2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[holeindalip]

Afaik, sliding is hardly ever a good idea. It heats the surface of the tyres, not the core, possibly causing graining, which, in turn, would make sliding more likely, in a sort of vicious circle that can quickly ruin irreversibly the tyres.

I agree I was debating his das statement as it scrubbed the tires/slides and the mercs look better on the medium rather than the softs...

[ncx]

Afaik, sliding is hardly ever a good idea. It heats the surface of the tyres, not the core, possibly causing graining, which, in turn, would make sliding more likely, in a sort of vicious circle that can quickly ruin irreversibly the tyres.

I agree I was debating his das statement as it scrubbed the tires/slides and the mercs look better on the medium rather than the softs...

Ah, ok, sorry. I think what DAS was doing was more of a controlled 'rolling massage' of the front tyres, which wouldn't only heat the very surface or scrub it. Just my view, anyway.

[dans79]

I think this outlines the real/biggest issue, new tires and not enough testing to figure out the car, or the tires.

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2 ... ualifying/

Lewis Hamilton

The car was feeling good in Q1 and Q2, we took until the last minute trying to find the right set-up and it felt sweet. Just at the end I couldn’t get any more from it but still, it was exciting. I’m immensely proud of everyone. We’ve worked very hard over the last week to try and understand the package that we have. We made some steps forward but we couldn’t compete with that last lap Max did.

Andrew Shovlin

It’s also no secret that we’ve been struggling with the car around this circuit; it’s nowhere near as easy to work with as the W11 but everyone in Brackley and Brixworth has been working hard since the test and we’ve learnt a lot about the W12 and found a more predicable balance, even if we’re lacking overall pace.

It’s hard to read where we are on race pace from the Friday long runs as we didn’t land the car in the right window but we’re fairly confident we’ve improved the rear grip so it will be less of a handful in the race.

[dans79]

Sector 1 +0.023
Sector 2 +0.307
Sector 3 +0.058

Given the sector times I get the feeling as soon as Merc fixes their issue (assuming they can) they will either be ahead or dead equal with RBR.

[zibby43]

It’s just a bad year to need to overhaul your philosophy entirely to compensate for the floor cuts.

Unless this circuit ends up being an outlier, they’re going to have to unlock something quickly and efficiently.

[dans79]

It’s just a bad year to need to overhaul your philosophy entirely to compensate for the floor cuts.

Unless this circuit ends up being an outlier, they’re going to have to unlock something quickly and efficiently.

Considering where lewis was sector timewise, I get the feeling the team dialed in a decent amount of understeer, and maybe a tad bit of rear wing to make the car stable, and then the drivers where being tentative with the throttle application. So I think a lot (maybe all) the time deficit is down to setup. I'd like to try and find mini sector comparison if possible.


I don't think they need to overhaul the philosophy, I think they just need to understand the car and the tires more. If you added up all of preseason testing and fp1 through q3, they've had what would amount to about just the first week of testing from last year. This has never been a great track for them. Also you need to keep in mind a lot of the key aero components aren't homogenized.

[zibby43]

It’s just a bad year to need to overhaul your philosophy entirely to compensate for the floor cuts.

Unless this circuit ends up being an outlier, they’re going to have to unlock something quickly and efficiently.

Considering where lewis was sector timewise, I get the feeling the team dialed in a decent amount of understeer, and maybe a tad bit of rear wing to make the car stable, and then the drivers where being tentative with the throttle application. So I think a lot (maybe all) the time deficit is down to setup. I'd like to try and find mini sector comparison if possible.


I don't think they need to overhaul the philosophy, I think they just need to understand the car and the tires more. If you added up all of preseason testing and fp1 through q3, they've had what would amount to about just the first week of testing from last year. This has never been a great track for them. Also you need to keep in mind a lot of the key aero components aren't homogenized.

I definitely agree re: Bahrain being a weak track, but they lost 2 seconds to themselves in 4 months. That’s concerning, to put it mildly.

There are reports the endothermic engine is not delivering as expected, which has the knock-on effect of the ERS clipping.

They were getting spanked pretty hard by the Honda engine on the telemetry I saw, and RBR were able to run less wing and still dominate S2.

