[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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raymondu999 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 14:05
Zynerji wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 13:57
I'm sure Charles is a fine fellow. But his best results so far came in a car of questionable legality.
While this is true; I don't think the legality of the car affected the quality of his driving skill. He was given, in an algebraic analogy, "Equipment X" - but what results he pulled out would be seen relative to Equipment X. It's like an equation where both sides are divided by the same denominator. It cancels out, IMO.
Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!

LM10
LM10
121
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39
raymondu999 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 14:05
Zynerji wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 13:57
I'm sure Charles is a fine fellow. But his best results so far came in a car of questionable legality.
While this is true; I don't think the legality of the car affected the quality of his driving skill. He was given, in an algebraic analogy, "Equipment X" - but what results he pulled out would be seen relative to Equipment X. It's like an equation where both sides are divided by the same denominator. It cancels out, IMO.
Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
Leclerc not only has driven well in a questionably legal car in his career.

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Moore77
7
Joined: 29 Apr 2019, 12:03

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39
raymondu999 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 14:05
Zynerji wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 13:57
I'm sure Charles is a fine fellow. But his best results so far came in a car of questionable legality.
While this is true; I don't think the legality of the car affected the quality of his driving skill. He was given, in an algebraic analogy, "Equipment X" - but what results he pulled out would be seen relative to Equipment X. It's like an equation where both sides are divided by the same denominator. It cancels out, IMO.
Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
I see you are getting it all mixed up. First off, explain precisely how SF90 was "better than legal car" and why it was easier to drive.

Your daughter's example here is irrelevant. I would be happy to know, what exactly in SF90 that helped Leclerc perform better than Seb.

In his rookie season of 2018, he outperformed a more experienced driver who was his team mate and got some really good results in a Sauber. He then outperformed his more pro team mate in 2019 and he continues to do that in 2020 with a couple of podiums and some near podium results in what is occasionally, a 6th best car.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Moore77 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 19:33
Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39
raymondu999 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 14:05

While this is true; I don't think the legality of the car affected the quality of his driving skill. He was given, in an algebraic analogy, "Equipment X" - but what results he pulled out would be seen relative to Equipment X. It's like an equation where both sides are divided by the same denominator. It cancels out, IMO.
Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
I see you are getting it all mixed up. First off, explain precisely how SF90 was "better than legal car" and why it was easier to drive.

Your daughter's example here is irrelevant. I would be happy to know, what exactly in SF90 that helped Leclerc perform better than Seb.

In his rookie season of 2018, he outperformed a more experienced driver who was his team mate and got some really good results in a Sauber. He then outperformed his more pro team mate in 2019 and he continues to do that in 2020 with a couple of podiums and some near podium results in what is occasionally, a 6th best car.
And he has zero WDC trophies🙄

tnajner
tnajner
1
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 13:45

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 21:55
Moore77 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 19:33
Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39


Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
I see you are getting it all mixed up. First off, explain precisely how SF90 was "better than legal car" and why it was easier to drive.

Your daughter's example here is irrelevant. I would be happy to know, what exactly in SF90 that helped Leclerc perform better than Seb.

In his rookie season of 2018, he outperformed a more experienced driver who was his team mate and got some really good results in a Sauber. He then outperformed his more pro team mate in 2019 and he continues to do that in 2020 with a couple of podiums and some near podium results in what is occasionally, a 6th best car.
And he has zero WDC trophies🙄
... Take your time and read some Leclerc bio about his achievements in the junior categories. His achievements were previously managed only by the drivers like Lewis Hamilton

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Moore77
7
Joined: 29 Apr 2019, 12:03

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 21:55
Moore77 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 19:33
Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39


Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
I see you are getting it all mixed up. First off, explain precisely how SF90 was "better than legal car" and why it was easier to drive.

Your daughter's example here is irrelevant. I would be happy to know, what exactly in SF90 that helped Leclerc perform better than Seb.

