2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[dans79]

Doesn’t sound real optimistic.

You need to keep in mind they filmed this Monday, so they probably haven't even looked at the data in detail at the time of filming.

[dans79]

The only thing I can really glean from all the information out there, is Merc didn’t claw back any of their early-season advantage from last year.

I think it really depends on what they spent their tokens on, and if they actually ran it in testing. Right now, neither the fans, or the press can figure out what Mercedes spend their tokens on. That's saying a lot, because literally everything they would need to spend tokens on that has a performance impact, other than springs and dampers is an external and easily visible component.


I would challenge anyone to go and look at this years technical regulations and then identify what Mercedes spent tokens on...

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -03-05.pdf
Pages 122-136

[zibby43]

The only thing I can really glean from all the information out there, is Merc didn’t claw back any of their early-season advantage from last year.

I think it really depends on what they spent their tokens on, and if they actually ran it in testing. Right now, neither the fans, or the press can figure out what Mercedes spend their tokens on. That's saying a lot, because literally everything they would need spend tokens that has a performance impact, other than springs and dampers is an external and easily visible component.


I would challenge anyone to go and look at this years technical regulations and then identify what Mercedes spent tokens on...

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -03-05.pdf
Pages 122-136

These are all good points. As much as some have wanted to completely rule out the idea of a forthcoming, visually identifiable upgrade, no one has been able to provide a good explanation re: what’s going on with the token spend re: the W12 we’ve seen on track this far.

[basti313]

The only thing I can really glean from all the information out there, is Merc didn’t claw back any of their early-season advantage from last year.

I think it really depends on what they spent their tokens on, and if they actually ran it in testing. Right now, neither the fans, or the press can figure out what Mercedes spend their tokens on. That's saying a lot, because literally everything they would need spend tokens that has a performance impact, other than springs and dampers is an external and easily visible component.


I would challenge anyone to go and look at this years technical regulations and then identify what Mercedes spent tokens on...

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -03-05.pdf
Pages 122-136

These are all good points. As much as some have wanted to completely rule out the idea of a forthcoming, visually identifiable upgrade, no one has been able to provide a good explanation re: what’s going on with the token spend re: the W12 we’ve seen on track this far.

Because it was not on track so far?
They were using a USED tub. I mean...every team like Haas or Alfa or maybe RP...but Merc, the team that goes bullet proof on reliability?

[dans79]

I think it really depends on what they spent their tokens on, and if they actually ran it in testing. Right now, neither the fans, or the press can figure out what Mercedes spend their tokens on. That's saying a lot, because literally everything they would need spend tokens that has a performance impact, other than springs and dampers is an external and easily visible component.


I would challenge anyone to go and look at this years technical regulations and then identify what Mercedes spent tokens on...

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -03-05.pdf
Pages 122-136

These are all good points. As much as some have wanted to completely rule out the idea of a forthcoming, visually identifiable upgrade, no one has been able to provide a good explanation re: what’s going on with the token spend re: the W12 we’ve seen on track this far.

Because it was not on track so far?
They were using a USED tub. I mean...every team like Haas or Alfa or maybe RP...but Merc, the team that goes bullet proof on reliability?

And why would they design a new tub? The last time I can remember them having a tub issue was 2013.

Not to mention you can't get an entirely new tub, only half of one.

[zibby43]

I think it really depends on what they spent their tokens on, and if they actually ran it in testing. Right now, neither the fans, or the press can figure out what Mercedes spend their tokens on. That's saying a lot, because literally everything they would need spend tokens that has a performance impact, other than springs and dampers is an external and easily visible component.


I would challenge anyone to go and look at this years technical regulations and then identify what Mercedes spent tokens on...

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -03-05.pdf
Pages 122-136

These are all good points. As much as some have wanted to completely rule out the idea of a forthcoming, visually identifiable upgrade, no one has been able to provide a good explanation re: what’s going on with the token spend re: the W12 we’ve seen on track this far.

Because it was not on track so far?
They were using a USED tub. I mean...every team like Haas or Alfa or maybe RP...but Merc, the team that goes bullet proof on reliability?

I don't understand what you were trying to say. My point was, a lot of people are saying that they doubt there are any forthcoming updates on the W12, despite also not being able to identify where the tokens were allocated.

They couldn't modify the monocoque without spending tokens, per my understanding of the homologation rules. Aston has a new monocoque for '21.

[mkay]

Doesn’t sound real optimistic.

Yep. It definitely sounds like they're having genuine issues and that there is no miracle solution hidden in a secret lab at Brackley.

Let's hope they can fix it quickly...

Of course, all of the statements in the debrief were made 24 hours after the test. Which is important context.

I just don’t know right now. Can easily see it go either way at the first race, but it’s abundantly clear that they’re not going to be struggling to make Q3. They’re expecting to be right there with RBR.

The only thing I can really glean from all the information out there, is Merc didn’t claw back any of their early-season advantage from last year.

