WEC 2020 Tech Regulations - Hypercar Regulations

[JordanMugen]

I'm sure I've said this before, but we have LMhypercar, LMh

What's the difference between LMhypercar and LMh?

[JordanMugen]

Is anyone cool with that? Seems so arbitrary and pointless to enter because you do too well and the BOP your advantage out. It's not a proper competition.

They should have agreed one set of rules for IMSA, LMP2 and LMP[not 1] in the first place!

Put all the prototypes in a single unified LMP class I say (works homologated chassis needing to be made available to privateers at a fixed price), with some formula to paritise the different engine layouts (with privateers running the Gibson V8 engine having a guarantee they can be just as competitive as entrants running any other homologated engine, and works homologated engines needing to be made available to privateers at a fixed price too) and some inexpensive spec hybrid system (say akin to the one in BTCC).

[WRC missed a trick by not adopting Super 2000 as the outright class back in the day by the same token, IMO. Having 30-40 cars in the outright class of WRC or LMP would be glorious!]

[NL_Fer]

So the main difference: LMH will have a 200Kw Electric powertrain on the frontwheels, LMDh a 50kw electric motor connected to the crankshaft, but combined power (ICE+Electric) is 500kwh, same as LMDh. So comparable performance, better fuel economy. LMH can have less fuel in the tank.

Also a custom chassis, which could result in more mechanical grip and better tyre wear. Aero would be equalized between LMH LMDh.

Could be interesting, could be a dissaster.

[jjn9128]

I'm sure I've said this before, but we have LMhypercar, LMh

What's the difference between LMhypercar and LMh?

Wait... It's difficult to keep track of these acronyms. There's a hypercar (LMPH?) and a non-hybrid prototype (LMP1), then the Daytona crossover hybrid (LMDh) which is a LMP2 chassis with a manufacturer specific nose.

[Stu]

I'm sure I've said this before, but we have LMhypercar, LMh

What's the difference between LMhypercar and LMh?

Wait... It's difficult to keep track of these acronyms. There's a hypercar (LMPH?) and a non-hybrid prototype (LMP1), then the Daytona crossover hybrid (LMDh) which is a LMP2 chassis with a manufacturer specific nose.

Yes. Sounds like a recipe for disaster....

But then, historically, the FIA/FISA have always had F1’s back. They have killed endurance racing at various times, pushing F1 further to the fore.

[Jolle]

What's the difference between LMhypercar and LMh?

Wait... It's difficult to keep track of these acronyms. There's a hypercar (LMPH?) and a non-hybrid prototype (LMP1), then the Daytona crossover hybrid (LMDh) which is a LMP2 chassis with a manufacturer specific nose.

Yes. Sounds like a recipe for disaster....

But then, historically, the FIA/FISA have always had F1’s back. They have killed endurance racing at various times, pushing F1 further to the fore.

Endurance racing needs a thrilling fight between two or three manufacturers. Until those stand up and out their full weight behind Le Mans, it’s survival time with spec series and private teams.

[graham.reeds]

What I want to see is a Bugatti being chased by a Keonigsegg.

Do these new rules allow this?

[Stu]

Wait... It's difficult to keep track of these acronyms. There's a hypercar (LMPH?) and a non-hybrid prototype (LMP1), then the Daytona crossover hybrid (LMDh) which is a LMP2 chassis with a manufacturer specific nose.

Yes. Sounds like a recipe for disaster....

But then, historically, the FIA/FISA have always had F1’s back. They have killed endurance racing at various times, pushing F1 further to the fore.

Endurance racing needs a thrilling fight between two or three manufacturers. Until those stand up and out their full weight behind Le Mans, it’s survival time with spec series and private teams.

