equal in height left and right while Verstappen's has a significant difference on top.
I drew the redline cause the article's yellow line wasnt aligned properly and was a bit exaggerated.
https://i.ibb.co/gmVjqpF/bVpJ0I.jpg

Right, I use that same horizontal plane and put it over the front tires and showed the same height difference between the left and right front tires. Basically most of that height difference is the slant/bank in the track.

It could be some suspension lean as well in it from the car turning left at velocity. All you're showing is the whole car is in a slight Pisa tower like lean.

Still think it is lean. On Max's images(top row) from the yellow line (where it meets the first vertical orange line from the right) up to the top of Rauch bargeboard line. The distance is much further that the same spot on the left. If you adjust the angle of the yellow line so that the distance to the top of the bargeboard on both sides are the same. You then see the distance from the yellow down to the wing on both sides is almost identical.

I will not even try to compare Max car picture to Albon's. No way we could guarantee those pictures were taken at the same speed, same angle, same distance and same lateral Gs.

I don't doubt what RBR said. I just think it's impossible to see a 4 degree differince in a wing in 2 pictures of 2 cars, of which you have no proof of what speed either of the cars where traveling at. Not to mention that the cars might normally be setup with slightly different wing angles (left to right) and different tire pressures.


Here a Drew a red line on the left copy and pasted on the right.






There is a tiny little difference but you also have to remember that the right side ofthe car is further away from us, you can see the side of wing plate on the left, the right side will appear smaller in the picture.

[Lock2nl]

Again you still don't get it. The red line is aligned with the base of the front nose, pixel by pixel. We're not looking at the angle of the line. We want that line like in Albon's car to have the same difference of height with the flaps of each side since its aligned with the wing base.
The difference you're supposed to see is in the flap settings between the left and right side on Verstappens car (now pointed with extra red arrows) since the line touches the left side but its right side its quite lower. Those are the 7 degrees difference Marko was talking about.
https://i.imgur.com/hv3VHVX.png

They were there alright since Max said so and Marko admitted the failure.

But here's the question. If left and right side were at equal angles at the start (let's assume that), why on earth would you like to change a front wing angle with 3.5 degrees (and one mechanic 'screwing up')? It would destroy the balance completely since rear angle is fixed. Adjustments going from dry to wet are in fact smaller!
Simply said: I just do not buy this reversed adjustment explanation from Marko. There must be more.

According to what Marko said to Motorsport-Total.com:

"We used a new front wing in Istanbul. The thread for adjustment goes in the opposite direction than the old one. A wrong adjustment was made."

But while the mechanics turned the thread in the right direction (steeper) on one side of the wing, they turned it in the wrong direction (flatter) on the other side. "It only happened on one side," confirms Marko.

The adjustment happened on the first pitstop when they switched from wets to inters

I know. From full wet to inters does not require 3.5 degrees more wing.
Maybe someone else with recent experience of frontwing adjustments in changing conditions could comment on this?

[Wouter]

Max has already bought himself a Christmas present. Boys and their toys ..
Built in 2009, he bought it from Richard Branson, who bought the Jet in 2015.

[godlameroso]

They were there alright since Max said so and Marko admitted the failure.

But here's the question. If left and right side were at equal angles at the start (let's assume that), why on earth would you like to change a front wing angle with 3.5 degrees (and one mechanic 'screwing up')? It would destroy the balance completely since rear angle is fixed. Adjustments going from dry to wet are in fact smaller!
Simply said: I just do not buy this reversed adjustment explanation from Marko. There must be more.

According to what Marko said to Motorsport-Total.com:

"We used a new front wing in Istanbul. The thread for adjustment goes in the opposite direction than the old one. A wrong adjustment was made."

But while the mechanics turned the thread in the right direction (steeper) on one side of the wing, they turned it in the wrong direction (flatter) on the other side. "It only happened on one side," confirms Marko.

The adjustment happened on the first pitstop when they switched from wets to inters

I know. From full wet to inters does not require 3.5 degrees more wing.
Maybe someone else with recent experience of frontwing adjustments in changing conditions could comment on this?

I don't think it would have made a difference if the FW was adjusted properly. Max had pace, but the spin put him behind slower cars and he couldn't make a difference. Pitting was also a mistake because it took him several laps to get enough temperature in the tires. The inters turned into slick tires, it was Inter city at the INTERcity Istanbul Park GP. Had he not spun behind Perez, he probably would have gotten him in a lap or two and easily won. He knows it, the team knows it, and why nothing was said at the end of the race.

[ispano6]

I don't think it would have made a difference if the FW was adjusted properly. Max had pace, but the spin put him behind slower cars and he couldn't make a difference. Pitting was also a mistake because it took him several laps to get enough temperature in the tires. The inters turned into slick tires, it was Inter city at the INTERcity Istanbul Park GP. Had he not spun behind Perez, he probably would have gotten him in a lap or two and easily won. He knows it, the team knows it, and why nothing was said at the end of the race.