In his rookie season of 2018, he outperformed a more experienced driver who was his team mate and got some really good results in a Sauber. He then outperformed his more pro team mate in 2019 and he continues to do that in 2020 with a couple of podiums and some near podium results in what is occasionally, a 6th best car.
And he has zero WDC trophies🙄
So is Max Verstappen. Based on your logic, they both will remain unproven talents until they win WDC.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39
raymondu999 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 14:05
Zynerji wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 13:57
I'm sure Charles is a fine fellow. But his best results so far came in a car of questionable legality.
While this is true; I don't think the legality of the car affected the quality of his driving skill. He was given, in an algebraic analogy, "Equipment X" - but what results he pulled out would be seen relative to Equipment X. It's like an equation where both sides are divided by the same denominator. It cancels out, IMO.
Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
The SF90 is probably faster than it would have been if it was legal. That is correct. But your traction control example, IMO — is not valid. Traction control is a driver aid, straight up. It removes the need for smooth application. But having a more powerful engine, is a completely different story. Having a more powerful engine does not make the car easier to drive. H
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

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Wouter
111
Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Seb lost by 3 votes.... 3 votes!! :(

The Power of Dreams!

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
0
Joined: 22 Oct 2018, 10:52

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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"Zynerji wrote: ↑19 Nov 2020, 17:12
[Leclerc] can still turn out to be another Hulk/Perez/Grosjean/Bottas."

I feel the same. Lecrec does not shows anything. He got team support so he is doing better than Vettel. in 2019, even with support from Binotto he matched Vettel.

Team support is important in F1. take an example of 2007, Alo Vs Ham. Ham got team support so Alo left the team.

Binotto have 2022 dead line, if he could not bring Ferrari to Front row, he will be gone by 2023 and Lecrec influence also disappear. Then Lecrec will be next Barichello or Massa in the team.

wait and watch...

mika vs michael
mika vs michael
-1
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 01:35

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Bottas is the next Barrichello.
"It is necessary to relax your muscles when you can. Relaxing your brain is fatal." Stirling Moss

I tried this and I had understeer, I tried that and I had oversteer, at the end of the corner I just run out of talent

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SiLo
138
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
30 Nov 2020, 07:34
"Zynerji wrote: ↑19 Nov 2020, 17:12
[Leclerc] can still turn out to be another Hulk/Perez/Grosjean/Bottas."

I feel the same. Lecrec does not shows anything. He got team support so he is doing better than Vettel. in 2019, even with support from Binotto he matched Vettel.

Team support is important in F1. take an example of 2007, Alo Vs Ham. Ham got team support so Alo left the team.

Binotto have 2022 dead line, if he could not bring Ferrari to Front row, he will be gone by 2023 and Lecrec influence also disappear. Then Lecrec will be next Barichello or Massa in the team.

wait and watch...
Hamilton didn't get team support. Initially Alonso got support and then McLaren gave both of them equal support.
Felipe Baby!

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
0
Joined: 22 Oct 2018, 10:52

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Ron knows Ham at the time of Hamilton's Karting age. It clears everything who got the support

ferkan
ferkan
31
Joined: 06 Apr 2015, 20:50

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39
raymondu999 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 14:05
Zynerji wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 13:57
I'm sure Charles is a fine fellow. But his best results so far came in a car of questionable legality.
While this is true; I don't think the legality of the car affected the quality of his driving skill. He was given, in an algebraic analogy, "Equipment X" - but what results he pulled out would be seen relative to Equipment X. It's like an equation where both sides are divided by the same denominator. It cancels out, IMO.
Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
So why did he have 7 poles in his rookie season vs 4xWDC that is Vettel who had 2? Vettel drove legal car, or? They are driving one right now and Vettel is getting beaten badly (worse then pretty much any other driver on grid).
Moore77 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 19:33
Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39
raymondu999 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 14:05

While this is true; I don't think the legality of the car affected the quality of his driving skill. He was given, in an algebraic analogy, "Equipment X" - but what results he pulled out would be seen relative to Equipment X. It's like an equation where both sides are divided by the same denominator. It cancels out, IMO.
Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
I see you are getting it all mixed up. First off, explain precisely how SF90 was "better than legal car" and why it was easier to drive.

Your daughter's example here is irrelevant. I would be happy to know, what exactly in SF90 that helped Leclerc perform better than Seb.

In his rookie season of 2018, he outperformed a more experienced driver who was his team mate and got some really good results in a Sauber. He then outperformed his more pro team mate in 2019 and he continues to do that in 2020 with a couple of podiums and some near podium results in what is occasionally, a 6th best car.
To be precise, in his rookie season Charles dominated Ericsson, a 4 year F1 veteran, by scoring 84% of Sauber points and by having 0.5s advantage on average in pace. He also beat him 16 v 3 in qualifying (having lost first 2 at beginning of season).

Just for comparison sake, Werhlein barely beat Ericsson by 1 point to 0 in his rookie season, but lost more races to Ericsson then he won against him. That puts things in perspective IMO.