I never said they’d struggle to make Q3; it was a relative comment. They basically just admitted to having lost over half a second to RB in ultimate pace between December and last week. This will obviously make qualifying on harder compounds in Q2 much harder then in years past, for instance.

That said, I’m sure Merc will try their hardest to get themselves out of this hole. Can’t wait for next week.

On the point of tokens, I don’t think top teams have been transparent re: use of tokens so I wouldn’t read too much into Mercedes’ lack of transparency.

[Jolle]

I think it really depends on what they spent their tokens on, and if they actually ran it in testing. Right now, neither the fans, or the press can figure out what Mercedes spend their tokens on. That's saying a lot, because literally everything they would need spend tokens that has a performance impact, other than springs and dampers is an external and easily visible component.


I would challenge anyone to go and look at this years technical regulations and then identify what Mercedes spent tokens on...

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -03-05.pdf
Pages 122-136

These are all good points. As much as some have wanted to completely rule out the idea of a forthcoming, visually identifiable upgrade, no one has been able to provide a good explanation re: what’s going on with the token spend re: the W12 we’ve seen on track this far.

Because it was not on track so far?
They were using a USED tub. I mean...every team like Haas or Alfa or maybe RP...but Merc, the team that goes bullet proof on reliability?

Normally a team uses a new tub for testing and then move that one to being a spare for the first few races of the season. If the design is the same year over year, building a new tub just for testing and as a spare while you have a lightly used same spec tub in the back of the truck is a waste of money, especially with the budget cap in place. So I guess both cars will be on the start grid with a ‘21 build chassis, with two medium fresh ‘20 tubs in the truck as spares. After a few races the tubs will get an upgrade (they always find places to either strengthen and/or lighten the design) and the first two ‘21 tubs will become spare.

[Just_a_fan]

After a few races the tubs will get an upgrade (they always find places to either strengthen and/or lighten the design) and the first two ‘21 tubs will become spare.

Not this year. A change to the tub would be a token spend, wouldn't it? The only reason for changing the tub is if it is damaged in anyway. Then it'll be a new tub of the same specification.

[dans79]

After a few races the tubs will get an upgrade (they always find places to either strengthen and/or lighten the design) and the first two ‘21 tubs will become spare.

Not this year. A change to the tub would be a token spend, wouldn't it?

It would be 4 Tokens.

[JordanMugen]

All I know is that the Mercedes will be a rocket-ship.

How do you know this, when James Vowles said "I don't believe we are going to go into the season finding all the performance that is missing or being ahead"?

James Vowles, team strategist:

We’re fortunate enough to have a lot of footage available to us, as you are at home as well, and it was pretty evident from that that the car was handling poorly. Conversely, the Red Bull looked, what we would call, planted, it was a very stable car, especially through the last sector of the lap.

I think that’s a fair observation, it was visible to the outside, and I’d say the lap times mirrored that as well. But it’s also fair to say that we don’t have answers as we’re sat here now. Huge amounts of data available to us, and now a long journey ahead to try and understand what’s causing that.

Andrew Shovelin, trackside engineering director:

When the wind’s behind the car you lose a lot of downforce because effectively the airspeed is reduced. So some corners, where the wind was behind, it was prone to doing that. Also, the tyres are quite easy to overheat on that circuit, and if you start sliding you tend to lose grip and it gets worse.

Importantly we could see that some of our competitors weren’t struggling in the same way as us, so we need to put quite a focus on understanding why the rear end was a bit weak, how we can get it more stable and predictable. That work is going on now.

Hopefully when we get to the race weekend it won’t be so difficult for the drivers, because they were having to work pretty hard to do the lap times they were doing.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/03/19/me ... -rear-end/

Are Mercedes playing games, or is this the truth?

[dans79]

Are Mercedes playing games, or is this the truth?

It's probably not that Simple!

For example, watch this.

[e30ernest]

I've been really hesitant to watch anything by The Race after 2019, when they've pretty much called the season for Ferrari based on the pre-winter test. They're pretty much as sensationalist as F1 media can get IMO.

[adrianjordan]

I've been really hesitant to watch anything by The Race after 2019, when they've pretty much called the season for Ferrari based on the pre-winter test. They're pretty much as sensationalist as F1 media can get IMO.

I know this sounds like such a small thing, but the way they feel the need to read the title card for each section of some videos puts me off.... I mean I'm quite capable of reading "The Car" or "What went wrong" for example on screen, I don't need it spoon feeding to me.

Also doesn't Gary Anderson work for them? I just find him annoying and, frankly, there are many members on here who seem to have better understanding of contemporary F1 tech than him.

[adrianjordan]

I think Mercedes are genuinely behind, not by much, but enough that this season will be a fight.

That said, Lewis seems to enjoy driving and be at his absolute best when he's chasing a rival down, so maybe fans who want him to stick around are going to get exactly what they want.

Somehow I still can't see anyone other than Lewis and Merc taking the titles, but it won't be the walk in the park many were predicting and might even be a classic season long fight.