2009 Testing - March (Jerez & Barcelona)

[nudger]

That's the reason why everybody is looking the nose of the Mclaren. What's that gadget¿?
quote]

To me it looks like plastic, as if they've been sent the improvements to make from the factory and obviously couldnt re-make a whole new wing.

not plastic, its the rapid prototype construction. Its not unusual for parts to be used as a finished product made with that stuff these days.

[hulmerist]

so what's the likelihood mclaren are actually hiding something really inventive? have people been known to do this in the past?

or are they so confident in the speed of their car they're only focusing on long race runs etc

their lack of pace is worrying me somewhat

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Well I read on F1T news that Mclaren were doing controlled on track draining of the fuel tank on track. Suggests (very) high fuel loads maybe?

And a recent (ish) pic from Portimao taken weeks ago just makes our speculation a little more wild. I'm not too worried.

There is suggestions that Pat Symonds was reffering to Mclaren when saying "A team lucked into a design that works." I read that interview and never at any point got the impression he was reffering to Mclaren. I thought he was possibly reffering to Honda.

And people may say "Others have agreed that that's what Mclaren did." who cares, envy can be an atrocious thing. Just because a rival team thinks one team lucked into a design that worksdoesn't mnean its true. I mean, honestly, how do they know?If they know that much maybe we should open another spygate scandel? lol. Are we forgetting that Mclaren are the most successful F1 team behind Ferrari (and Ferrari existed over a decade before Mclaren did). History has relevance and the guys at Mclaren are more than capable of doing a good job.

The concept, to me at least, that these guys blindly walked into a design that works and have not the slightest incling as to why is laughable, truely laughable. As if this team of highly skilled engineers are clueless idiots. 162 Wins, 8 Constructors and 12 Drivers titles suggests otherwise.

Now I'm not saying they are infalliable. Of course they could have designed a bad car (look at Renaults fall from grace, it can happen to anyone) And yes Ferrari had a 21 year barren spell but upon reflection that seemed to be largely because in the later years the teams organisation was pathetic. But as donskar pointed out, Mclaren are a big team and can develop a car. Only a fool would write them off completly at this stage, and that's why nobody at Ferrari, for example, have done so as yet. The most damning comments so far are Toyota's Pascal Vasselon "[they]Seem to be having probems.", not exactly an apocalypic analysis now is it.

I just have a feeling they'll be "alright on the night".

[imightbewrong]

Trulli hitting the kerb a bit to hard, lost his front wing. Instant classic:

[Spencifer_Murphy]

See now THAT suprises me because this year the FW's are wider, so its more likely they'll get hit, add in trhe fact that a more forward weight bais is favourable, I'd have thought the designers would have made the FW's a little more....robust.

[RJMB]

"the english" had a pretty impressive time 1:19.632 in Jerez earlier this month... shey should just back up to where they were then... or maybe they really arent in any trouble at all.

http://www.mclaren.com/f1season/jerez-feb09-13.php

I have been following the testing in detail this year and fear this timing is slightly misleading. Hamilton was behind Alonso all test. In the last few minutes he did two runs (I believe 3 laps each (inc. in and out)) and in his second run posted an Alonso beating time with a minute to go.

[kilcoo316]

See now THAT suprises me because this year the FW's are wider, so its more likely they'll get hit, add in trhe fact that a more forward weight bais is favourable, I'd have thought the designers would have made the FW's a little more....robust.

The way its detached it just looks like a bad bond between pylons and nose to be honest...


I'm somewhat surprised they don't lay the pylon right out over the nose - so effectively the plies on the two pylons (or at least some of them) are composed of one mat.

[Miguel]

OK, I do think that BAR lucked into a fast design. It was extremely fast in 2004 and was also pretty good in 2006. I also think that had the 2006 Honda been gentler with the rear tyres, they would have posed a very considerable threat to Renault and Ferrari that year.

However, I think most of the paddock is still wondering how a car that wasn't that fast (MP4-21) became a Ferrari match as soon as the Bridgestone tires were shod. With the equations being chaotic and all, it's possible that the aero improved considerably with the new tires, and the suspension geometry could be close to the Bridgestone ideal. I understand that Renault were pretty pissed with this. Keep in mind too that MP4-22 and -23 are very similar, so some teams may think... for whatever reason... that...

But that's not my opinion. I find it terribly funny that two weeks ago the Renault was ---. They were going to finish behind Force India. Sorry, Force india, Mr Ecclestone. Today, the McLaren is crap, but the Alonso-R29 isn't. Could it be that the Mac is fast, but the rear suspension is a tad too aggressive for long stints?

In short, I mostly agree with Spencifer. McLaren engineers may be clueless and uninteligent, but then they are very successful clueles and uninteligent engineers. In that case, that doesn't speak too well of the other teams.

[Shaddock]

.

There is suggestions that Pat Symonds was reffering to Mclaren when saying "A team lucked into a design that works." I read that interview and never at any point got the impression he was reffering to Mclaren. I thought he was possibly reffering to Honda.