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

ferkan wrote:
01 Dec 2020, 17:46
Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39
raymondu999 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 14:05

While this is true; I don't think the legality of the car affected the quality of his driving skill. He was given, in an algebraic analogy, "Equipment X" - but what results he pulled out would be seen relative to Equipment X. It's like an equation where both sides are divided by the same denominator. It cancels out, IMO.
Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
So why did he have 7 poles in his rookie season vs 4xWDC that is Vettel who had 2? Vettel drove legal car, or? They are driving one right now and Vettel is getting beaten badly (worse then pretty much any other driver on grid).
Moore77 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 19:33
Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39


Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
I see you are getting it all mixed up. First off, explain precisely how SF90 was "better than legal car" and why it was easier to drive.

Your daughter's example here is irrelevant. I would be happy to know, what exactly in SF90 that helped Leclerc perform better than Seb.

In his rookie season of 2018, he outperformed a more experienced driver who was his team mate and got some really good results in a Sauber. He then outperformed his more pro team mate in 2019 and he continues to do that in 2020 with a couple of podiums and some near podium results in what is occasionally, a 6th best car.
To be precise, in his rookie season Charles dominated Ericsson, a 4 year F1 veteran, by scoring 84% of Sauber points and by having 0.5s advantage on average in pace. He also beat him 16 v 3 in qualifying (having lost first 2 at beginning of season).

Just for comparison sake, Werhlein barely beat Ericsson by 1 point to 0 in his rookie season, but lost more races to Ericsson then he won against him. That puts things in perspective IMO.
I mean, its fine. Charles will suffer the same Ferrari Frustration that both Seb and Fernando were subjected to.

All while Seb takes Aston Martin to 3rd in the construction championship next year while Charles is stuck in Q2.

We will see who has the better plan over the next 2 years

ferkan
ferkan
31
Joined: 06 Apr 2015, 20:50

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Zynerji wrote:
01 Dec 2020, 21:10
ferkan wrote:
01 Dec 2020, 17:46
Zynerji wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 15:39


Meh...

A "better than legal" car will be easier to drive... Thats why traction control was such an attractive thing.

My 6 year old daughter could lap within 1 second of me on rFactor (2010 F1 cars, Monaco circuit). Turning on traction control, she became 2 seconds faster. I can see how the clock made her look like the best driver, but the hidden illegality of her car was truly the differentiator. Not her skill and experience.

I feel very similar with Charles.

Time will tell a more complete story, and I'm a patient one!
So why did he have 7 poles in his rookie season vs 4xWDC that is Vettel who had 2? Vettel drove legal car, or? They are driving one right now and Vettel is getting beaten badly (worse then pretty much any other driver on grid).
Moore77 wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 19:33
I see you are getting it all mixed up. First off, explain precisely how SF90 was "better than legal car" and why it was easier to drive.

Your daughter's example here is irrelevant. I would be happy to know, what exactly in SF90 that helped Leclerc perform better than Seb.

In his rookie season of 2018, he outperformed a more experienced driver who was his team mate and got some really good results in a Sauber. He then outperformed his more pro team mate in 2019 and he continues to do that in 2020 with a couple of podiums and some near podium results in what is occasionally, a 6th best car.
To be precise, in his rookie season Charles dominated Ericsson, a 4 year F1 veteran, by scoring 84% of Sauber points and by having 0.5s advantage on average in pace. He also beat him 16 v 3 in qualifying (having lost first 2 at beginning of season).

Just for comparison sake, Werhlein barely beat Ericsson by 1 point to 0 in his rookie season, but lost more races to Ericsson then he won against him. That puts things in perspective IMO.
I mean, its fine. Charles will suffer the same Ferrari Frustration that both Seb and Fernando were subjected to.

All while Seb takes Aston Martin to 3rd in the construction championship next year while Charles is stuck in Q2.

We will see who has the better plan over the next 2 years
This is similar line of thinking as one back in 2014 with Williams and F14T. I think Aston Martin took big leap duo to obvious copy paste job of 2019 winning car and best engine (not - "Hey, maybe we should try same approach to aero philosophy", literally copying which won't be legal next year), while Ferrari is lost duo to situation they got themselves into with last years engine and late ban, resulting in racing with drag heavy car and 50hp less then RP.

Next year, I have hard time imagining they won't be easy 3rd team on the grid. If you think Ferrari will be stuck in Q2, while even this year they are not always stuck in Q2, then I have a friendly advise - don't bet on it.