[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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JordanMugen
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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etusch wrote:
10 Dec 2020, 18:59
Why they didn't change tyre instead of aero.
...because the 2020 all-new 13" tyres were already rejected? Hence 2019 tyres are used for 2020, and unexpectedly again for 2021 albeit with a reinforced carcass.

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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JordanMugen wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 13:09
GhostF1 wrote:
09 Dec 2020, 01:55
2020 - No engine upgrades permitted in season (same spec since Austria).
2021 - New engine allowed to be introduced at the start and then allowed 1 subsequent upgrade during the season
2022 - As above
Will a 2021 spec Honda unit really be so uncompetitive in 2022 on, if Red Bull insist on using the Honda and an early December 2021 power unit freeze cannot be agreed?
Honda is staying and developing the power unit until the end of 2021 and bringing forward the development of the 2022 unit. I think Honda is leaving RBR with a start of season 2022 power unit, after that they're on their own.
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Marti_EF3
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Mercedes is destroying RB on the 3rd sector. The difference is abismal #-o

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nzjrs
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Yeah, they need to find some time overnight if we want an exciting race.

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Not really, we can't say anything from practice. Heavy fuel they're doing low 43's. Mercedes was capable of doing mid high 42's last year, so I'm guessing they can do low 42's this year. In FP2 Verstappen did 2 laps high 41's.

Last year once Verstappen cleared LeClerc Verstappen had slightly more pace than Hamilton. I expect Mercedes to still be ahead but Verstappen will be close enough to stay within 5 seconds. The start and qualifying will be important, the gap to P1 was .36 last year, I hope they can be a little closer this year. If either Mercedes driver makes a mistake he'll have enough pace to stay ahead.

Looks like there's .8 difference between the hard and soft tires, and another .9 to the prototype tires. If we subtract 1.7 from Mercedes FP2 times we get mid 41's. So perhaps there's still .3 between Merc and Ver.
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Marti_EF3
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 20:43
Not really, we can't say anything from practice. Heavy fuel they're doing low 43's. Mercedes was capable of doing mid high 42's last year, so I'm guessing they can do low 42's this year. In FP2 Verstappen did 2 laps high 41's.

Last year once Verstappen cleared LeClerc Verstappen had slightly more pace than Hamilton. I expect Mercedes to still be ahead but Verstappen will be close enough to stay within 5 seconds. The start and qualifying will be important, the gap to P1 was .36 last year, I hope they can be a little closer this year. If either Mercedes driver makes a mistake he'll have enough pace to stay ahead.

Looks like there's .8 difference between the hard and soft tires, and another .9 to the prototype tires. If we subtract 1.7 from Mercedes FP2 times we get mid 41's. So perhaps there's still .3 between Merc and Ver.
Looking at the run with mediums, Bottas was 0.5 faster on 3rd sector alone. That's a LOT, and there is where almost all 90º corners are...

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 23:23
godlameroso wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 20:43
Not really, we can't say anything from practice. Heavy fuel they're doing low 43's. Mercedes was capable of doing mid high 42's last year, so I'm guessing they can do low 42's this year. In FP2 Verstappen did 2 laps high 41's.

Last year once Verstappen cleared LeClerc Verstappen had slightly more pace than Hamilton. I expect Mercedes to still be ahead but Verstappen will be close enough to stay within 5 seconds. The start and qualifying will be important, the gap to P1 was .36 last year, I hope they can be a little closer this year. If either Mercedes driver makes a mistake he'll have enough pace to stay ahead.

Looks like there's .8 difference between the hard and soft tires, and another .9 to the prototype tires. If we subtract 1.7 from Mercedes FP2 times we get mid 41's. So perhaps there's still .3 between Merc and Ver.
Looking at the run with mediums, Bottas was 0.5 faster on 3rd sector alone. That's a LOT, and there is where almost all 90º corners are...
You're comparing fast laps, you're not comparing race pace, it's not that far off.
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nzjrs
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Ignoring the long-runs, I was a little concerned because they seemed to abort a number (more than usual?) of fast lap attempts because they had run out of tires for the 3rd sector.