Exactly! Although two/three entrants is not enough; five/six is better. The LMDh rules allow that to happen.
The last time that I can recall that happening at the top level was during the GT1 era, but then it was allowed to move away from (limited) production ‘Hypercars’ to prototypes and the usual Willy-waving contest was allowed to get out of hand (because the FIA didn’t want to upset certain manufacturers - where are they now...?).
You see the same thing with GT3; at the top level it has turned into GTE, which is just another layer of expense that only manufacturers can really afford. GT3 IS a great competition. LMDh will be a great competition (it already is in USA), LMH is a dead-end.

[NL_Fer]

What I want to see is a Bugatti being chased by a Keonigsegg.

Do these new rules allow this?

The rules allow it, but the budget of the manufacturers will not.

[Scorpaguy]

What I want to see is a Bugatti being chased by a Keonigsegg.

Do these new rules allow this?

The rules allow it, but the budget of the manufacturers will not.

IIRC, LMh (some are using LMPh) was supposed to pave the way for such. AM Valkrie et al were going to be the saviors of the top tier. The new regs were met with all sorts of fanfare and hope. Then AM reneged...the Toyota LMh looks a proper abortion...and LMh seems to have passed prior to starting. Yes, I too wanted to see the supercar battles...however, in hindsight I believe there were 2 realities we did not consider:

1. These new hypercar manufactures have mindsets in straight-line speed and You-Tube-esque video clips...not endurance/sportscar racing.

2. Of all the possible contenders....I seriously doubt any were designed in mind for durability/reliability.

However, based on #2 above...maybe that is in fact the rationale to race these things thusly. Back in the 70's, there was as much racing in the pits as there was on track.

[Cold Fussion]

Meanwhile you could sprinkle a little BOP dust and still have Nissan and Aston Martin works teams racing for outright victory (or at least within a lap or two of the leaders and not slower than LMP2!), at a sensible cost...

You could not BOP the 2014 LMP1 cars with that joke of a Nissan because then you would have had LMP1 being slower than LMP2. The primary problem of the Aston LMP1 was their atrocious reliability, especially the engine, how could you possibly BOP a car with that shocking of reliability? If your goal is to show how wonderful BOP by saying two of the shitest endurance race cars ever made could have been competitive then I think you should ask yourself why you would want anything other than a complete spec series anyway.

[JordanMugen]

If your goal is to show how wonderful BOP by saying two of the shitest endurance race cars ever made could have been competitive then I think you should ask yourself why you would want anything other than a complete spec series anyway.

If two of the premier car manufacturers in the world cannot produce a competitive LMP car on a sensible budget, it suggests there is something wrong with the regulations, wouldn't you say?

Car manufacturers willing to go sportscar racing in the prototype class are not so easy to find... To lose two major entrants was a failure of LMP1.

[Cold Fussion]

Yet Rebellion and the much maligned ByKolles team manage to put up much more competitive cars than either of those two totally incompetent manufacture backed efforts. The real reason LMP1 ultimately failed has nothing to do with LMP1 but everything to do with VAG's emissions cheating.

[JordanMugen]

The real reason LMP1 ultimately failed has nothing to do with LMP1 but everything to do with VAG's emissions cheating.

I can't say I agree. Why should diesels engines be promoted in racing in the first place!?

The proper equivalence is very hard to settle on.

[Cold Fussion]

The real reason LMP1 ultimately failed has nothing to do with LMP1 but everything to do with VAG's emissions cheating.

I can't say I agree. Why should diesels engines be promoted in racing in the first place!?

The proper equivalence is very hard to settle on.

The reason VAG pulled out is because of the massive fines they were handed. If not for that you would more than likely still have Porsche and Audi in LMP1 + 2 non factory teams. That's more than enough for a healthy grid especially if the ACO didn't/don't push the calendar too hard. Up until Audi pulled out LMP1 was the best class of the racing in the world. You had a fairly open set of technical regulations that resulted in a diverse range of technical solutions, with cars that were visibility differentiated from one another, while still affording close competitive racing (in both outright performance and on track combat). With the high reliability you had essentially endurance length sprint racing which sufficiently differentiates it from other classes of racing. Go and watch some of races from 2015 and tell me that the ACO got LMP1 wrong.