Definitely, can't fault Max for trying, but he could have waited a few corners. Perez was also diplomatic in showing concern for Max after he suddenly disappeared from behind him. There was a mention that the mature/experienced drivers prevailed to be on the podium, however. Can't disagree with that too. I'm sure Honda was bummed but no where near the disappointment Lance Stroll and the Canadian fans felt. That was a major OUCH.

[Lock2nl]

According to what Marko said to Motorsport-Total.com:


The adjustment happened on the first pitstop when they switched from wets to inters

I know. From full wet to inters does not require 3.5 degrees more wing.
Maybe someone else with recent experience of frontwing adjustments in changing conditions could comment on this?

I don't think it would have made a difference if the FW was adjusted properly. Max had pace, but the spin put him behind slower cars and he couldn't make a difference. Pitting was also a mistake because it took him several laps to get enough temperature in the tires. The inters turned into slick tires, it was Inter city at the INTERcity Istanbul Park GP. Had he not spun behind Perez, he probably would have gotten him in a lap or two and easily won. He knows it, the team knows it, and why nothing was said at the end of the race.

You surely heard he quickly ruined his front tyre on one side?
Whether he spun or not, he was driving a car with a ruined setup. Probably already directly after the start as he said it was 'massively underwinged'. So he asked for at least one more degree front wing angle. That is not the same as 3.5 degrees (which went wrong on one side).

As I wrote earlier, 3.5 degrees is not normal. We never changed the front wing of an F3 car more than 1.5 degrees (going from dry to wet) unless we had made a huge setup error. In fact, with the wing sizes of f1 cars I would expects smaller amounts in F1.

[Moore77]

I know. From full wet to inters does not require 3.5 degrees more wing.
Maybe someone else with recent experience of frontwing adjustments in changing conditions could comment on this?

I don't think it would have made a difference if the FW was adjusted properly. Max had pace, but the spin put him behind slower cars and he couldn't make a difference. Pitting was also a mistake because it took him several laps to get enough temperature in the tires. The inters turned into slick tires, it was Inter city at the INTERcity Istanbul Park GP. Had he not spun behind Perez, he probably would have gotten him in a lap or two and easily won. He knows it, the team knows it, and why nothing was said at the end of the race.

You surely heard he quickly ruined his front tyre on one side?
Whether he spun or not, he was driving a car with a ruined setup. Probably already directly after the start as he said it was 'massively underwinged'. So he asked for at least one more degree front wing angle. That is not the same as 3.5 degrees (which went wrong on one side).

As I wrote earlier, 3.5 degrees is not normal. We never changed the front wing of an F3 car more than 1.5 degrees (going from dry to wet) unless we had made a huge setup error. In fact, with the wing sizes of f1 cars I would expects smaller amounts in F1.

When the cars were going multiple seconds slower than the best possible time in dry, a front wing adjustment gone wrong doesn't make a great difference. Even if it had an impact on tyre life, it still wasn't such a big parameter in such conditions. He missed the opportunity and couldn't recover back with new inters as they took eons to heat up, like everyone else's.

[Lock2nl]

I don't think it would have made a difference if the FW was adjusted properly. Max had pace, but the spin put him behind slower cars and he couldn't make a difference. Pitting was also a mistake because it took him several laps to get enough temperature in the tires. The inters turned into slick tires, it was Inter city at the INTERcity Istanbul Park GP. Had he not spun behind Perez, he probably would have gotten him in a lap or two and easily won. He knows it, the team knows it, and why nothing was said at the end of the race.

You surely heard he quickly ruined his front tyre on one side?
Whether he spun or not, he was driving a car with a ruined setup. Probably already directly after the start as he said it was 'massively underwinged'. So he asked for at least one more degree front wing angle. That is not the same as 3.5 degrees (which went wrong on one side).

As I wrote earlier, 3.5 degrees is not normal. We never changed the front wing of an F3 car more than 1.5 degrees (going from dry to wet) unless we had made a huge setup error. In fact, with the wing sizes of f1 cars I would expects smaller amounts in F1.

When the cars were going multiple seconds slower than the best possible time in dry, a front wing adjustment gone wrong doesn't make a great difference. Even if it had an impact on tyre life, it still wasn't such a big parameter in such conditions. He missed the opportunity and couldn't recover back with new inters as they took eons to heat up, like everyone else's.

Is this your personal experience?

[Moore77]

You surely heard he quickly ruined his front tyre on one side?
Whether he spun or not, he was driving a car with a ruined setup. Probably already directly after the start as he said it was 'massively underwinged'. So he asked for at least one more degree front wing angle. That is not the same as 3.5 degrees (which went wrong on one side).

As I wrote earlier, 3.5 degrees is not normal. We never changed the front wing of an F3 car more than 1.5 degrees (going from dry to wet) unless we had made a huge setup error. In fact, with the wing sizes of f1 cars I would expects smaller amounts in F1.

When the cars were going multiple seconds slower than the best possible time in dry, a front wing adjustment gone wrong doesn't make a great difference. Even if it had an impact on tyre life, it still wasn't such a big parameter in such conditions. He missed the opportunity and couldn't recover back with new inters as they took eons to heat up, like everyone else's.

Is this your personal experience?

All of it, yes.