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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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JordanMugen wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 13:12
etusch wrote:
10 Dec 2020, 18:59
Why they didn't change tyre instead of aero.
...because the 2020 all-new 13" tyres were already rejected? Hence 2019 tyres are used for 2020, and unexpectedly again for 2021 albeit with a reinforced carcass.
I mean by saying change tyre, make it capable with more pressure. If there were a emergency (we see that there is not) for safety they can push for it. They can go one harder tyre choise for races onligated +1 pit stop etc.
I mean it must be well studied rules and changes and all of them must be same direction.

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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nzjrs wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 23:47
Ignoring the long-runs, I was a little concerned because they seemed to abort a number (more than usual?) of fast lap attempts because they had run out of tires for the 3rd sector.
Or energy. Depends how long and where you KERS boost will affect tire life. So maybe a balance needs to be struck, even though the driver can stay flat, maybe full deployment is not wise, but rather in the areas where speed is scrubbed.

By my guess it's the rears that are suffering the most, and perhaps the mediums although slower, suffer less from the heating meaning they're more consistent over the lap, the hards more so. Meaning the gaps over one lap are smaller than usual .6 from hardest to softest, and the hard tire clearly being the better race tire.
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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 23:23
godlameroso wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 20:43
Not really, we can't say anything from practice. Heavy fuel they're doing low 43's. Mercedes was capable of doing mid high 42's last year, so I'm guessing they can do low 42's this year. In FP2 Verstappen did 2 laps high 41's.

Last year once Verstappen cleared LeClerc Verstappen had slightly more pace than Hamilton. I expect Mercedes to still be ahead but Verstappen will be close enough to stay within 5 seconds. The start and qualifying will be important, the gap to P1 was .36 last year, I hope they can be a little closer this year. If either Mercedes driver makes a mistake he'll have enough pace to stay ahead.

Looks like there's .8 difference between the hard and soft tires, and another .9 to the prototype tires. If we subtract 1.7 from Mercedes FP2 times we get mid 41's. So perhaps there's still .3 between Merc and Ver.
Looking at the run with mediums, Bottas was 0.5 faster on 3rd sector alone. That's a LOT, and there is where almost all 90º corners are...
I watched that run, no major errors by Max but it was a struggle in sector 3. There was more speed on the table. In fact, purple s1 and up by 1.something tenths after s2.

The soft run got killed by Perez on his long run. The intent was visible. I do not expect him at RBR next year.

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holeindalip
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 20:43
Not really, we can't say anything from practice. Heavy fuel they're doing low 43's. Mercedes was capable of doing mid high 42's last year, so I'm guessing they can do low 42's this year. In FP2 Verstappen did 2 laps high 41's.

Last year once Verstappen cleared LeClerc Verstappen had slightly more pace than Hamilton. I expect Mercedes to still be ahead but Verstappen will be close enough to stay within 5 seconds. The start and qualifying will be important, the gap to P1 was .36 last year, I hope they can be a little closer this year. If either Mercedes driver makes a mistake he'll have enough pace to stay ahead.

Looks like there's .8 difference between the hard and soft tires, and another .9 to the prototype tires. If we subtract 1.7 from Mercedes FP2 times we get mid 41's. So perhaps there's still .3 between Merc and Ver.
He might be able to stay within 5 sec just because merc will allow them too not from outright pace, no way

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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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If I didn't heard wrong Ham I told he lost on straights to Redbull. It looks like Honda also released some horses for last race.

GhostF1
GhostF1
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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JordanMugen wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 13:09
GhostF1 wrote:
09 Dec 2020, 01:55
2020 - No engine upgrades permitted in season (same spec since Austria).
2021 - New engine allowed to be introduced at the start and then allowed 1 subsequent upgrade during the season
2022 - As above
Will a 2021 spec Honda unit really be so uncompetitive in 2022 on, if Red Bull insist on using the Honda and an early December 2021 power unit freeze cannot be agreed?
We'll have to wait and see where the engines are at the end of the season next year. We know Honda have a new engine and a plan for an updated unit mid-late season. If they can continue to develop to the end of the year to where Red Bull will have the 2021 year ending engine but with some further updates. They could get away with it.

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Marti_EF3
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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etusch wrote:
12 Dec 2020, 12:50
If I didn't heard wrong Ham I told he lost on straights to Redbull. It looks like Honda also released some horses for last race.
Mercedes always run detuned on FP3. I won't take that too seriously