2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[LM10]

I do not have the details of the voting rules. But I've read that all current manufacturers have 1 vote. Honda isn't gone yet. So it should be 28 if the above is correct. Let us assume the FIA does not object. I would expect Mercedes + mb driven teams to be in favour of the deal too. That would make up for 8 votes included Honda, RB and AT. Making a total of 28 votes. Clearly, that isn't the case....

It’s more complicated than that...My understanding is

Ferrari teams want a balance of performance clause introduced incase they still have a power deficit when the freeze happens

Redbull & AT happy to go along with this to get the PU freeze over the line

Merc teams & Renault are happy for freeze as long as there is no balance of performance

That’s 5 teams in each camp

What's your source for that part in bold? The only thing I've read is that Ferrari only wants to agree to an engine freeze if the new engine regulations move forward from 2026 to 2025. And that makes sense because, as I've told already, Ferrari surely don't want to have equal engines, but a better one than that of Mercedes (obviously).

I've not further replied to you on that matter last time because it's off-topic in this thread. To shortly answer your question what makes me sure Ferrari could as well have a better engine than Mercedes until 2023: Well, they already have had a better one in 2018 and 2019, didn't they? It was operating in a grey area, but obviously in such way that other manufacturers were desperately scratching their heads trying to find out the secret. The knowledge of that grey area is a valuable thing after all. And it only shows that they are capable of doing something.

I'm not saying that's going to be the case, but the way you look at that surely is not the correct way either: "7 years and they're still 50 hp behind". It's a bit more complicated than that.

[the EDGE]

I do not have the details of the voting rules. But I've read that all current manufacturers have 1 vote. Honda isn't gone yet. So it should be 28 if the above is correct. Let us assume the FIA does not object. I would expect Mercedes + mb driven teams to be in favour of the deal too. That would make up for 8 votes included Honda, RB and AT. Making a total of 28 votes. Clearly, that isn't the case....

It’s more complicated than that...My understanding is

Ferrari teams want a balance of performance clause introduced incase they still have a power deficit when the freeze happens

Redbull & AT happy to go along with this to get the PU freeze over the line

Merc teams & Renault are happy for freeze as long as there is no balance of performance

That’s 5 teams in each camp

What's your source for that part in bold? The only thing I've read is that Ferrari only wants to agree to an engine freeze if the new engine regulations move forward from 2026 to 2025. And that makes sense because, as I've told already, Ferrari surely don't want to have equal engines, but a better one than that of Mercedes (obviously).

I've not further replied to you on that matter last time because it's off-topic in this thread. To shortly answer your question what makes me sure Ferrari could as well have a better engine than Mercedes until 2023: Well, they already have had a better one in 2018 and 2019, didn't they? It was operating in a grey area, but obviously in such way that other manufacturers were desperately scratching their heads trying to find out the secret. The knowledge of that grey area is a valuable thing after all. And it only shows that they are capable of doing something.

I'm not saying that's going to be the case, but the way you look at that surely is not the correct way either: "7 years and they're still 50 hp behind". It's a bit more complicated than that.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/27/fer ... rformance/

https://the-race.com/formula-1/wolff-en ... nd-for-f1/

https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/28/riv ... ult-wolff/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espn ... atform=amp

https://www.racefans.net/2020/10/27/red ... ne-freeze/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cras ... idea%3famp

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... nvergence/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.auto ... nsult/amp/

[LM10]

https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/27/fer ... rformance/

https://the-race.com/formula-1/wolff-en ... nd-for-f1/

https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/28/riv ... ult-wolff/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espn ... atform=amp

https://www.racefans.net/2020/10/27/red ... ne-freeze/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cras ... idea%3famp

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... nvergence/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.auto ... nsult/amp/

Well, thank you for all the links.

I must say, I absolutelty agree with Wolff on this matter. Every manufacturer should improve and try to achieve other's performance level on their own. No need for extra regulations and as he says, that would be some kind of a humiliation.