On every single front, the RB16B is the better car right now. Honda knocked it out of the park and RBR 1-upped Merc on the rear suspension setup this year.

I hate to admit it, but the RB looks like a much more developed car right now to the W12, which basically just had a new ‘21 floor and some bargeboard tweaks.

[MKlaus]

still no news on where mercedes spent their tokens? what was all that allison saying it would be known in good time.

[pursue_one's]

Mercedes looking to develop new floor for W12
https://racingnews365.com/mercedes-look ... or-for-w12

[dans79]

There are reports the endothermic engine is not delivering as expected, which has the knock-on effect of the ERS clipping.

Don't listen to the rumors, most of that's nothing more than the media looking for clicks and subscriptions and opposing teams fan boys trying to get their "side" ramped up.

I've found it's far better to look at what the teams personnel is saying, and reading between the lines.

for example.
https://www.racefans.net/2021/03/27/mer ... nda-wolff/

from the article

The M12 power unit is not storing enough energy to be able to fully deploy electrical power when required.

Direct Toto quotes.

“We’re losing a little bit on the engine side in terms of derates,” said Wolff. “We are not yet in a happy place with our energy recovery. But it’s not one single point where we could say this is a big gap.”

“But there’s just no other solution than to recover. And I believe that on the derates that you see just this is something we just need to get on top of. That is not easy, but we’ll get there.”

To me, that doesn't sound like a mechanical issue, that sounds like a software issue that needs to be fixed/adjusted. If it was a mechanical/hardware issue, it wouldn't be something they could "get on top of".

[selvam_e2002]

sorry to mention here: is Honda doing what Ferrari did in 2019? extra oil burning? I suspect Honda's genuine engine power as AT = Ferrari and Mercedes now. I strongly doubt it.

I have no doubt in Mercedes power unit and engine. They will bounce back shortly.

in 2020 they are not great in pre season testing however they had 6 days to recover. in 2021 they had only 3 days and this week race. I strongly believe they will bounce back in next race.

[zibby43]

To me, that doesn't sound like a mechanical issue, that sounds like a software issue that needs to be fixed/adjusted. If it was a mechanical/hardware issue, it wouldn't be something they could "get on top of".

Could be Toto doing some damage control publicly though so he doesn't throw Brixworth completely under the bus.

I think your potential explanation is as equally plausible.

BTW, here are the sub-sectors you requested.

[dans79]

Could be Toto doing some damage control publicly though so he doesn't throw Brixworth completely under the bus.

Possibly, but Merc has always been the team, that you step forward when you screw something up, and then learn and move on.

BTW, here are the sub-sectors you requested.

https://abload.de/img/exggeorw8aape8y5gjta.jpg

That shows some promise, as they are still good in 7,11 & 12. so when under higher aero and lateral load they are doing well.

I suspect they are losing most of their time through 8, 9 & 10, and thus why Lewis was so far down in the middle sector.

[velizare]

Could be Toto doing some damage control publicly though so he doesn't throw Brixworth completely under the bus.

Possibly, but Merc has always been the team, that you step forward when you screw something up, and then learn and move on.

BTW, here are the sub-sectors you requested.

https://abload.de/img/exggeorw8aape8y5gjta.jpg

That shows some promise, as they are still good in 7,11 & 12. so when under higher aero and lateral load they are doing well.

I suspect they are losing most of their time through 8, 9 & 10, and thus why Lewis was so far down in the middle sector.

its the ten, mostly.

[nzjrs]

sorry to mention here: is Honda doing what Ferrari did in 2019? extra oil burning? I suspect Honda's genuine engine power as AT = Ferrari and Mercedes now. I strongly doubt it.

I have no doubt in Mercedes power unit and engine. They will bounce back shortly.

in 2020 they are not great in pre season testing however they had 6 days to recover. in 2021 they had only 3 days and this week race. I strongly believe they will bounce back in next race.

I don't think the consensus is that the 2019 Ferarri secret was oil burning. Maybe fuel accumulation or something more tricky fuel related. Oil burning was 2017 from memory (and Mercedes was arguably the worst offender).