Mercedes W12

[Morteza]

Via @Graftechweb

[zibby43]

AMuS:

[zibby43]

So did merc also spend their tokens on a new gearbox aswell?

Per The Race, Mercedes are also using a 2020 gearbox.

[mkay]

So far, it appears that Mercedes hasn't been able to recover lost downforce due to the new floor regs. Rear of the car is an utter mess at the moment, and for once other teams seem to have stolen a march on them (RB with their tight coke bottle, McLaren with the diffuser strakes).

The chassis just doesn't look impressive when you consider they've had more time to develop it than any other team, having stopped development on the W11 much earlier.

[DarthPlagueisTheVise]

So far, it appears that Mercedes hasn't been able to recover lost downforce due to the new floor regs. Rear of the car is an utter mess at the moment, and for once other teams seem to have stolen a march on them (RB with their tight coke bottle, McLaren with the diffuser strakes).

The chassis just doesn't look impressive when you consider they've had more time to develop it than any other team, having stopped development on the W11 much earlier.

I think they just aren't working the tires properly. It looks really poor on track understeer on entry oversteer on power.....

[OO7]

So far, it appears that Mercedes hasn't been able to recover lost downforce due to the new floor regs. Rear of the car is an utter mess at the moment, and for once other teams seem to have stolen a march on them (RB with their tight coke bottle, McLaren with the diffuser strakes).

The chassis just doesn't look impressive when you consider they've had more time to develop it than any other team, having stopped development on the W11 much earlier.

According to Chandhok, the Mercedes looked the best through T11, was able to brake later than others and carry the speed through. Brundle reckons it was just a tailwind that caught Lewis out. Far too early to state Merc are struggling with D/F. The Mercedes and RB coke bottle solutions are different. I could be way off as I don't have CFD eyes, but I think the Red Bull looks to channel airflow from the top and sides of the sidepods allowing for a deep rear undercut. Mercedes seems to channel airflow from the top and sides of the sidepods, as well as from the engine cover slant. The channelling of engine cover airflow may prevent a similar rear undercut as RB, because of flow detachment under the cooling tunnel exits.

[OO7]

Sergio has also been off track a few times, as well as other cars. It's just track conditions and gusts I think.

[mkay]

So far, it appears that Mercedes hasn't been able to recover lost downforce due to the new floor regs. Rear of the car is an utter mess at the moment, and for once other teams seem to have stolen a march on them (RB with their tight coke bottle, McLaren with the diffuser strakes).

The chassis just doesn't look impressive when you consider they've had more time to develop it than any other team, having stopped development on the W11 much earlier.

According to Chandhok, the Mercedes looked the best through T11, was able to brake later than others and carry the speed through. Brundle reckons it was just a tailwind that caught Lewis out. Far too early to state Merc are struggling with D/F. The Mercedes and RB coke bottle solutions are different. I could be way off as I don't have CFD eyes, but I think the Red Bull looks to channel airflow from the top and sides of the sidepods allowing for a deep rear undercut. Mercedes seems to channel airflow from the top and sides of the sidepods, as well as from the engine cover slant. The channelling of engine cover airflow may prevent a similar rear undercut as RB, because of flow detachment under the cooling tunnel exits.

Chandhok also said that higher rake = better aero performance yesterday, so I tend to take his views with a pinch of salt.

Whilst you might be right, I note the following from F1T's analysis. Suprised that Merc isn't maximising its diffuser volume...

the height of the Mercedes diffuser does not appear maximized. Instead, it appears to taper off towards the rear wheels. That's a first, as teams typically maximise volume in the diffuser, while Mercedes now seem to find more performance with a different design route.

[OO7]

Chandhok also said that higher rake = better aero performance yesterday, so I tend to take his views with a pinch of salt.

Whilst you might be right, I note the following from F1T's analysis. Suprised that Merc isn't maximising its diffuser volume...

the height of the Mercedes diffuser does not appear maximized. Instead, it appears to taper off towards the rear wheels. That's a first, as teams typically maximise volume in the diffuser, while Mercedes now seem to find more performance with a different design route.

I'd give Chandhok the benefit of the doubt on that one, as it's often quite easy to spot differences in car performs while trackside.

The teams actually don't maximise the diffuser volume, which is what enables them to be designed with outwash and upwash curvatures at their exit.

[DinkLv]

Chandhok also said that higher rake = better aero performance yesterday, so I tend to take his views with a pinch of salt.

Whilst you might be right, I note the following from F1T's analysis. Suprised that Merc isn't maximising its diffuser volume...

the height of the Mercedes diffuser does not appear maximized. Instead, it appears to taper off towards the rear wheels. That's a first, as teams typically maximise volume in the diffuser, while Mercedes now seem to find more performance with a different design route.

I'd give Chandhok the benefit of the doubt on that one, as it's often quite easy to spot differences in car performs while trackside.

The teams actually don't maximise the diffuser volume, which is what enables them to be designed with outwash and upwash curvatures at their exit.

I heard from an ex-Brawn GP personnel that lateral diffuser expansion (or the so-called ‘outwash’ concept) was made possible with the introduction of rear brake duct winglets by Brawn GP back in 2009, so that high energy air could be sucked into the gap between the rear wheel and edge of diffuser, making sure enough energy in the air inside the diffuser to be able to expand and attach. Otherwise tyre squirt would be sucked in due to the outwash curvature.

