On the back of their partnership announcement with Ineos, Mercedes AMG F1 have today revealed the new car livery for the 2020 Formula One season. The new partnership sees the new silver arrows featuring red highlights for the first time since Mercedes returned to F1 in 2012.
This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
I'd hold off on writing off Bottas. He clearly was driving under a lot of pressure (pressure he himself put himself under), he was very messy and I wouldn't exactly call it a good display today - despite all that, I'd say both drivers were nigh on equal during the race on pace. That's actually a compliment to Russel - he drove very very good, much better than I anticipated based on the long run sims in FP2. I however wouldn't draw conclusions based on this track - it wasn't a very technical track, not many corners and the main competition was out. If Russel gets another go in Abu Dhabi, it's going to be a lot more telling how good he is.
I was actually more shocked to see Mercedes make such a huge mistake in the pits, in a race where they had zero competition. That was shocking.
In Ted's notebook he was suggesting that the quarantine requirements alone mean that Lewis is very unlikely to make a return for Abu Dhabi given that he is still reported to be feeling unwell.
Having had a mild case myself, it absolutely knocked me for 6 and took me a good few weeks to be back to normal. Obviously I am nowhere near Lewis' fitness level, but at the same time I also don't have to put my body through a gruelling Grand Prix weekend.
I strongly suspect we will see George in that car again this weekend.
It actually would not surprise me to see him in it in 2021 alongside Lewis.... Stranger things have happened...
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren
Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻♂️
despite all that, I'd say both drivers were nigh on equal during the race on pace. That's actually a compliment to Russel - he drove very very good, much better than I anticipated based on the long run sims in FP2.
BOT reduced the gap during the 2nd stint from about 8.5s to about 4ish. RUS may have almost won the race but I think he has some homework to do on the low-grip tyre. If it had remained a one-stop it would’ve been quite close at the end. Incidentally, I believe that might’ve been the general story during his practice runs, a bit down on BOT by something like 4tenths a lap?
I thought the gap reduction in the second stint was due to his HPP setting issues? The team were talking him through resetting some things on the wheel (since he didn't know how to fix it).
The way I remember it, a radio message by RUS was played; something about lack of power, Brundle then said in commentary he’d monitor RUSs laptime. Brundle looked at it and said whatever gremlin he was carrying had been sorted because his laptime had been restored; which is what you’d expect, you talk it out with the Engineer, switch changes are made, the race continues. Definitely something that affects a lap or two but not the entire stint. Anyway, I listened to the post-race interviews and nobody mentioned P/mode issues, so I don’t think that was it. RUS was just slower; it’s a bit too much of a reduction to be ‘race management’.
I'd hold off on writing off Bottas. He clearly was driving under a lot of pressure (pressure he himself put himself under), he was very messy and I wouldn't exactly call it a good display today - despite all that, I'd say both drivers were nigh on equal during the race on pace. That's actually a compliment to Russel - he drove very very good, much better than I anticipated based on the long run sims in FP2. I however wouldn't draw conclusions based on this track - it wasn't a very technical track, not many corners and the main competition was out. If Russel gets another go in Abu Dhabi, it's going to be a lot more telling how good he is.
I was actually more shocked to see Mercedes make such a huge mistake in the pits, in a race where they had zero competition. That was shocking.
I don’t know how you see that farce of a pitstop and believe it was orchestrated. That looked like a German GP ‘19 level of pitstop confusion; that looked like a genuine f*** up.
despite all that, I'd say both drivers were nigh on equal during the race on pace. That's actually a compliment to Russel - he drove very very good, much better than I anticipated based on the long run sims in FP2.
BOT reduced the gap during the 2nd stint from about 8.5s to about 4ish. RUS may have almost won the race but I think he has some homework to do on the low-grip tyre. If it had remained a one-stop it would’ve been quite close at the end. Incidentally, I believe that might’ve been the general story during his practice runs, a bit down on BOT by something like 4tenths a lap?
Tyre management in a car you don't know is not easy. It's the area where we know for sure Bottas had an advantage.
Well for me this is the first time I’ve seriously considered RUS in the 2nd seat. I subscribe to the good old-fashioned ‘show it on the racetrack’ assessment methodology, rather than hype. If it’s to actually be a conversation, then we need to know he’s better than BOT in management or we’re back to square one against HAM, no? You indicate it’s something he could learn as he gets more comfortable in the car, but if it’s that easy ALB would be nearer VER, OCO nearer RIC, STR nearer PER. That’s kind of my fear.
just goes to show that they do not need hamilton to win, that car is just next level! the car and the staff on that side of the garage! for me just shows that these 6 championships could have been won by anyone who sits in that car.
