Alpine A521

[Thunder]

Some OT Posts have been moved to the team Thread again. Please stay on Topic Guys or i'll just consider deleting everything OT.

As a reminder, this was me on Page 1:

This is the Alpine A521 offical car thread.

Please discuss ONLY technical items of this car, and refrain from speculation.

General discussion about the team, its drivers and performance can be posted in the team thread.

[Blackout]

Still trying to understand the 2021 cooling changes

It looks like the 2021 sidepod cooling ensemble (radiator + intercooler) has a more rounded shape, so the 2020 one has a straighter outer edge and a more rectangular shape
The drawing depicts the top view : P
So the 2021 sidepod cooling surface isnt necessarily smaller, it's primarily a different shape IMO

motorsport.com - nextgen-auto.com


It's like the difference between the 2019 and the 2019 cooling, where the 2019 intercooler looked more rectangular than the 2018 one
https://i.imgur.com/c1tQ3jB.jpg

[diffuser]

I've searched, unsuccessfully, for better pictures of the 521 without the PU shroud. Think we need a picture from the side. The shot we have now is too much from the front.

[Tooooom]

Still trying to understand the 2021 cooling changes

It looks like the 2021 sidepod cooling ensemble (radiator + intercooler) has a more rounded shape, so the 2020 one has a straighter outer edge and a more rectangular shape
The drawing depicts the top view : P
So the 2021 sidepod cooling surface isnt necessarily smaller, it's primarily a different shape IMO
https://i.imgur.com/binqsnb.jpg
motorsport.com - nextgen-auto.com
https://i.imgur.com/iHmgz6O.jpg

It's like the difference between the 2019 and the 2019 cooling, where the 2019 intercooler looked more rectangular than the 2018 one
https://i.imgur.com/c1tQ3jB.jpg

The sidepod width (white separator on your drawing) really looked a lot shorter than on the rs20. Maybe it looks like it because they removed some of the vertical strakes on the side.

[Blackout]

The sidepod width (white separator on your drawing) really looked a lot shorter than on the rs20. Maybe it looks like it because they removed some of the vertical strakes on the side.

It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison

[mclaren111]

https://racingtech1.wordpress.com/2021/ ... pine-a521/


Interesting...

[JordanMugen]

It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison
https://i.imgur.com/8rQXCRI.png
https://i.imgur.com/l5qUNfg.jpg

What is the benefit of reverting to the previous design?

It seems very strange for Alpine to choose the classical undercut, when nearly every single other team has chosen the overcut downwash sidepods!?

[diffuser]

It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison
https://i.imgur.com/8rQXCRI.png
https://i.imgur.com/l5qUNfg.jpg

What is the benefit of reverting to the previous design?

It seems very strange for Alpine to choose the classical undercut, when nearly every single other team has chosen the overcut downwash sidepods!?

I think they combined the 2. They kept the downwash and added the undercut back in. You'll notice they even added a flaring to the halo in 2021 to help downwash.

[ReoPTy]

It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison
https://i.imgur.com/8rQXCRI.png
https://i.imgur.com/l5qUNfg.jpg

What is the benefit of reverting to the previous design?

It seems very strange for Alpine to choose the classical undercut, when nearly every single other team has chosen the overcut downwash sidepods!?

Totally agree , they look like they have no idea about where to improve , CoG wins over aero each time !

[PhillipM]

No it doesn't. Aero is king in F1. That's why suspension kinematics are compromised as hell for a few percent more downforce.

[Blackout]

It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison
https://i.imgur.com/8rQXCRI.png
https://i.imgur.com/l5qUNfg.jpg

What is the benefit of reverting to the previous design?

It seems very strange for Alpine to choose the classical undercut, when nearly every single other team has chosen the overcut downwash sidepods!?

They tested and compared both sidepod styles for sure.
Maybe their 2020 sidepods, the Renault version of those sidepods*, have reached their development limits and arent very suitable to the 2021 smaller floor...
Maybe the team found out that adding more undercut was easier and less costly for them than to try to slim down their 2020 'RB-style' sidepods, to recover the lost performance...

IMO the last Enstone-Viry projects are very cost-driven, more than their main opponents. They clearly wanna spend the least amount of ressources on these cars and focus on 2022.
That's why many parts are carryovers and are quite old. Covid and the freeze have exacerbated this.

*The Renault 2020 version is a bit 'different' and less slender than others because some features of their PU and the packaging prevent them from having an aggressive downwash shape, and from tapering the top and the sides of their sidepod bodywork (aft the radiator) like others IMO
viewtopic.php?p=959354#p959354
viewtopic.php?p=958931#p958931

AFAIK this is the last team with bulky exhaust manifolds.
Even Ferrari, which has no split, has shrinkwrapped exhaust manifolds (at the expense of some power?)

Motorsport.com - skysports f1

[Tooooom]

Could you quickly give a primer on the relationship between engine structure and the one of the exhaust manifold? And why does the A521 can’t then have them smaller?

[ReoPTy]

IMO the last Enstone-Viry projects are very cost-driven, more than their main opponents. They clearly wanna spend the least amount of ressources on these cars and focus on 2022.
That's why many parts are carryovers and are quite old. Covid and the freeze have exacerbated this.

Every F1 project is cost driven, and teams turned to 2022 , anyway other teams didn't suffer as renault , and lesser budget ones! Alpine has quite difficult times to cope with, especially over aero as a whole !

[diffuser]

Could you quickly give a primer on the relationship between engine structure and the one of the exhaust manifold? And why does the A521 can’t then have them smaller?

I think it's what blackout said. It isn't a can't it's they haven't invested the time and money.

I mean if they would have brought the 2022 PU with a front compressor in this year and they could have done whatever.

Exhausts are tuned to specific lengths but they don't have to be on the side of the ICE.

RBR tuck them in under the ICE.

[Pany]

I strongly think only 3 teams are full aware and convinced of the aero main concept. Mercedes with low rake based philosophy and redbull mclaren with flexible high rake concept. All other teams just go in between or try to copy. Renault, Aston and ferrari are doing good work in aero details but it appear they never decided fully which concept to adopt, since 5 years. If yoi keep like this, you will always be back. Hybrid selutions are good, but not for winning titles. You have to master the general car aero and dynamic design with full awareness of where you want to go.

Could you quickly give a primer on the relationship between engine structure and the one of the exhaust manifold? And why does the A521 can’t then have them smaller?

I think it's what blackout said. It isn't a can't it's they haven't invested the time and money.

I mean if they would have brought the 2022 PU with a front compressor in this year and they could have done whatever.

Exhausts are tuned to specific lengths but they don't have to be on the side of the ICE.

RBR tuck them in under the ICE.