The interview was done in July/August 2007.
McLaren were fast in 2007 winning 8 races, in 2006 they scored no wins.
Honda scored 6 points all season in 2007.

The chronology and point standings would suggest in was McLaren he was referring to and not Honda.


PS: That’s true, and I know for a fact that one of our rivals, who are doing a lot better this year than last year, are doing so because they have lucked in. And they don’t know why.

MB: McLaren?

PS: no reply – (MB: I can tell you for sure he means McLaren, because I’ve heard exactly the same remark made by other team’s engineers about them)

[Spencifer_Murphy]

The interview was done in July/August 2007.

REALLY?! I remember reading it whilst on holiday (my copy arrived thru the post just days before I left!) but I thought it must have been a couple years ago. Blimey my mind must be going!

i think most of the paddock is still wondering how a car that wasn't that fast (MP4-21) became a Ferrari match as soon as the Bridgestone tires were shod

Same way a championship winning car like the R25 & R26 then led to the R27...only in reverse, and MUCH less dramatically. The MP4-21 was a fast car (3rd in the constructors race that year) and the MP4-20 took Mclaren to 2nd the year before that. (each year the team scored 182 & 110 points respectively) So they didn't improve THAT much. Whereas the Renault went from back-to-back champions to 3rd and 4th (even with those two wins courtesy of some awesome driving from Fernando) and while that doesn't appear to be such a huge fall from grace they only scored 51 & 80 points in '07 & '08....this is compared to 191 & 206 for their two title years. That's a HUGE drop relative to Mclaren's jump up the field.

It could be that Mclaren lucked into a design in as much as they bolted on the bridgestones and the car flew, and they didn't know why THE TYRES had such a significant effect. But I doubt that they are brainless to the extent that they had no idea why the car is fast.

Finding out why a car is fast is EASY compared to figuring out why it ISN'T.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Trulli hitting the kerb a bit to hard, lost his front wing. Instant classic:

It doesn't look like that happened when the car was at any great speed... it would have just gone straight underneath... Maybe he jumped on it in frustration after breaking down?

[Moanlower]

So far Button on top on a damped track at Catalunya.

1. J. Button Brawn GP BGP 001 1:23.064 10 pit
2. J. Trulli Toyota TF109 1:23.603 +0.539 13 pit
3. N. Piquet Jr. Renault R29 1:23.755 +0.691 15 pit
4. A. Sutil Force India VJM-02 1:24.199 +1.135 20 pit
5. K. Nakajima Williams FW31 1:24.532 +1.468 17 pit
6. K. Räikkönen Ferrari F60 1:24.640 +1.576 17 pit
7. M. Webber Red Bull Racing RB5 1:24.669 +1.605 20 pit
8. S. Bourdais Toro Rosso STR4 1:25.147 +2.083 17 pit
9. H. Kovalainen McLaren MP4-24 1:25.999 +2.935 12 pit

[imightbewrong]

New toyota frontwing it seems..


old:

[rjsa]

So far Button on top on a damped track at Catalunya.

1. J. Button Brawn GP BGP 001 1:23.064 10 pit
2. J. Trulli Toyota TF109 1:23.603 +0.539 13 pit
3. N. Piquet Jr. Renault R29 1:23.755 +0.691 15 pit
4. A. Sutil Force India VJM-02 1:24.199 +1.135 20 pit
5. K. Nakajima Williams FW31 1:24.532 +1.468 17 pit
6. K. Räikkönen Ferrari F60 1:24.640 +1.576 17 pit
7. M. Webber Red Bull Racing RB5 1:24.669 +1.605 20 pit
8. S. Bourdais Toro Rosso STR4 1:25.147 +2.083 17 pit
9. H. Kovalainen McLaren MP4-24 1:25.999 +2.935 12 pit

If this is a trend Honda's top management will look miserable...

[mattclinch]

1º 	16 	Jenson Button 		Brawn GP  	00:01'21''140  	 		30
.2º 	11 	Jarno Trulli 		Toyota 	 	00:01'21''852 	00:00'00''712 	37
.3º 	14 	Sebastien Bourdais 	Toro Rosso 	00:01'22''660 	00:00'01''520 	41
.4º 	10 	Mark Webber 		Red Bull 	00:01'22''679 	00:00'01''539 	42
.5º 	9 	Kazuki Nakajima 	Williams 	00:01'22''813 	00:00'01''673 	31
.6º 	8 	Nelson Piquet Jr 	Renault 	00:01'22''839 	00:00'01''699 	27
.7º 	4 	Kimi Raikkonen 		Ferrari 	00:01'23''678 	00:00'02''538 	19
.8º 	20 	Adrian Sutil 		Force India 	00:01'23''956 	00:00'02''816 	39
.9º 	2 	Heikki Kovalainen 	McLaren 	00:01'50''366 	00:00'29''226 	43

crikey..that Brawn has some pace about it. Wasn;t expecting times like that on a first run.