No, but it did show just as much that Bottas won't win with that car despite it being the best car.
Russell completely schooled Bottas, i'd imagine Ham vs Rus would be fireworks excitement of racing.
The thing is, Hamilton is superbly strong, but with Max around, it's not an easy 1-2 when Mercedes have Bottas aboard.
Instead, if they'd replace Bottas with Russell, it's definately easy 1-2 for Mercedes and Max gets a denied.
the weakest link obviously is Valterri. What an embarassment, Russell completely murdered him today. Not only did Russell qualify P2 by less than 3 hundreds of a second, in his debut GP with Merc and any 'real' F1 car, and not some 0.5 F1 car or 1.5 F2 car, essentially being like his real F1 race debut. He essentially has been nothing but doing testing for two seasons.
If only Mercedes had NOT called in their drivers in the SC window, then Russell would most definately have WON this GP.
yes i agree with you. bottas was just ...i dont even have the words for it...... however it does also make lewis look soft, like its easy for him because bottas is not up to par just as it was easy for russell you know what i mean?
just goes to show that they do not need hamilton to win, that car is just next level! the car and the staff on that side of the garage! for me just shows that these 6 championships could have been won by anyone who sits in that car.
No, but it did show just as much that Bottas won't win with that car despite it being the best car.
Russell completely schooled Bottas, i'd imagine Ham vs Rus would be fireworks excitement of racing.
The thing is, Hamilton is superbly strong, but with Max around, it's not an easy 1-2 when Mercedes have Bottas aboard.
Instead, if they'd replace Bottas with Russell, it's definately easy 1-2 for Mercedes and Max gets a denied.
the weakest link obviously is Valterri. What an embarassment, Russell completely murdered him today. Not only did Russell qualify P2 by less than 3 hundreds of a second, in his debut GP with Merc and any 'real' F1 car, and not some 0.5 F1 car or 1.5 F2 car, essentially being like his real F1 race debut. He essentially has been nothing but doing testing for two seasons.
If only Mercedes had NOT called in their drivers in the SC window, then Russell would most definately have WON this GP.
yes i agree with you. bottas was just ...i dont even have the words for it...... however it does also make lewis look soft, like its easy for him because bottas is not up to par just as it was easy for russell you know what i mean?
Doubt 2017-18 could have been won by anyone except Hamilton/Alonso especially now we know Ferrari had performance left on the table both those years. Also don't see how Hamilton looks bad out of this, if you are saying he is nothing special and it's all the car by extension you are saying Schumacher,Alonso, Rosberg and Button were crap, yes he has the best car and doesn't have to stretch since the middle part of 2018 but he has helped build the team to this level no doubt. He has beaten Button,Alonso and Rosberg and seen off Vettel. Yes he likes to project things are harder than they actually are and Bottas is better than he actually is because in his position who wouldn't. As for Russel he proved he is an elite talent just like Leclerc and Verstappen,on the pace since day one just like Alonso and Hamilton were back in the day, it would be a tragedy if he wasn't alongside Hamilton in 2022.
Last edited by tangodjango on 07 Dec 2020, 16:03, edited 1 time in total.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello
It doesn't neccesarily make Lewis look 'soft', it just confirms he has zero pressure from his teammate, it's just that i'm suprised by how weak Bottas has become then, and just how fantastic the Merc must be.
I don't think anything should be taken away by Hamilton and his results, after all, he's still there and he has wheeled in the results. It's also a fact that since Rosberg, his 'real' threat has actually not been Max, but Vettel in the Ferrari, so it's not like Lewis was never under any 'pressure', even if that was relatively low.
I've never ever been even remotely impressed with Bottas and i've been bummed when Bruno Senna was bumped in favour of Valterri, i think that was a mistake to be honest from the beginning but that's another story alltogether.
Either way, Bottas was bleak and clumsy in the Williams, he was just always 'perfectly' crafter to be Toto's sockpuppet, which eventually led him replacing Rosberg prematurely.
Nico was the only pressure and competition or threat Lewis HONESTLY had. Yes, as I stated above, Vettel did pressure him and 'hunted' him, but that should have been Bottas,
even in his lap dog puppet role Bottas wasn't even remotely such.