This actually doesn't really go hand in hand with F1's aim to reduce costs as Ferrari and others will pump several millions into PU development, but that's something which isn't regulated by the cost cap (yet).

[the EDGE]

Well, thank you for all the links.

I must say, I absolutelty agree with Wolff on this matter. Every manufacturer should improve and try to achieve other's performance level on their own. No need for extra regulations and as he says, that would be some kind of a humiliation.

This actually doesn't really go hand in hand with F1's aim to reduce costs as Ferrari and others will pump several millions into PU development, but that's something which isn't regulated by the cost cap (yet).

It’s worth remembering why this is in the Redbull thread… they are the ones pushing for the engine freeze, which in theory ALL teams are in favour of, as no one wants to spend unnecessary cash at present

It’s not that Ferrari want to throw the towel in, they are just quite rightly saying we can not agree to change the rules to lock-in a potential power deficit for x number of years for the benefit of RB, and have proposed a solution which would allow them to get-onboard with the freeze

[toraabe]

Sadly I only see this going 1 way, engine freeze with performance balance

FIA 10 - want level playing field
F1 10 - want level playing field
RB 1 - want engine freeze
At - 1 want engine freest
Honda 1 - will side with RB/AT
Ferrari 2 - want to be on par with MB
HASS 1 - will side with Ferrari
AT 1 - will side with Ferrari

Total 27 - vote passed

Why sadly? That's good, that's excellent news!

Great for the engine manufacturers to no longer be throwing money into a bottomless pit, all the manufacturers including RB-Honda, Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes-HPP should be well pleased with that outcome.

It would not be unwelcome to have similar mandated targets for aero drag and aero downforce too, like in LMHypercar. That would allow the constructors to stop throwing money into a bottomless aero money pit too.

There would still be scope to tune things away from the homologation reference points, but it should create a closer field and better racing.

This is F1, not a spec series, however as you say, it is 1 step closer to it

Seeing as this website is entitled F1Technical & not F1fandom I would have thought everyone here would not be in favour of moving to a spec series

50% of my enjoyment from F1 comes from the teams competing to make the best car or the best PU, BOP is not a route I want the sport to go down on either PU or aero

And as for Mercedes or Renault being happy? Are you serious? They spend millions on making their PU and are told well done lads, your reward is Ferrari can use more fuel/hour than you as they didn’t do a very good job. They will be furious not elated

If ferrari is allowed to use more fuel than the others it will be a big disadvantage at the start of the race. More weight..

[the EDGE]

I believe it’s the maximum fuel flow rate That would be adjusted, not the total amount of fuel

If rumours are to be believed, exactly like what they were suspected of doing in 2019, didn’t seem to affect their performance then at the start of the race

[Wouter]

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/an-eveni ... 7893650351

[Manoah2u]

I can see why Albon isn't smiling though

[Wouter]

Amazing and funny! 10 pictures from this fan from Austin.
She painted it herself and made a toddler sized uniform.

[Just_a_fan]

Is Max old enough to drive that?

[NathanOlder]

Is Max old enough to drive that?

Thats not Max's. It still has a front wing on it

Looks good though

[godlameroso]

That's some good paint work.

[dans79]

That's some good paint work.

I took a quick look, and I see some obvious photoshop work. To me, the decals look like old school water slide decals you would get with models as a kid.

[Racer X]

Amazing and funny!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKsnwCeAKPq/

I had no idea they gave Yuki Tsunoda a test with the 2020 RedBull during the winter season.
Even Max and Pérez haven't gotten that chance.

[Wouter]

That's some good paint work.

I took a quick look, and I see some obvious photoshop work. To me, the decals look like old school water slide decals you would get with models as a kid.

Photoshop work? I do not think so. She probably put stickers from the sponsors and other images on it ,
but that's not called photoshopping.
I just love that a fan goes to such lengths to do something so original.
You have to come up with the idea of ​​painting that toddler walker like this!
She even gave / painted the car yellow Pirelli tires.