In terms of W12’s design to not maximize height of the outer section of diffuser, I guess it’s a measure to reduce the suction of tyre squirt whilst keeping the flow attached, something that’s used before in GTs (especially 488 GTE) due to the shortened rear brake duct winglets, since it won’t be as powerful in terms of introducing high energy air into the gap.

[Sieper]

So far, it appears that Mercedes hasn't been able to recover lost downforce due to the new floor regs. Rear of the car is an utter mess at the moment, and for once other teams seem to have stolen a march on them (RB with their tight coke bottle, McLaren with the diffuser strakes).

The chassis just doesn't look impressive when you consider they've had more time to develop it than any other team, having stopped development on the W11 much earlier.

According to Chandhok, the Mercedes looked the best through T11, was able to brake later than others and carry the speed through. Brundle reckons it was just a tailwind that caught Lewis out. Far too early to state Merc are struggling with D/F. The Mercedes and RB coke bottle solutions are different. I could be way off as I don't have CFD eyes, but I think the Red Bull looks to channel airflow from the top and sides of the sidepods allowing for a deep rear undercut. Mercedes seems to channel airflow from the top and sides of the sidepods, as well as from the engine cover slant. The channelling of engine cover airflow may prevent a similar rear undercut as RB, because of flow detachment under the cooling tunnel exits.

Chandhok also said that higher rake = better aero performance yesterday, so I tend to take his views with a pinch of salt.

Whilst you might be right, I note the following from F1T's analysis. Suprised that Merc isn't maximising its diffuser volume...

the height of the Mercedes diffuser does not appear maximized. Instead, it appears to taper off towards the rear wheels. That's a first, as teams typically maximise volume in the diffuser, while Mercedes now seem to find more performance with a different design route.

Chandhok seemed to think from trackside the W12 looked best into turn 11. Are you saying that must be disregarded as what he seems to think must be taken with a pinch of salt?

[mkay]

According to Chandhok, the Mercedes looked the best through T11, was able to brake later than others and carry the speed through. Brundle reckons it was just a tailwind that caught Lewis out. Far too early to state Merc are struggling with D/F. The Mercedes and RB coke bottle solutions are different. I could be way off as I don't have CFD eyes, but I think the Red Bull looks to channel airflow from the top and sides of the sidepods allowing for a deep rear undercut. Mercedes seems to channel airflow from the top and sides of the sidepods, as well as from the engine cover slant. The channelling of engine cover airflow may prevent a similar rear undercut as RB, because of flow detachment under the cooling tunnel exits.

Chandhok also said that higher rake = better aero performance yesterday, so I tend to take his views with a pinch of salt.

Whilst you might be right, I note the following from F1T's analysis. Suprised that Merc isn't maximising its diffuser volume...

the height of the Mercedes diffuser does not appear maximized. Instead, it appears to taper off towards the rear wheels. That's a first, as teams typically maximise volume in the diffuser, while Mercedes now seem to find more performance with a different design route.

Chandhok seemed to think from trackside the W12 looked best into turn 11. Are you saying that must be disregarded as what he seems to think must be taken with a pinch of salt?

How long did he observe cars passing through turn 11? Also, cars may be on entirely different programmes right now given the shorter testing schedule.

So far, Mercedes has been the least stable car and it's difficult to argue against that. That being said, yesterday's gearbox issues and resulting lack of proper track time for a baseline setup probably aren't helping.

Can Mercedes replicate McLaren's diffuser trick? Some on reddit think that it may not be possible if the fences are attached to the gearbox casing (as that would require tokens).

[SiLo]

Yeah honestly they lost a lot of running yesterday, the conditions are rubbish and they might be struggling with the tyres initially. Last year they seemed very kind on their tyres and took a while to generate heat in them, might be the same this year but the sand at the track is making it worse.

Most of the rear stability seems to be in slower corner exits, which is mechanically limited rather than aero.

[GioKer32]

Most of the rear stability seems to be in slower corner exits, which is mechanically limited rather than aero.

In my opinion Mercedes problems are not just due to track conditions and/or the time they lost yesterday: this morning Hamilton had BIG oversteer out of both slow and high-speed corners and Valtteri does have the same problem (he has just lost control of his car in turn 11). Furthermore, a mechanic has just put flow viz on the rear wing. That's why I believe they have some aero-related problems at the rear, it's like their rear wing is stalling. I remember Silverstone 2018 when both Williams had to start from the pitlane because they changed the RW which made the diffuser stall. Lastly, from TV it seems like the W12 rear wing had a wide separation zone in the middle which may lead to some instability. I'm not an expert, but there are some clues that make me think their RW is stalling...any thought?

[SiLo]

Most of the rear stability seems to be in slower corner exits, which is mechanically limited rather than aero.

In my opinion Mercedes problems are not just due to track conditions and/or the time they lost yesterday: this morning Hamilton had BIG oversteer out of both slow and high-speed corners and Valtteri does have the same problem (he has just lost control of his car in turn 11). Furthermore, a mechanic has just put flow viz on the rear wing. That's why I believe they have some aero-related problems at the rear, it's like their rear wing is stalling. I remember Silverstone 2018 when both Williams had to start from the pitlane because they changed the RW which made the diffuser stall. Lastly, from TV it seems like the W12 rear wing had a wide separation zone in the middle which may lead to some instability. I'm not an expert, but there are some clues that make me think their RW is stalling...any thought?

If you check some pics from last years car I think they always had that separation line about half way up the wing. Which always seemed odd.