Did Valterri have some 'decent' results? Sure he does, he's a F1 driver after all and it's not like he's totally useless. But if we're going to look critically on him, I think he is even worse than Albon @ RedBull.
Again, to be completely obliterated by a rookie in his first ever real GP participation whilst crammed up in a car too small, uncomfortably, with boots a size smaller, not even knowing the steering wheel and settings and how the car drives, after being 'thrown' into that seat with just 2 to 3 days before you're supposed to go out and drive it, is just bonkers.
Look at how Aitken was doing, look at how Fittipaldi was doing, hell, look at any driver replacing one for that matter.
Russell has an extreme amount of talent, but i think it's also a case of Bottas being even worse than we thought.
The shameful excuses have already popped up, including waste of space Albon with his remarks, disconnected from reality.
I also must say it's been refreshing and exciting to be cheering for a 'new' driver after a long time.
I was on the front of my seat, and I think the last time i was 'cheering' for a driver was when Max won his first GP with RBR.
I was severely unimpressed with how Russell was stolen the deserved P1 by just dumb moves by no fault of his own.
Yes, these things happen, but it it still, unfortunately, happened.
I was and still am really mesmerized by how George 'repacked' himself after the pit stop retardation that he needed to change tires because
of the mixed compound, and was going for P1 again, which he 100% guaranteed would have managed to get if gremlins ended there.
Unfortunately, the slow puncture were the final headshot to his race.
But even then, he finished right behind Bottas.
Hell, let's concider that had that slow puncture NOT happened, and all the rest did, so including he had to come back into the pits for other tires,
which is what, 30 seconds?
George would have finished P1, and Bottas P9 for crying out loud.
Yes, it's true bottas pitstop took a lot of time, and that they gave him back his old tires, and then left him out on that, but then, Russell's had a car issue,
which they had to resolve through some steering wheel resets, which cost him precious time, then his own pitstop did take time in the chaos too.
Let's hope KingGeorge gets a fair chance for AbuDhabi.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
BOT reduced the gap during the 2nd stint from about 8.5s to about 4ish. RUS may have almost won the race but I think he has some homework to do on the low-grip tyre. If it had remained a one-stop it would’ve been quite close at the end. Incidentally, I believe that might’ve been the general story during his practice runs, a bit down on BOT by something like 4tenths a lap?
Tyre management in a car you don't know is not easy. It's the area where we know for sure Bottas had an advantage.
Well for me this is the first time I’ve seriously considered RUS in the 2nd seat. I subscribe to the good old-fashioned ‘show it on the racetrack’ assessment methodology, rather than hype. If it’s to actually be a conversation, then we need to know he’s better than BOT in management or we’re back to square one against HAM, no? You indicate it’s something he could learn as he gets more comfortable in the car, but if it’s that easy ALB would be nearer VER, OCO nearer RIC, STR nearer PER. That’s kind of my fear.
You never know for sure how fast a driver will learn. However Russel is doing a good job in the Williams for the past two years, got into the Mercedes this weekend, had trouble remembering all the buttons (as we saw after his first pitstop), the car was very uncomfortable for him (room and control ergonomics, he's a lot taller than Hamilton), and got into a car at the second to last race (Bottas been driving it all season and raced the car around 80% of the same track the week before)...
I understand the fear, but after 3 seasons with Mercedes we know for sure there are better drivers than Bottas.
Yesterday we had an opportunity to witness another driver in the Mercedes, I think Russel made a strong case for himself.
In many ways 2020 has been a great season for F1, we had the chance to evaluate different drivers in the same cars, we had a chance to see races on new places, try new formats...
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel
Funny thing that Hamilton being able to race this week-end will depend on the local authorities giving him a special dispensation to join the paddock from what it is been reported in the press.
That BLM thing could play a role this time maybe?
I haven't watched all races this season due to the snooze fest, but he seems weak on Sundays. Russel would be a better investment for Mercedes. Maybe Red Bull will snatch him in the end.
I haven't watched all races this season due to the snooze fest, but he seems weak on Sundays. Russel would be a better investment for Mercedes. Maybe Red Bull will snatch him in the end.
Funny thing that Hamilton being able to race this week-end will depend on the local authorities giving him a special dispensation to join the paddock from what it is been reported in the press.
That BLM thing could play a role this time maybe?
I was thinking this. It wouldn't surprise me because he brings so much more interest to the sport than anyone else.
Even this weekend the story was him not being there!
